T180 Safety

[RaverT180]

Hi Guys,

My 2006 T180 manual states that you can drive 100 miles at maximum 55 mph on a punctured run flat tyre. In a letter dated July 17th from Toyota GB they state, "....should you suffer a puncture, you can still travel on that tyre for approximately 50 miles at a speed of 50 mph and then this gives the driver the opportunity to attend a Toyota centre in order that the tyre can be repaired".

I have today spoken to Kirk at Bridgestone, and he has confirmed that the 50 miles at 50 mph is correct, although basically, you can do a bit more.

I have had a safety recall concerning rubber mats slipping under the pedals (no s**t sherlock!!!!!) even though I never had these fitted, but my safety notification concerning lower speed and half the mileage on a deflated run flat, seems to have got lost in the post :!Removed!:

Whilst on the dreaded RFT subject I would just mention that if any of you need details or have concerns on this issue, you contact Kirk at Bridgestone Tyres, I think his mobile number appears somewhere on this forum under the run flat topics. Kirk has been most helpful to me and I now have an alternative independant tyre dealer in my area to fit these Bridgestone RFT's at what I am hoping, will be considerably less than the exhorbitant costs charged by my local Toyota dealer. If any of you have a problem with these tyres I strongly recommend that you contact Kirk who is a really nice guy. He has allayed some of my concerns.

Honest, I'm not getting a backhander from Bridgestone lol.

Best regards and safe motoring

John

[hertsnminds]

I have today spoken to Kirk at Bridgestone, and he has confirmed that the 50 miles at 50 mph is correct

How many places are there in Europe that are more than 50 miles away from an authorised repair centre? Hundreds, thousands, millions, is there more chance of winning the lottery than being in the right place when you get a puncture?

[duncerduncs]

When it comes to driving in Europe, Kirk has confirmed that there are Bridgestone centres in Europe plus you obviously have Toyota dealers as well (which are pre-loaded onto the sat-nav disk).

As for "what happens if I'm miles away from anywhere?" Isn't it the same with any car (whether it has run flats, can of gunk or space saver)?

[MarsKy]

When it comes to driving in Europe, Kirk has confirmed that there are Bridgestone centres in Europe plus you obviously have Toyota dealers as well (which are pre-loaded onto the sat-nav disk).

As for "what happens if I'm miles away from anywhere?" Isn't it the same with any car (whether it has run flats, can of gunk or space saver)?

No - it's not the same - if you have a puncture with normal run flats, gunk or spacesaver, you should be able to go to a garage and get it repaired relatively quickly, and cheaply.

The Bridgestone's with support ring means even if you get to a garage, it looks like several lost days for a repair as they don't seem to be prepared for it, and you end up paying through the nose.

As an aside, I was told by my dealer that with the Toyota RAC cover, even if I was more than the 50 miles away with a puncture, the RAC would get me to a garage anyway. Anyone confirm this?

If Toyota could confirm RAC European cover for transfer to a Toyota/ Bridgestone garage, and same day repair, then this would go some way to placating me being peeved off with the current setup.

[Hoovie]

If you look at the Club Toyota details, it says you are covered for recovery if the vehicle cannot be repaired at the roadside. It also states that if it cannot be repaired in a reasonable time, you will be provided with a free replacment vehicle for 48 hours or one nights Hotel + Breakfast for all occupants up to £500, or up to £500 to cover you for your own arrangements for on-going travel.

And the above is in Europe as well as UK.

As the car with run-flats is as provided by Toyota and a puncture occurs further then 50 miles away from a suitable tyre replacement centre then the first bit kicks in as it cannot be repaired at the roadside and if there is no replacement available that day, then the second part kicks in as the car cannot be repaired in a reasonable time.

That is how I would interpret it in both the case of a RunFlat and a gunky-repair wheel.

I have a RAV4 spare wheel, so if I had a puncture, I would use the spare, but if I had another puncture before I had the chance of getting that first one fixed, I would call on this cover with no hesitation.

[duncerduncs]

As for "what happens if I'm miles away from anywhere?" Isn't it the same with any car (whether it has run flats, can of gunk or space saver)?

No - it's not the same - if you have a puncture with normal run flats, gunk or spacesaver, you should be able to go to a garage and get it repaired relatively quickly, and cheaply.

The facts are quite simple, an owner with any car fitted with any tyre could find themselves waiting for a replacement tyre!

