Looking At Changing My Car...

[T V O R]

I’ve been seriously considering changing my great Yaris T-Sport to a smaller car. I can’t believe I’m doing this but at the end of the day fuel is going up (and it never goes down) car tax is going up, insurance is going up, all my bills have gone up and my wages haven’t moved :(

The future financially isn’t looking too bright for any of us, so today I went and looked at a Peugeot 107 Sport (without the strips) and will take a close look at he Aygo Platinum sometime this week.

The 107 has the option of ESP and curtain airbags. Anything on the Aygo that would make me choose it over the 107? Both are similarly priced. The thought of group 1 insurance, £35 a year road tax (soon to be £20) and over 60mpg is just too tempting

[SJandMR2]

Yes ...the 107 is Pug ugly..the Aygo is not :D

[gordonh]

It all boils down to which car you like the look of most, and whos customer service you'd rather deal with.

Peugeot/Citroen come with the wonderful customer service of the FRENCH which personally I'd avoid if possible myself.

[BadBoyVTEC]

It all boils down to which car you like the look of most, and whos customer service you'd rather deal with.

Peugeot/Citroen come with the wonderful customer service of the FRENCH which personally I'd avoid if possible myself.

Exactly

[Jan van de Wouw]

ESP and curtain airbags are available for the Aygo too, at least they are in The Netherlands...

[banzaijoe]

You'd have to be driving like a complete idiot to need ESP on the Aygo anyway...

[T V O R]

Do any of the Aygo’s come with a rev counter as standard? I think a rev counter is a necessity nowadays if you want to drive economically.

[Unklian]

Do any of the Aygo’s come with a rev counter as standard? I think a rev counter is a necessity nowadays if you want to drive economically.

Hi There.

Easy to fit after you've bought a car......

From Toyota, they are expensive. About £252.00, 18 months ago.

Have a look at this:-

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=64418

Somebody has recently purchased the rev-counter, bolt and housing from a write-off.

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85383

Ian

[Demonic Angel]

I've been looking into a rev counter but tbh I find my ears are a cheaper alternative to keeping revs low and knowing when to change gear..... ;)

[PaulT]

Do any of the Aygo’s come with a rev counter as standard? I think a rev counter is a necessity nowadays if you want to drive economically.

Not to worry, the speedometer is a perfectly acceptable substitute once you learn the gear ratios.

Paul.

[T.F.S.B.I.G.W.S.]

Do any of the Aygo’s come with a rev counter as standard? I think a rev counter is a necessity nowadays if you want to drive economically.

Rev counter is standard with the Sport Model

[zakelwe]

Agree with Joe, anyone who needs ESP with 67bhp is a right old scaredy custard. Joe's one has 130bhp and it's still not an issue ( though his is uprated in a lot of other aspects as well of course). You'd be safer fitting wider tyres on new alloys. ESP or 195/205's ? An easy decision!

The rev counter is useful for overtaking to make sure you get the right gear to put the car at about 3500rpm, but if you are not bothered with that you get to know the full bore change up points and also how to drive econimically.

I think the 107 and C1 look less sporty than the Toyota, but that is personal taste of course.

Regards

Andy

[daveyjp]

1st to 10mph, 2nd to 20mph, 3rd to 40mph, 4th to 50mph, 5th thereafter. For overtaking 3rd is good for 20-80+mph. That's all I do wothout a rev counter and I get excellent fuel economy!! Filled up last night - 31 litres with 403 miles covered since last fill - 59mpg.

[zakelwe]

1st to 10mph, 2nd to 20mph, 3rd to 40mph, 4th to 50mph, 5th thereafter. For overtaking 3rd is good for 20-80+mph. That's all I do wothout a rev counter and I get excellent fuel economy!! Filled up last night - 31 litres with 403 miles covered since last fill - 59mpg.

into 4th at 40 ? I normally do it at 30 and 35-38 for 5th.

You're over reving ! :P

Regards

Andy

[T V O R]

You'd have to be driving like a complete idiot to need ESP on the Aygo anyway...

Agree with Joe, anyone who needs ESP with 67bhp is a right old scaredy custard. Joe's one has 130bhp and it's still not an issue ( though his is uprated in a lot of other aspects as well of course). You'd be safer fitting wider tyres on new alloys. ESP or 195/205's ? An easy decision!

