Scangauge I I

[shcm]

Stew,

You'll want another pancake in 20 minutes.

IMHO, its base accuracy won't be any better. However, you will be able to tweak it (or it will tweak itself), so that after a while it does give an answer that is closer to reality. An over simplification would be to say that it multiplies the answer by a "fiddle factor" (as we say in the trade :D), to give a more correct looking figure.

I don't think your chip will make much difference. The scangauge will just for the sake of argument come up with a different fiddle factor than it would for an un-chipped engine.

I have wondered about the effect of your chip on the exist mpg figures the car produces, but haven't liked to say anything. We know they all seem to be more inaccurate on the 4.3 than 4.2, but the chip, as far as I can see, at least gives false (lets say modified), fuel rail pressure information to the engine management system. That will affect the mpg calculation, so I can't help wondering whether the on board mpg is even more "wrong" because of that. Mind you, I think your system also affects the injector timing as well, which will also effect the accuracy of the calculation the engine management system does. Hope I haven't lost you there.

I always take the view that there are no b******s questions, only potentially b******s answers mate

It will be interesting to see how you get on with it.

[Hoovie]

The "Fiddle Factor" as schm puts it is a very good description of how it becomes accurate, I would say.

As far as fuel usage goes, It reads the data from the Car; you enter your 'real world' data when you fill up and the difference is the fiddle factor which is remembered by the unit (and displayed for reference) for subsequent fillups.

As far as other non-fuel info goes, you can correct the speed that it shows if that is out (mine was spot on, unlike the speedo), but not aware of any other corrections that the average Joe Driver would know to correct.

Stew - I will get a cable sorted out for you to use to tuck behind lining - I need to get a couple of bits when I shorten them (currently all 5 metres long!) so will be a few days ;)

[local hero]

Stew - I will get a cable sorted out for you to use to tuck behind lining - I need to get a couple of bits when I shorten them (currently all 5 metres long!) so will be a few days ;)

Cheers Hoovie + thanks SHCM for advice, don't think i will need a cable in fact i dont need 5ft of the one supplied, Scangauge arrived noon to-day I ordered it 1600 yesterday, excellent service, didn,t get in from work till about an hour ago, but tried a few locations + quite fancy it HERE..

Notice the two blank switches below it! well i can pass cable thru one of those and guess whats directly below?

So I think even a dimwit like me could manage that,, What do you think of position? Going to study instruction manual now, hope its not to complicated ......

[Hoovie]

That could work very nicely with the switch blank and the cable position

not sure if the manual says it or not, or if you have tried it or not yet, but there are two connectors for the cables and they seem to be interchangable. the rear one should be just in the right position.

The service from ukobd is excellent isn't it? one reason why I really wanted to use a UK supplier.

PS- filled up today ...

Scangauge said 51.1 Litres used, Brimmed with 51.3 Litres - 0.4% accuracy

Scangauge said Fuel Cost was £58.22, spent £58.48 - 26p out! 0.4% accuracy again :)

I was using the display that shows the Miles to Tank empty and Litres Left in Tank on the way home and got my longest tankful ever - 363 miles - with confidence I would not run out :D.

The extra info the Scangauge provides just makes driving a lot better in terms of knowing what you can do

[local hero]

Anchs am i right in thinking that white plug next to the bonnet release is the OBD thingy?

I think he's gone off to bed - trains to play in the morning :D, but Yes Stew that is the OBD/Diag socket.

Well i bet you 4.3 d4d owners are itching to know how my scangauge is do'ing, well connecting it up is dead easy, and it gives loads of info most of which i don't understand, I have mithered poor Hoovie to death, I have not as yet done the brim to brim fill up that calibrates it, but at 70mph in 6th at one stage i was doing 753mpg, no thats not 75.3.mpg.. there is a code to enter for bhp i did that, and our cars quote 136 bhp @ 3600 rpm..mine was showing 35 bhp at those revs, took it to 5160 rpm in 4th and it showed 142 bhp (102) mph..disconnected my chip, tried again car was struggling at 4600 rpm in 4th but showed eventually 140 bhp, I cannot explain this, couple of quirks with the scangage unless Hoovie knows better. i drove out to a country pub this afternoon

SG recorded my journey there, then it clears itself and recorded the journey back, but what if i wanted the total for both trips? It will give you a total of eveything i have done today, then overnight it clears that info, ready for its next journey, that info is recorded as previous days info, after that it vanishes SO if i go on hols for a week it would appear i cannot store data for the whole holiday of touring, likewise it will give you all the info since your last fillup but in a weeks touring i would expect to fill up a number of times, some of this might be my own ineptitude, and maybe it will take me a while to work it out, but if not someone on here could be getting a surprise crimbo pressie

[Hoovie]

I was a bit annoyed initially at the way it dealt with the trips, but I got used to it very quickly and I do think it is good as I know what is going on each day. The one trip feature that I think would be good as an addition is a "data since last reset" so you could keep the info for multi-tanks fills as you say, Stew.

for the last 3-4 months I have recorded every tankful anyway so I have that data (put in in spirtmonitor and it appears in my sig :) )

You could keep a little notebook and jot down the info, maybe, if you are curious for each journey?

