Is This Too Good To Be True - Or Should I Get It ?

[jechto]

now please tell me - WTF !

look at the price - u guys thing i should go for it ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=2451983911

[97paseo]

If that's the actual item in the pic there's no way that'll fit a Paseo, the box is the wrong shape.

Mind you I'm talking 2gen, although I'd imagine the 1st Gen is the same.

[starletsy]

It's a universal muffler so won't bolt straight on will need some work to get it to fit.

Simon

[toyotasera.co.uk]

and probably won't improve the car at all...

[Paseo2nr]

That's defo going to be a weld-on job, which means not only are you going to have to buy it, pay for shipping, and hope it gets to you alright, but then you'll have to find a shop to cut your stock off and weld on an adaptor, hangar, and the new box. The cheapest quote i've ever gotten was $30, but I'm replacing all the piping, so I nixed that idea. Good price, tho.

[bmxnbrothaman]

and probably won't improve the car at all...

thank you, glad we know this here. Basically the hope would be that that thing wouldn't loose too much backpressure, which is more harm than good for a 4 cyl, so basically you want what looks and sounds good, but I gotta say, !Removed! cans don't do either (sorry everyone with a can style muffler, but you gotta lose that mess...) hook up a magnaflow or something. (I personally prefer flowmaster over all other companys out there, so I'm going flowmaster 60 series)

[Jamesb4uk]

havent had a close look but from memory the 2nd gen exhaust is different to the 1st...

e-mail them & ask what year paseo its for.

J

[bmxnbrothaman]

can almost gaurantee that doesn't matter. since it's just a mullfer, the in/out sizes are all that matters, and the in is 2.5" on that, and toyota knows better than to take that much backpressure from a 1.5 liter 100 hp (or in your guys' case, 115) engine, so you'll need to put a reducer on there to make it work either way

[Paseo2nr]

He's exactly right, the can's a universal muffler, but having "paseo" in the name is a selling strategy, so that people will see it and automatically think it is manufactured for their particular car, they usually have the names of multiple cars in them, so that they will show up in more searches.

[bmxnbrothaman]

I'm feeling inspired, so this will be long:

basically, you need to figure out how much backpressure you can lose. I know you can base it loosely on horsepower and displacement, but I don't know how to do it, sorry. Check this out, here's my idea once hotshot has their header legal for California use. At that time, I want to have a 5e-fhe engine, AEM cold air intake, nology hotwires, denso or NGK (any advise?) Iridium plugs, an ASP lightweight pulley, an Aasco lightweight flywheel, ACT clutch (not that that factors in, but since I'm listing the rest of the swap I'm doing right now, why not. Bought a transmission too, wanted starlet, but wound up just going stock) Hotshot header, catco catylitic converter and flowmaster 60 series muffler. okay, so that's about 150 hp at the crank, 128 at the wheels. Not a lot of power, (although in a car as light a car as the Seo... OMG, this is going to be fun!!!!!!!!) so the exhaust is going to be small, you would be a fool to put 2.5" on that in my opinion. So here's the way I figure it, knowing what you change to when you get forced induction, and knowing what most 4cyls, 6 cyls, and 8 cyls have. Stock is 1.75, designed for a car just over 100 hp, with a cat that isn't excessivly restrictive, and the muffler seems to be the same. The exhaust manifold however, I hear is pretty restrictive. So now say I do this, which is my plan: go with the hotshot headers, a 2" cat with reducers at the front and back (which ought to actually help me with emissions) and a 2" muffler designed for the proper flow on an import car, although in this case it's going to be too big for the car it's going on, so it would be the same as a high flow muffler, so reducers on the front and back of that and a bit of an exhaust pipe, and now I've reduced the back pressure enough to make a significant power gain, and the torque, which backpressure helps, shouldn't be hurt much at all. The way I see it, I'm pretty sure higher horsepower sport compacts, I.E. rsx/integra, use 2" piping for their 160-175 hp engines (somewhere in there) and that's going to be with a muffler that's not going to flow as well as a flowmaster, a restrictive exhaust manifold, and a restrictive catylitic converter, but it's designed to give the best balance of torque and power for a good push off the line for driving exitement, a good pull up a hill and good gas milage for practicality, and good power on flat land after the launch to further driving excitment. Now a 1.75" exhaust with high flow parts ought to compair with a 2" with restrictive parts. So I'm going that route to save money and get a good balance of torque and power. Now, you could go 2 with high flow crap, and make a higher power gain, but reduce torque, or go 2.25" and make a bit higher power gain, and reduce torque more. How fast do you want to get off the line, and how deep do you want to be on the throttle to go up a hill? Faster you want to be there, the thinner the tubes you want. How fast do you want to accelerate when you get to higher RPMs? the faster, the more open it should be. How much power do you have? The more, the more open. I would say on flat land, look into 2" at probably 120 at the wheel, and 2.25 at like 130.