Think again...

:o

[wharfstaff]

The Platinum interior is nice with leather and alcantara and I've just fitted a rev counter from Pugeot. Customer service from Toyota is legendary,

[zakelwe]

You'd have to be driving like a complete idiot to need ESP on the Aygo anyway...

Agree with Joe, anyone who needs ESP with 67bhp is a right old scaredy custard. Joe's one has 130bhp and it's still not an issue ( though his is uprated in a lot of other aspects as well of course). You'd be safer fitting wider tyres on new alloys. ESP or 195/205's ? An easy decision!

Think again...

:o

With that example perhaps you are right!

More of an issue here is the short wheelbase and the low geared steering meaning that when the back comes around you have to be quick to catch it with opposite lock and throttle, sounds like he did both two late and the car hit the inside kerb. I had a similar experience with my Yaris on a 180 degree turn off from Junction 5 of the M25 onto the A21 in the wet once. It went 40-50 degrees to the left before correcting itself. I was so amazed I didn't even do anything apart from thank God I had my brown underpants on. After that I practiced it and could do 2 or 3 transitions from oversteer to understeer all the way around.

When I was a lot younger I had exactly the same experience in a Cavalier 1600L. I ended up going off the left hand side of the road, in the middle of the road backwards at 50mph and then the right hand side of the road coming to rest 1 foot away from a Give Way sign for a minor road coming onto my road. Total damage was a scuffed wheelcover. The driver of the car I had just overtaken must have had a good chuckle as he subsequently drove past my strangely parked car .....

Regards

Andy

[daveyjp]

1st to 10mph, 2nd to 20mph, 3rd to 40mph, 4th to 50mph, 5th thereafter. For overtaking 3rd is good for 20-80+mph. That's all I do wothout a rev counter and I get excellent fuel economy!! Filled up last night - 31 litres with 403 miles covered since last fill - 59mpg.

into 4th at 40 ? I normally do it at 30 and 35-38 for 5th.

You're over reving ! :P

Regards

Andy

3rd is extremely flexible and removes lots of unecessary gear changes.

You are doing 30 in 4th and you are approaching a 50 limit. What happens when you need more power from 30 in 4th gear to get to 50? Absolutely flop all, so you change down to third to get you to 50 then change to 5th - two changes - I'm in third, plant the foot get to 50 and change to 5th - one gear change.

You are in 4th at 30 and you need to slow to 20 due to a hazard, 4th is too high so you need to change to third back to 30 then you change to 4th - continue ad infinitum - whereas I'm in 3rd all along and don't need to touch the gearstick.

In the long run a few extra revs is cheaper than a new clutch

Using third at 30 also maintains engine braking, so when you lift off the car doesn't run on as it does in 4th , engine braking cuts in so no need to use the brakes either - more savings

[zakelwe]

1st to 10mph, 2nd to 20mph, 3rd to 40mph, 4th to 50mph, 5th thereafter. For overtaking 3rd is good for 20-80+mph. That's all I do wothout a rev counter and I get excellent fuel economy!! Filled up last night - 31 litres with 403 miles covered since last fill - 59mpg.

into 4th at 40 ? I normally do it at 30 and 35-38 for 5th.

You're over reving ! :P

Regards

Andy

3rd is extremely flexible and removes lots of unecessary gear changes.

You are doing 30 in 4th and you are approaching a 50 limit. What happens when you need more power from 30 in 4th gear to get to 50? Absolutely flop all, so you change down to third to get you to 50 then change to 5th - two changes - I'm in third, plant the foot get to 50 and change to 5th - one gear change.

You are in 4th at 30 and you need to slow to 20 due to a hazard, 4th is too high so you need to change to third back to 30 then you change to 4th - continue ad infinitum - whereas I'm in 3rd all along and don't need to touch the gearstick.

In the long run a few extra revs is cheaper than a new clutch

Using third at 30 also maintains engine braking, so when you lift off the car doesn't run on as it does in 4th , engine braking cuts in so no need to use the brakes either - more savings

Obviously two different approaches. I have an MMT so maybe that explains it, it is very little effort to change gear if need be, most of the time I just gently accelerate in gear if flat though so the same number of gear changes as you.

