Rwd + Wet Conditions = Argh!

[Calisto]

Fishtailed a couple of time this week :( both whilst going round a roundabout at low speeds.

Scary stuff :shutit:

Is it the car?

The road surface

The weather conditions (lashing it down)

or just what RWD cars do best?

[T V O R]

All of the above

[Parts-King]

When the MR2' SW20's first came out, we had loads of people losing them on roundabouts and crashing them. It was usually down to the tyres being very low on tread. They go right off handling if the tread is too worn (and I dont mean worn out but worn down)

Kingo

[Fizz]

Things to check...

Correct Tyre Pressures & Condition of tyres and ensure that the rears are identicle brands. To be honest its adviseable that all 4 tyres should be the same brand to maintain balanced grip levels on all four corners..

Also were you coming off the gas when you had the twitch? Try to maintain speed round corners in bends as there is less chance of weight shift from one side of the car to the other and in turn less chance of it destabilising. :)

[cfc1]

It is a mixture of everything you stated Ash and Parts King is only too right about the tyres, get them checked out and if they are lower or on 3mm get them changed if funds allow.. also worth pointing out that mixing the tyres isn't a good idea on the MR2 either.. try to keep all 4 tyres the same make and model.

At work we had had a few customers complaining that they have lost control of their cars.. incl a 4x4 driver.. I don't about your area, but up where I am most of the roads are treacherous with a greasy film due to the rain.

I would also stop wearing those lead boots for driving in the rain ;)

Edit: Just noticed Fizz' reply...

Lift Off Oversteer is most certainly a problem for RWD cars, don't go into corners at a speed where you will need to slow down.. it's the slowing down that can cause the back end to step out.

[McLovin]

im going to be blunt, if you are fishtailing in the dry or wet with a rwd car, be it 158bhp or 400bhp, then it is NOT the car, tyres, conditions, road surface, its your driving style for those conditions. The mr2 needs to be provoked to get the rear end out, and will not fishtail at low speeds by taking it easy.

[samsite999]

i would argue that mc loven

I class my self as a competent driver and have spent a lot of time on motorbikes, 4wd cars, rwd cars fwd cars. and am very aware of road conditions.

the mr2 has let go with out warning on 2 occasions and though no faulght of my own. both were on islands outside garages. Even suspecting diesel on the road and changing driving style and speed before getting there. the back end still let go

on the flip side 99.9999% of the time. the mr2 is a very predictable car and will do exactly what you want it to. on most occasions with good tyers it will take a lot of effort to make it drift

[mister_mo]

I have to agree with McLovin,

If you drive sensible and not stand on the gas you'll have no problems at all.

i've driven turbos in all weather rain snow ice you name it with new tyres old tyres in between tyres and never had a moment that i didn't expect or provoke.

light smooth manovers and throttle application, is the name of the game, it's all about respect!!

Mo

[Calisto]

Being an Auto shouldn't make a difference either then? ;)

[mister_mo]

nope not at all

you are the one who dictates how much throttle is applied and when!,

or cos it's an auto does that mean it accelerates. steers and brakes for you??

There really is no excuse for losing the back end in bad conditions other than driver error, or not adapting your driving style to the current surroundings.

Mo

[T V O R]

Did you see the Silverstone race last weekend? Some drivers were going round bends in the wet sideways and some made it stick, it’s all down to your right foot and your cars capabilities!

[System~G]

Having driven all marques of MR2 on road and track, the MKII is probably the worst for the rear to step out.

TDF's (taiwanese ditch finders = poor quality tyres) are generally the main "mechanical" reason for the rear to step out in the damp/wet.

Damp conditions are far worse for mechanical grip than outright wet.

And obviously if there's been deisel or oil dropped on the surface, it's not going to have helped.

Driver error/cackyness is the next big reason for the rear to step out.

Someone mentioned lift-off-oversteer - This manovre is usually done on purpose in a bid to reduce understeer or to encourage oversteer by a BIG lift from WOT. In damp/wet road conditions, lifting obviously doesn't help because of weight transfer & what little traction may be left etc...

You really shouldn't be practicing the technique on the road (wet or dry), it usually ends in tears

Also for what it's worth - I have seen more FF cars stuffed into pit/tyre walls due to poor lift-off oversteer attempts than MR cars

Being smooth/gentle with the steering will help, quick movements will just cause it to be worse/step out further.

Get some decent tyres on the car - Goodyear F1 or Toyo Proxes - avoid the TDF's (Nankang, Falken, Kumho etc)

[JappyBeast]

I had a scary moment a few years back where I spun all the way round. I slagged the car off and then noticed both rear tyres were bald!!

I take care going round bends even with good tyres.

[Jimlad]

I crashed my mr2 twice.

The first time, alot of damage, the second not so much.

Both times I spun the car.

1st was due to greasy roads on a tight corner and too much right foot. 2nd time was due to lifting off mid corner.

Check your tyres etc like other have said.

Don't lift off mid corner and don't brake hard mid corner... it'll make the mr2 do all weird sort of things.

[BenyG]

I have very recently passed my test and I am thinking of treating myself to get a Toyota MR2 G Limited. I have just turned 25 so the insurance is not as horrific as you would expect. My concern is RWD - is it dangerous for a newly qualified driver to even touch one of these? I know someone who has had a MR2 roadster for years and it has never fish-tailed for them - but *she* is a female so perhaps she is just very very very careful.

I would be very interested to hear what people think - whether or not a newly-qualified 25-year-old should stay clear of RWD cars.

Thanks, Ben

[MsB]

I have very recently passed my test and I am thinking of treating myself to get a Toyota MR2 G Limited. I have just turned 25 so the insurance is not as horrific as you would expect. My concern is RWD - is it dangerous for a newly qualified driver to even touch one of these? I know someone who has had a MR2 roadster for years and it has never fish-tailed for them - but *she* is a female so perhaps she is just very very very careful.