if you need to know what you have, these are my impressions of a general rule of thumb for import cars

5e-fhe: 115 at the crank,

5e-fe: 100 at the crank

lightwieght pulley: 10

lightweight flywheel: 10

True CAI and high flow filter: 10

shortram and high flow filter: 5

Iridium plugs: 1

less than iridium: 0

spark plug wires: 1

good spark plug wires (magnicore) 2

very good spark plug wires (nology) 3-5

high flow cat: 2

excessivly high flow cat:0

high flow muffer: 2

excessivly high flow muffler: 0

header: 10

add what you have up, and take off 15%, and that should be your wheel horsepower, plus or minus a few since these are rules of thumb, and plus or minus a few more due to engine age.

Now a lot (not nearly all) of what I just wrote has been pieced together off impressions and half explantions using logic and educated guesses. If you know for sure that I got something wrong here, let me know. if you don;t really know and are a bit leery of that warning: don't worry, I'm rearely corrected by the tech archives-of-knowledge at paseopimp.com, so I must have done some damn good deduction...

[DazH]

I'm feeling inspired, so this will be long:

Ya got me convinced

Certainly don't have the mods you're talkin about on mine but, when I got the cat back system made up, it was by a guy I know through work. He'd made up systems for us and we'd sell em on to our customers. Well respected workmanship too. Anyway I just said I'd go with his recomendations. He knew at the time it was just gettin basic induction kit, Iridium plugs etc and said he'd go for 2 inch bore cat back as the standard exhaust manifold and cat just needed to be freed up a bit and wouldn't recommend goin any more than that as there would be too much a loss of back pressure!

I hope that backs up your claims

It's meant to anyway

BTW, NGK or Denso? in my opinion it's down to personal preference on these as they're both crackin quality. I only went for NGK cos place where I work sell em, so I get em cheap :P

[Paseo2nr]

Where's Cris when you need him? He advised me to go with the 2.25" custom work, and he is generally regarded as "Mr. Wisdom" when is comes to Paseo physics, so I might consult him, not that Bmx is wrong or anything. I asked Cris because i was concerned about losing backpressure. Now that I think about it tho, he may have been referring to what I would need in case of a turbo conversion.

[toyotasera.co.uk]

The 5E-FHE is 108bhp at flywheel. I don't agree with the power increases for each individual item.

A target figure for a well worked n/a engine is 100bhp per litre. Most cars don't make this at all, even with a turbo. With gas flowing and porting of the cylinder head, an increased compression ratio, balancing of all rotating masses, balancing of con rods and pistons, you may get one of these engines to produce a good 148-150bhp - but not with bolt on goodies...

As for exhaust - the header is the most restrictive. Toyota got the port lengths way off, but the diameter is spot on - I've measured the 5E-FHE manifold and done the calculations...

Andrew

[bmxnbrothaman]

I hope that backs up your claims

It's meant to anyway

yep, within a few hp.

[bmxnbrothaman]

Where's Cris when you need him?