WHat RPM is meant to give peak BHP on the diesel? it is probably still fairly high isn't it, with the Torque being maxed at a lot lower RPM

[anchorman]

Anchs am i right in thinking that white plug next to the bonnet release is the OBD thingy?

I think he's gone off to bed - trains to play in the morning :D, but Yes Stew that is the OBD/Diag socket.

Well i bet you 4.3 d4d owners are itching to know how my scangauge is do'ing, well connecting it up is dead easy, and it gives loads of info most of which i don't understand, I have mithered poor Hoovie to death, I have not as yet done the brim to brim fill up that calibrates it, but at 70mph in 6th at one stage i was doing 753mpg, no thats not 75.3.mpg.. there is a code to enter for bhp i did that, and our cars quote 136 bhp @ 3600 rpm..mine was showing 35 bhp at those revs, took it to 5160 rpm in 4th and it showed 142 bhp (102) mph..disconnected my chip, tried again car was struggling at 4600 rpm in 4th but showed eventually 140 bhp, I cannot explain this, couple of quirks with the scangage unless Hoovie knows better. i drove out to a country pub this afternoon

SG recorded my journey there, then it clears itself and recorded the journey back, but what if i wanted the total for both trips? It will give you a total of eveything i have done today, then overnight it clears that info, ready for its next journey, that info is recorded as previous days info, after that it vanishes SO if i go on hols for a week it would appear i cannot store data for the whole holiday of touring, likewise it will give you all the info since your last fillup but in a weeks touring i would expect to fill up a number of times, some of this might be my own ineptitude, and maybe it will take me a while to work it out, but if not someone on here could be getting a surprise crimbo pressie

Sorry Stew but I fell about when I read this. Perhaps the SG is OK and your car is a nail???

Now next time we go out with Hoovie I don't want to see any of those Manchester cabbie tricks like hanging the poor guy over a bridge by his ankles.

I'm so sorry Stew but it has made me feel a lot better about doing my rules tomorrow.

Oh and I'm sure you will get the bottom of it so don't lose patience just yet!!!

Peak power is 3600rpm as Stew says;

:D

[Hoovie]

Anchs am i right in thinking that white plug next to the bonnet release is the OBD thingy?

I think he's gone off to bed - trains to play in the morning :D , but Yes Stew that is the OBD/Diag socket.

Well i bet you 4.3 d4d owners are itching to know how my scangauge is do'ing, well connecting it up is dead easy, and it gives loads of info most of which i don't understand, I have mithered poor Hoovie to death, I have not as yet done the brim to brim fill up that calibrates it, but at 70mph in 6th at one stage i was doing 753mpg, no thats not 75.3.mpg.. there is a code to enter for bhp i did that, and our cars quote 136 bhp @ 3600 rpm..mine was showing 35 bhp at those revs, took it to 5160 rpm in 4th and it showed 142 bhp (102) mph..disconnected my chip, tried again car was struggling at 4600 rpm in 4th but showed eventually 140 bhp, I cannot explain this, couple of quirks with the scangage unless Hoovie knows better. i drove out to a country pub this afternoon

SG recorded my journey there, then it clears itself and recorded the journey back, but what if i wanted the total for both trips? It will give you a total of eveything i have done today, then overnight it clears that info, ready for its next journey, that info is recorded as previous days info, after that it vanishes SO if i go on hols for a week it would appear i cannot store data for the whole holiday of touring, likewise it will give you all the info since your last fillup but in a weeks touring i would expect to fill up a number of times, some of this might be my own ineptitude, and maybe it will take me a while to work it out, but if not someone on here could be getting a surprise crimbo pressie

Sorry Stew but I fell about when I read this. Perhaps the SG is OK and your car is a nail???

Now next time we go out with Hoovie I don't want to see any of those Manchester cabbie tricks like hanging the poor guy over a bridge by his ankles.

I'm so sorry Stew but it has made me feel a lot better about doing my rules tomorrow.

Oh and I'm sure you will get the bottom of it so don't lose patience just yet!!!

Peak power is 3600rpm as Stew says;

:D

I don't know myself how those power graphs relate to actual output under different loading conditions, but there is a definate variance at what the Scangauge displays for HP at a given RPM depending on what the engine is having to do at the time, which makes sense really.