I would be very interested to hear what people think - whether or not a newly-qualified 25-year-old should stay clear of RWD cars.

Thanks, Ben

You've got to start somewhere Ben so I can't see why you shouldn't go for the car you want.

TBH as the guys have said its all down to various factors and as long as those factors are ok then there shouldn't be a problem. You should soon learn the limits and be able to predict what the car will do & when & how hard you can push before something 'fun' (or not so much fun) does happen - having the geometry sorted to suit your driving style helps too, and it can be adjusted as you get more confident with the cars power & handling

[Fizz]

Personally speaking, i would say no... The Celica GT as a first car for me at the age of 23 was a big learning curve in itself. The power difference between that and the Corolla 1.6 which i was sharing with my mum for a couple of years was very noticeable.

I would suggest a FWD car first before getting in a MR2. You need to get to be confident with basic driving skills so it becomes second nature before getting in a MR2.

All this is totally of my opinion though but then i am speaking from experience.

[StevenstonWullie]

im quite new to the joys of mr2 driving i have a 95 rev 3 tubby. i had a close call coming out of a roundabout on to an incline i had a car right on my tail and stupidly floored it in second exiting OMG it began to zig zag managed to bring it back into line ok but lesson learned i treat it with a lot more respect now. i guess you deffo need to be sensible especially in the wet........

[taylor_gtz]

TDF's (taiwanese ditch finders = poor quality tyres) are generally the main "mechanical" reason for the rear to step out in the damp/wet.

Nankang nx500's are the cheapest tyre you can buy for the MR2's standard wheels...... and also the worst.

all the mr2's i've had all came with these tyres. which frankly, are a death trap in the wet.

Buy some better tyres & dont power down hard into corners in the wet......

someone wise once said to me

"enter the corner at the speed you want to exit"

which in an mr2, makes perfect sense.

dont lift off!!! ;)

[Karma Supra]

Fishtailed a couple of time this week :( both whilst going round a roundabout at low speeds.

Scary stuff :!Removed!:

Is it the car?

The road surface

The weather conditions (lashing it down)

or just what RWD cars do best?

Its the driver!!!! Sorry...

A few years back I was skint I ran a Mk2 UK MR2 with tyres down to the canvas.... in winter... not advisable I know (or legal for that matter)but it was either that or not get to work... I never had any problems.. it twitched a bit but I drove acordingly as it was fine. MR2s are great handling cars, - just unforgiving if you make a mistake! The problem is we are of a generation of FWD drivers, mot people these days don't know how to handle a RWD car, let alone a mid engined one... through no fault of their own!

TDF's (taiwanese ditch finders = poor quality tyres) are generally the main "mechanical" reason for the rear to step out in the damp/wet.

Get some decent tyres on the car - Goodyear F1 or Toyo Proxes - avoid the TDF's (Nankang, Falken, Kumho etc)

Sorry I disagree. Kuhmo tyres are actually very good, the KU-31 is excellent infact, and in independant road tests has frequently out done much more expensive "big brand" they are also !Removed! good in the wet (especially stable in standing water), as my Nurburging trip proved earlier this year!

I am about to replace the Pirelli tyres on my M3 with a set of KU-31s... 245 at the front 275 at the back :D

Milly is also going to equip her SW-20 with the same tyres, as she had them on her supra turbo and loved the grip/feel. infact as soon as she went to michelin pilots, she stuffed it in the wet!

My only gripe is that as more people begin to realise they are !Removed! good and are switch over, the price is going up!

[Steve-O 2006]

Never had a problem with my Mk2 Turbo in the wet on corners or roundabouts. But could be to do with my cars setup eg Coilovers, wide tyres, lowered, Aftermarket LSD etc?

Only been driving for about 3.5 years, My first car was a Merc 190E 1.8 and I went straight to a lightly modded mk2 Turbo, As you would expect the power is alot different, 250 - 280 bhp compaired to the mercs 110bhp or what ever it was :D.

Only problem I had was on a slippy wet straight when boost kicked in and I started fish tailing a bit but it soon corrected itself :)

[AceAceBaby]

Hmm. The wheels I have on at the moment came with nankangs on three and some other random on the other (front). I have never, yet, in rain or shine had anything remotely feeling like a car about to lose grip. Never say never, I know, but the tyres seem fine. These are on standard wheels and tyre sizes.

[JustJJ]

I have spun the car before... driver error going into a roundabout too fast.. too high a gear and in wet conditions... hold my hand up to that...

But I had the '2 fishtail on the M6/M56 slip road while I was contentedly minding my own business, not speeding or being a silly ****

Got to the garage to find tyre pressure was low, had a puncture and rear shock was leaking... so just pays to be aware, yes maybe 9 times out of 10 it is the driver... but you have to keep an eye on the car too

[Andie_M]

rwd = be careful in wet!!!!

nothing wrong with some sideways action.... but be careful troops!!!! B)

[AceAceBaby]

Driver, car maintenance, tire pressures, yes. I did a track day at Croft last weekend. I had improved the front by fitting the wheels with mighty "Ambassador" tires on, the rears kept the Nankangs (I have some Hankooks, but they're not directional, though the pattern looks directional, so I didn't like the idea). I couldn't say that they gripped as well as better tires would, but importantly, to me, they were predictable, and stable. The Jim Clark Esses were covered in leaves for the first few laps, and the whole track was "mildly moist", and I never felt like the car was going to turn around and bite me. Accelerating through Hawthorn, I could feel it getting lively, all four wheels slipping a little, but never anything suggesting a sudden snap. I've never had any problem with roundabouts, in any weather, either. Maybe I am just a slow-poke :)