Now that I think about it tho, he may have been referring to what I would need in case of a turbo conversion.

been wondering the same thing for weeks

I bet so, because that's what he's going for when he gets his turbo

[bmxnbrothaman]

The 5E-FHE is 108bhp at flywheel. I don't agree with the power increases for each individual item.

A target figure for a well worked n/a engine is 100bhp per litre. Most cars don't make this at all, even with a turbo. With gas flowing and porting of the cylinder head, an increased compression ratio, balancing of all rotating masses, balancing of con rods and pistons, you may get one of these engines to produce a good 148-150bhp - but not with bolt on goodies...

As for exhaust - the header is the most restrictive. Toyota got the port lengths way off, but the diameter is spot on - I've measured the 5E-FHE manifold and done the calculations...

Andrew

gonna sound like I'm flaming you. I'm not, but I'm not feeling you...

108? are you sure you're not talking kw? because EVERYONE I've talked to and several spec sheets I've seen say 115 hp at the crank. and my understanding is that bhp is brake horsepower by the way, and I said 128 hp at the wheel 150 at the crank, and the 4e-fte makes 135, 5hp over 100 per liter @1.3 liters. What do you say each should be for those mods?

Mediater please?? WHERE THE HELL IS CRIS????? Paseo2nr, go knock on his door damn it.

[Paseo2nr]

That w :censor: r's on holiday in Florida with his new girlfriend. He said I could come along as his personal photographer, but only if I fit in a checked suitcase. I decided to pass.

[bmxnbrothaman]

damn that :censor: . Well I'm happy for him and his new girl with what happened with his last, wish he would holla though, I need tech support (still not sure if I can bore into a 5e-fhe's intake and fit on an EGR, I guess I'm just going to have to try...)

Edited language

Edited January 6, 2004 by starletsy

[toyotasera.co.uk]

gonna sound like I'm flaming you. I'm not, but I'm not feeling you...

108? are you sure you're not talking kw? because EVERYONE I've talked to and several spec sheets I've seen say 115 hp at the crank. and my understanding is that bhp is brake horsepower by the way, and I said 128 hp at the wheel 150 at the crank, and the 4e-fte makes 135, 5hp over 100 per liter @1.3 liters. What do you say each should be for those mods?

Mediater please?? WHERE THE HELL IS CRIS????? Paseo2nr, go knock on his door damn it.

The 5E-FHE, as fitted to the Sera gives a maximum power output of 110ps (metric horsepower pherdestraken) at 6400rpm. which is 108bhp (brake horsepower) or about 80kw at the flywheel/crank. Information as given by Toyota in my set of 5E-FHE workshop manuals

The 4E-FTE is not normally aspirated, so the benchmark of 100hp/l is less valid.

It also develops 135ps which is 133bhp (do the math), not 135.5bhp.

Are your spec sheets you have seen official Toyota ones or ones from rolling roads which measure torque at wheels and nothing else. Power at wheels is one calculation away from torque at wheels, but power and torque at flywheel are derived by a number of assumptions and calculations and are often inaccurate. The only way to know the true power at flywheel is to put it on an engine dyno testing rig in laboratory conditions which is expensive (roughly US$ 150 / hour)

As for each power increase, the figures you give are possibly correct for a Skyline which basically has a detuned race developed engine, but not for a small capacity four pot from Toyotas economy range of engines.

[Jamesb4uk]

would just like to point out that cris hasnt had a vacation for a while. & has gone through a lot recently...

he'll be back in a couple of weeks i think.

J

[emicen]

Lightweight flywheel doesnt actually give horsepower, it just makes the engine rev faster and possibly marginally reduces the transmission losses through a lower reciprocating mass.

The lightweight pulley, good for maybe 5hp on a engine that size, have we thought about how they can destroy and engine though, since 99% of aftermarket suppliers dont bother thinking about the dampener for the pulley?

10hp on a CAI will be a push as well for an engine that size.

Not trying to ***** on anyones bonfire but I am trying to bring the numbers down to scale.