A friend at work had to run at 45mph on his space saver for 3 days, as he couldn't find a garage who stocked his tyre :)

I'll agree that the tyres themselves aren't cheap, but as we now know, the number of places able to fit them is growing and there are other similarly priced car with tyres that are just expensive

[MarsKy]

The idea that someone runs about for 3 days makes it somehow okay for everyone else to be doing the same doesn't work. All my cars in the last 10 years (Jeep Cherokee, RAV4 STAX, MAZDA6 4WD) have all had punctures and have had same day repair, and for under a tenner. Even replacement tyres came in the same day (and the Mazda was an awkward bu**er).

The Bridgestone's with support ring put you at an extreme disadvantage - there is no repair, only expensive replacement. Take your T180 to the Scottish isles and get yourself a puncture. See if the RAC will get you onto a trailer, and onto a ferry, and across to Inverness for it to be left at the nearest Toyota dealer for several days, and with a bill for £160-£300+, never mind all the lost time and expense associated with it. A puncture should be a relatively cheap and simple thing to recover from (unless it's in the sidewall).

The facts are quite simple - Toyota produced a vehicle with unique tyres which ties the owner to Toyota/ Bridgestone. They could have provided conventional run flats which all other manufacturers make use of, and which have a wider user base - keeps the costs down and increases availability (when I bought my T180, I knew about the run flats, but I was never told they were unconventional, i.e. support ring). The run flats could even have been an option rather than being standard.

Are the number of places which fit them growing? Are the likes of Kwik Fit, etc., racing to buy expensive equipment just to support the RAV4 and its Bridgestones? I suspect not.

[RaverT180]

Guys, let's not beef amongst ourselves, the simple fact is, that if we were to take a straw pole amongst all of us, what would you want, run flat tyres of any description or 4 conventional tyres with a 5th stuck on the back door........... For the past 15 years I have been happy to take cars over to France with the knowledge, should I need a replacement/repair I have a new tyre which will enable me to get to my destination and effect a suitable repair. Similiarly, the trailer carries a conventional spare wheel in the event of emergencies. Never, ever, any gut wrenching concern that I may suffer deflation as I do with the T180 driving abroad.

I feel that the situation for us poor b*****d's stuck with T180s is not so bad as recently anticipated, I would again direct you to Kirk at Bridgestone, who can supply details of your local independant tyre dealers and I would guess, if you care anticipating a trip abroad, details of your nearest Bridgestone SSR etc. dealers along your route.

Best Regards

John

[Parts-King]

Where does this myth that you can only get a tyre at your local dealer come from? The tyre is available from any wholesaler. The tyre can be fitted at any supplier. The problem comes with A: You need to change the donut and you need the equipment and B: Resetting the TPS monitors, which are both a pig to do. The tyres are not monopolised to Toyota/Bridgestone

Kingo

[RaverT180]

If you look at the Club Toyota details, it says you are covered for recovery if the vehicle cannot be repaired at the roadside. It also states that if it cannot be repaired in a reasonable time, you will be provided with a free replacment vehicle for 48 hours or one nights Hotel + Breakfast for all occupants up to £500, or up to £500 to cover you for your own arrangements for on-going travel.

And the above is in Europe as well as UK.

As the car with run-flats is as provided by Toyota and a puncture occurs further then 50 miles away from a suitable tyre replacement centre then the first bit kicks in as it cannot be repaired at the roadside and if there is no replacement available that day, then the second part kicks in as the car cannot be repaired in a reasonable time.

That is how I would interpret it in both the case of a RunFlat and a gunky-repair wheel.

I have a RAV4 spare wheel, so if I had a puncture, I would use the spare, but if I had another puncture before I had the chance of getting that first one fixed, I would call on this cover with no hesitation.

Hoovie, agree with your comments however, yeah, it's lovely pontificating when you've got a 5th wheel on the back door!!! Done 15 years over to France twice a year with my 4.2 GX etc., and never bricking it cos I knew I could simply go to any local tyre dealer for repair/replacement. However, with the T180 they are unique tyres, when you look at bombing down the A13 to the Loire Valley and given the distance between cities, it does not leave you with a warm cosy feeling, in the event of deflation, and you have to call on Club Toyota to stick you car on the back of a low-loader, when with convential tyres, you just stick the spare on, with no friggin about with overnight stops in hotels etc. etc. etc..

On a more jocular note, my fiance really, really, loves your avatar, as we are both cat lovers, where can we get it mate or one similar? !!!!!

