T 180

[john1944]

Some time ago I made critical comments about the Rav T180, and was abruptly told to lay off the criticisms of a car I knew nothing about. I cannot remember who the little man was who made this suggestion. However, in recent weeks I have seen countless articles relating to civil actions, horror stories and general discontent with this car because of its famour R.F.T's. Much detail is now recorded on a car windscreen at the point of sale, on fuel consumption figures, road tax liability; that I wonder if more important information should be made available. Service intervals for example vary between 9000 miles and 20, 000 miles, my late C2 had a 20k and 2 year interval, and the average inclusive cost of such services. The mileage expected from a set of tyres, and the cost to replace would be interesting (particularly on the T180), and such things as clutches, exhausts. Garages could collect data from customers and on established models could produce figures to indicate what the monthly cost of running a Rav over 5 years would be. Just a thought.

[duncerduncs]

Some time ago I made critical comments about the Rav T180, and was abruptly told to lay off the criticisms of a car I knew nothing about. I cannot remember who the little man was who made this suggestion.

I'm surprised your memory is so bad John ;)

The point I was making at the time was we are not in a position to tell other people what they should spend their money on. If someone comes on this forum saying they've bought a T180 or SR180, we should congratulate them on their purchase and advise them of the problems some (not all) of their fellow owners have had with the BSR.

Just a thought!

[Fujisan]

Much detail is now recorded on a car windscreen at the point of sale, on fuel consumption figures, road tax liability; that I wonder if more important information should be made available.

The mileage expected from a set of tyres, and the cost to replace would be interesting (particularly on the T180), and such things as clutches, exhausts. Garages could collect data from customers and on established models could produce figures to indicate what the monthly cost of running a Rav over 5 years would be. Just a thought.

You didn't draw up the Home Information Packs for the government, did you?

Because what you are suggesting makes the daft, expensive and bureaucratic HIP's seem almost sensible!

Wear rates on consumables such as tyres, clutches and exhaust's will vary from person to person, even country to country. Are you really asking manufactures to set up standardised test rigs to measure these parameters.

Just how long would a car be sat on this test rig until the exhaust fell off! Years! It's nonsense!

You can't collect scientific data from the public on a car they have never seen or driven, so those spaces on your "CIP" would be empty for five years. By which time the manufacture is well into working on it's replacement, especially Japanese manufactures that generally have a six year turnaround time between generations of each model.

Consumable items are called consumable because it is expected that they will need replacing at intervals during the cars life time. Everybody knows this and accepts it.

Really have never read anything so daft.......just a thought!

[Plutus]

Hey Fuji - give the guy a break.

This is a very polite forum and we welcome new ideas / suggestions even if we don't agree with them.

What he is saying is that there is a vast difference in running costs (of all kinds) from vehicle to vehicle and these differences are very relevant. He has a sort of point and to call it nonsense is not fair.

My experience of the motor trade over the past 35 years leads me to treat anything they say / claim with utmost suspicion and yes, I'm being objective. Ok it's better now than in the "old days" but we still have many examples of dealers (of all marques) ripping us off in situations where we have to trust them. The cynic in me says this is what is happening with the T180 run flats - the dealers know T180 owners have nowhere else to go and are stuffing their pockets. If the real world costs (and hassle) of the T180 tyres were honestly and correctly laid bare at point of sale then I suspect very few would be sold.

Regards

Peter

[Fujisan]

If the real world costs (and hassle) of the T180 tyres were honestly and correctly laid bare at point of sale then I suspect very few would be sold.

Regards

Peter

Oh, I agree with you absolutely and have said so many many times in a dozen different threads about the T180 RFT's. Totally correct, I too suspect very few would be sold.

But really, can you truely expect every manufacture to set up standard industry test's for every model just so that they can say "you're exhaust might or might not last five years". The cost's would be huge! And who pay's in the end!

Somethings wear out, it's the nature of driving a car, just how long they last depends upon how you drive the car, just like the fuel consumption that they presently post. The difference is a standard test for fuel consumption is a simple thing to achieve compared to testing how long individual parts will last!

I don't know about you, but if I'm looking for a new car, I forget the sales people and head over to the service department and ask them how much servicing for the next 5 years will be. The cost of tyres I can find on the net (the T180 is a special case :( because it'll usually includes labour :ffs: ), along with any other info I need. Homework is key, but I don't see that what was suggested holds any value to the buying public.

[Plutus]

I see the impracticality point.

Suppose this is partly what things like JD Power survey achieve.

[sheathy]

Some time ago I made critical comments about the Rav T180, and was abruptly told to lay off the criticisms of a car I knew nothing about. I cannot remember who the little man was who made this suggestion. However, in recent weeks I have seen countless articles relating to civil actions, horror stories and general discontent with this car because of its famour R.F.T's. Much detail is now recorded on a car windscreen at the point of sale, on fuel consumption figures, road tax liability; that I wonder if more important information should be made available. Service intervals for example vary between 9000 miles and 20, 000 miles, my late C2 had a 20k and 2 year interval, and the average inclusive cost of such services. The mileage expected from a set of tyres, and the cost to replace would be interesting (particularly on the T180), and such things as clutches, exhausts. Garages could collect data from customers and on established models could produce figures to indicate what the monthly cost of running a Rav over 5 years would be. Just a thought.

Interesting post... Although it sounds as if the more important information you would like to be made available is the information that is more important to you....

I believe the technical term for the sum of all the running costs of a vehicle is total cost of ownership. I think more and more manufacturers are looking at an easier way of enabling us calculate this. You can do this on some websites already - and I agree this should be more transparent. On T180 / SR180 the RFT scenario is not ideal, but realistically, do you think manufacturers are willingly going to admit product weaknesses to the consumer?

In theory we should know all the information before we buy, but in reality it's practically impossible unless you've done the homework.

[anchorman]

I don't know how you would put any numbers to this. I have stood at the spare parts counter at a Toyota dealership and listened with bewilderment at how some people cough up what I consider huge sums of money for servicing and repairs. They also seem willing to have "normal" tyres fitted there. I think the cost of ownership can be dramatically reduced by shopping around for "consumables" like tyres and exhausts (except where underhanded agreements of exclusivity exist between manufacturers).

Obviously the warranty period is the natural (but not obligatory) domain of the Main dealer but labour costs can be halved by using good independant dealers. Don't forget that in the front of the warranty book it states that;

"Toyota will not deny a subsequent warranty repair solely because you used a service provider other than an authorised Toyota centre or an official Toyota service outlet"

This means you can use a local independant for servicing but it must be done in accordance with the schedule and "poor quality parts" must not be used but you do not even have to use genuine parts.

My point is that you could dramatically reduce the cost of ownership or pay as much as you like for it.