You might be saving on clutch and brakes but I'm saving on replacment engine cost if you want to be fair about possible costs due to wear and tear ;)

Regards

Andy

[T V O R]

With that example perhaps you are right!

With ESP/VSC the computers can correct the car before you realise there is even an issue, by which time you are probably facing the other way or worse still upside down. I read somewhere the car is doing calculations of about 120 times per second and is obviously faster at reacting than any human can.

Another point is that VSC will be compulsory on new cars very soon like ABS is now, that’s how good it is at preventing accidents

[zakelwe]

With that example perhaps you are right!

With ESP/VSC the computers can correct the car before you realise there is even an issue, by which time you are probably facing the other way or worse still upside down. I read somewhere the car is doing calculations of about 120 times per second and is obviously faster at reacting than any human can.

Another point is that VSC will be compulsory on new cars very soon like ABS is now, that’s how good it is at preventing accidents

Yep, for most drivers it will help a lot. The downside is the cost and it is yet another thing to go wrong. Personally I think much wider tyres are a better bet, they put a bigger safer margin in place as the limits are moved much firther away. Also wider tyres mean you can brake a lot harder without skidding in a straight line, something ESP systems have no effect on. I guess most accidents are front to back collisions of this sort, rather than people understeering into bushes. Pedestrians tend to be knocked down in a straight line too.

I'm probably just a fuddy duddy old Victor Meldrew Luddite though :D

Regards

Victor

[gordonh]

Looking at the pictures of that accident and reading the drivers write up I think he has failed to point out that he was probably driving like a complete maniac and bottled it after hitting a corner at a much higher speed than he should have.

He says the back of the car twitched.

On a front wheel drive car that very rarely happens unless you take your foot off the throttle which allows the engine to work like a brake on the front wheels, the back wheels then continue at their current speed and start to try and overtake the front, and much sideways fun ensues. Front wheel drive cars do hold the road better than rear wheel drive normally, but when they go wrong there's a lot less you can do to correct it.

To me it sounds like he went around the corner too fast and started to run out of road and drift towards the kerb, he then came off the throttle and the back came unstuck, at that point he was probably going to hit something anyways.

It sounds similar to what often happens to inexperienced motorcyclists on country roads. They hopefully live long enough to learn to enter a corner slow and accelerate out of it, you do not want to be braking on a corner when roads are wet. The same rules work well for cars as well.

Also the fact that he rolled several times does imply he was doing some serious speed.

He was probably doomed from the moment he entered the corner.

Not sure if even the ABS would have saved him if he'd just stood on the brakes and tried to get around the corner.

On a happier note, at least it looks like the driver area was protected fairly well, just don't want to be in the back !

[PaulT]

Personally I think much wider tyres are a better bet, they put a bigger safer margin in place as the limits are moved much firther away.

Only in the dry. In the wet things are most likely to be worse as there is less pressure on the tread to displace water, and more water has to be displaced anyway to allow all of the tyre to sit on the tarmac.

This guy has wider tyres and was driving in the wet.

Paul.

[Dinky_05]

you don't need esp in an aygo. i've driven ours to the limits and its a forgiving car. as someone has said, one more thing to go wrong. i have cars which have it and you can't tell, and cars that don't and are more fun for it. seriously, if you really are uncomfortable or lack driving confidence then think about it but with a car this spec you won't need it - ifyou are you'll never reach a point where you might.....might need it.

go for the aygo - good looks, great service and a lot of fun!

[kimi]

I’ve been seriously considering changing my great Yaris T-Sport to a smaller car. I can’t believe I’m doing this but at the end of the day fuel is going up (and it never goes down) car tax is going up, insurance is going up, all my bills have gone up and my wages haven’t moved :(

The future financially isn’t looking too bright for any of us

TVOR

we are all in the same situation with the price of everything.....however

if you sell the yaris buy a big fast sports car i have ..you can always cut back on the food & the heating

if you really insist on a small car buy the Aygo, i did see a nice one last week it had leather seats suited the car .

But remember as Jethro says " Treat each day as if its your last because one day it will be "