Best Regards

John

[anchorman]

Where does this myth that you can only get a tyre at your local dealer come from? The tyre is available from any wholesaler. The tyre can be fitted at any supplier. The problem comes with A: You need to change the donut and you need the equipment and B: Resetting the TPS monitors, which are both a pig to do. The tyres are not monopolised to Toyota/Bridgestone

Kingo

Kingo

I recently visited my local tyre dealer. He's well respected and most people go to him around here. I asked him for prices for RAV4 run flats mainly in case he could be of help to some of the local owners. he said he knew exactly which tyre I meant and that he had been told by Bridgestone that he could not have them as they were sold exclusively to Toyota. He proffered this information without me giving any background info.

It is only since we have been talking about cartels and monopolies that this guy Kirk from Bridgestone has come forward. He seems a perfectly nice guy and seems willing to put the cards on the table but there is a lot to lose. If such an agreement exists or ever existed the OFT will come down on both parties like a ton of bricks. I still haven't seen the promised list of "nationwide independant distributors" for these run flats. Has anyone else? Does anybody know of a single independant or national distributor that can supply and fit these tyres?

[RaverT180]

Where does this myth that you can only get a tyre at your local dealer come from? The tyre is available from any wholesaler. The tyre can be fitted at any supplier. The problem comes with A: You need to change the donut and you need the equipment and B: Resetting the TPS monitors, which are both a pig to do. The tyres are not monopolised to Toyota/Bridgestone

Kingo

WHAT MYTH?

The simple fact remains that us T/SR180 owners have this particular system fitted as standard. After correspondence with Toyota GB the implications are that we will void our warranties if we choose to adopt any alternative RFT system or standard tyre. Your obvious expertise in this area would be greatly appreciated in respect of any other soft wall RFT that will comply with this Bridgestone system, and in particular, we would appreciate your expertise concerncing the effects that such alternatives may have on ride comfort, stability once deflated, general safety and compliance with the standard suspension set up. After extensive discussion with Bridgestone, I conclude that the most cost effective way for us poor consumers of these vehicles, is to stick with Bridgestone BUT use independant tyre dealers, (as per details/info can be obtained from Bridgestone,) at a cost of approx £180 per tyre replacement. I am aware that Pirelli produce a reinforced "Scorpian" tyre that will fit these vehicles, but the cost is practically identical, so we are no better off than if we use independant dealers locally to source the Bridgestone Duellers. I assume that we may not need to go to Toyota dealers if using such an option to cancel the TPMS, but, what do I know, just being a humble litigation expert.

We all wait with baited breath for your advices concerning alternative tyres that we can use on these particular vehicles, which will be in keeping with our specific warranties, and whether or not they involve the removement of the Bridgestone SSR donut and any amendment to the TPMS

Best Regards

John

[bothwell_buyer]

this topic is scattered over various posts just now. I stuck in my tuppence worth on one string, and won't repeat it here. However the fact is that Bridgestone have delighted folk at F1 success; but have taken their eye off customer satisfaction on run flats for RAVs; BMWs and Porsches. 2000 BMWs off the road wiating for Bridgestone run flats is a lot of cars and a lot of angry people. Porsche is poaying out amounts of six figures to keep their customers happy.

Toyota have the added complication that not only are the tyres in short supply and on back-order, but they can only be fitted by dealers as the local guys won't handle many RAV runflats over a year. My guy in Glasgow hasn't been asked to do 1. However he says that using run flats is a total waste of time as 50 miles is no use to get to a dealer who has a tyre in stock and can fit it. The ride quality is worse than the performance I get from my 225/40 18 tyres, which themselves have a very stiff sidewall. Even my 18" back up set which I think are 55 or 60 profile have a hard sidewall and coped witha 3 mile run flat without damage. So why on earth is Toyota pretending anything other than they are saving millions by not fitting/providing a spare wheel????

As for Bridgestone - sorry kirk - but my experience with them wasted a holiday using a motorhome in australia as its tyres were a 'funny size' and Bridgestone garages there couldn't supply a replacement for 4 days. Since then I have a policy of avoiding Bridgestone tyres - if they want an exclusive deal with Toyota and think that by selling runflat replacements at £250 to £300 (for BMWs) then their marketing strategy is implanted in that bit of the brain stuck up their posterior. And I'm a memeber of the Inst of marketing and know a wee bit about customer loyalty, brands etc. We are in a climate of recession and car prices are dropping thru the floor. Word is public about BMW and T180 run flat problems and we will see re-sale values plummet - who on earth wants to pay £200+ to replace a flat tyre....a tyre that cannot even be repaired!!!

BBC Watchdog or similar material - we should all signa petition and get this farce stopped. Its monopolistic behaviour out of control.

Torch the bams...! (ooops - sorry - getting carried away)

[RaverT180]

Where does this myth that you can only get a tyre at your local dealer come from? The tyre is available from any wholesaler. The tyre can be fitted at any supplier. The problem comes with A: You need to change the donut and you need the equipment and B: Resetting the TPS monitors, which are both a pig to do. The tyres are not monopolised to Toyota/Bridgestone

Kingo

Kingo

I recently visited my local tyre dealer. He's well respected and most people go to him around here. I asked him for prices for RAV4 run flats mainly in case he could be of help to some of the local owners. he said he knew exactly which tyre I meant and that he had been told by Bridgestone that he could not have them as they were sold exclusively to Toyota. He proffered this information without me giving any background info.

It is only since we have been talking about cartels and monopolies that this guy Kirk from Bridgestone has come forward. He seems a perfectly nice guy and seems willing to put the cards on the table but there is a lot to lose. If such an agreement exists or ever existed the OFT will come down on both parties like a ton of bricks. I still haven't seen the promised list of "nationwide independant distributors" for these run flats. Has anyone else? Does anybody know of a single independant or national distributor that can supply and fit these tyres?

Dear Anchorman

Yeah, Kirk advised me that Stapleton Tyres of Braintree in Essex (approx 20 miles away) are now set up to fit the Duellers. He subsequently called me to let me know that Formula something Tyres in Basildon (50 miles away) are also on board with this particular RFT system. To be honest, I have not seen a list of nationwide independant distributors for these run flat tyres, but I think that he is still working on it, in between recalling Toyota fitters in the Essex area for refresher training. I feel certain that the nationwide and european list will follow in the fullness of time. However, in the meantime, don't hesitate to contact Kirk, who I feel will be able to provide you with details concerning your local independant tyre dealers who have the ability to fit these tyres in approx 4/5 minutes as opposed to Toyotal dealers labour charges of £70 +. So the cost for replacement, assuming the donut is not damaged, should come out around £180 as opposed to the horrendous £356, charged by Colchester Toyota to replace a damaged tyre, which did not even deflate.

I feel that a few of us on this forum have now got things out into the open. Toyota GB have been less than helpful to us poor consumers, but at least Bridgestone, have picked up the baton and seem to be endeavouring to assist in this situation wherever they can. (Let's hope their quote of £180 for a replacement tyre is fact NOT fiction). After speaking to Kirk, I sincerely feel there is no reason to doubt otherwise. (After all this contentuous issue, wish I had got an XT5 with a spare wheel stuck on the back door, but gawd, don't you just love that T180 engine!!!!!!! lol

Best regards

John

[Plutus]

" And I'm a memeber of the Inst of marketing and know a wee bit about customer loyalty, brands etc. "

I used to be a member too Bothy (resigned years ago). Got to agree Toyota have a credibility problem about this.

Think you hit the nail on the head about saving money on the spare wheel.

[anchorman]

Have you contacted these distributors to see if they have stock and what they would cost?

[Bridgestone]

Hi All,

I have been getting lots of questions abou the system so I will put some info here for you guys.

Where is my Local non Toyota Tyre dealer who can fit/repair my Tyres? The list of Tyre Dealers is now ready and has been sent to Toyota customer services and we will be putting it on our website. in the mean time you can call me or email and I will point you to your nearest one.

Are the T180 wheels different? No they are a standard 7.5JX18 Alloy wheel. (in some european countries other makes and designs are availiable as an option and still run the BSR rings inside.) the V6 version in the USA uses the same rim but with a spare wheel on the tailgate. all these have a pressure monitoring system on the valve (in the USA it is law on new vehicles to have a pressure monitoring system). these valves do not have to be re coded when new tyres are fitted.

Can my BSR tyre be repaired? this one is down to the idividual who is to carry out the repair, he or she must be happy that the Tyre is safe to repair, ie no marks or damage from running underinflated. But if all is OK with the Tyre then Yes a repair can be done.

Hope this helps but please call me for any info.

Kirk

07989 359 143

kirk.walker@bridgestone.eu