I was looking at the HP values yesterday when I was out driving and I saw a whole bunch of different HP values for a given RPM, depending on the conditions (varying between just cruising on the level, going up a major Dual-Carriageway where sometimes need to drop to THIRD to maintain momentum for around a mile and then going down similar)

I have always just looked at those graphs and thought "Oh, the power output at 3,600RPM is 136BHP" for example, but of course, it should be read as "Oh, the maximum power output at 3,600RPM is 136BHP" and if the conditions do not demand it, the power will be less (and the case of the 2.0VVT-i at least, the power output at any given rev is sometime shown as 0 BHP is the car is slowing so no power needed).

Exactly how this all is achieved I have no idea (don't deal with the oily bits or the electrically bits that control them)

If using the Scangauge to look at HP, it is also a good idea to set the display to also show LOD (Engine Load), maybe TPS (Throttle Position) and RPM so at least the HP and LOD can be viewed together.

I don't think you need to be worrying about if your Scangauge is working or not - it seems to me it is. The trick is to understand what it is telling you.

[Hoovie]

This may be worth trying ....

Set the Scangauge to show:

RPM, BHP & LOD

at various engine speeds make a note of the RPM, BHP and LOD values

According to Scangauge, the LOD is the Engine Loading and is "a percentage of the maximum power available currently being generated. In some vehicles it is the maximum available at the present RPM."

to get the maximum power for your vehicle in a view similar to the graph below:

It should be a matter of MAX POWER = BHP / LOD * 100.

This should also mean that it is possible be predict what the BHP displayed should be if you know the RPMs, the max power from the engine at that RPM (from the graph) and the LOD figure - This will help determine if the Scangauge is showing you correct data (obviously within the engine tolerances compared to graph)

[anchorman]

Using HP or horsepower is very misleading in terms of how well the engine can pull. It is really how much energy has been converted and is pretty useless in telling you anything worthwhile. For instance you could have a 600hp BMW engine but if you put it into a SCANIA truck and loaded it up to 38 tonnes it wouldn't move a wheel but they go quite nicely with a 320 hp 12 litre diesel installed.

This is how Wiki describe it;

Indicated horsepower

Indicated horsepower (ihp) is the theoretical power of a reciprocating engine if it is completely efficient in converting the energy contained in the expanding gases in the cylinders. It is calculated from the pressures developed in the cylinders, measured by a device called an engine indicator - hence indicated horsepower. It was the figure normally used for steam engines in the 19th century but is misleading because the mechanical efficiency of an engine means that the actual power output may only be 70% to 90% of the indicated horsepower.

A better guide to how well an engine can pull is torque. This is the actual amount of force available to turn the crankshaft and you can see in the above graph that there is very little point in allowing the engine to work outside the range of 1500 to 3000rpm. In some trucks that sector would be coloured green and then show orange or red as you go further away. You can see it in this photo and they show a very narrow green band because they are also balancing the specific fuel consumption which is usually lowest at the lower end of the highest torque;

In other words you get the lowest fuel consumption and highest torque close to 1500 rpm. So here is a quick test for Fuj'. If I you were to hazard a guess at which revs you change gear to get the best results from your "blob watch" it would be light throttle use up to about 1100/1500 rpm? Imagine that as a green sector.

For you Hoovie things look a bit dfferent because a petrol behaves in a different way;

You can see that there is a fairly linear climb to max power and the torque is generated much higher. That kick at just under 4000 rpm is the change brought about by the variable valve timing (VVTi). The same applies though and your fuel graph would show a line that gets lower with revs so your green sector would probably be in the range of 1500/2000 rpm.

It also shows in both cases that if you need to accelerate hard for example to overtake a smokey Land Rover that you need to rev a petrol hard and in the diesel there is no point exceeding 3000 rpm - you should be changing up the box to get the maximum pulling power. That is why the diesels have a 6 speed box. It allows you to make more use of the limited power (pulling) range.

Think of horsepower like a mouse and torque like an elephant.

[Fujisan]

In other words you get the lowest fuel consumption and highest torque close to 1500 rpm. So here is a quick test for Fuj'. If I you were to hazard a guess at which revs you change gear to get the best results from your "blob watch" it would be light throttle use up to about 1100/1500 rpm? Imagine that as a green sector.

Sorry Sir.....was paying attention Sir.......No wasn't asleep at the back of the class Sir!

Err......yes, right, as general rule I try to set a gear change point at 2000 rpm, which if I have read the material I have at home and now the graph you have produced, correctly, is the start (or peak) of maximum torque.

[Maximum Torque - 310 Nm between 2000 - 2800 rpm]

In practice, because of the gearing 1st to 2nd might be at 2500 rpm, 2nd to 3rd at 2100 rpm and the rest I can pretty much choose at any time between 1500 - 2000 rpm.

Miss Daisy still wear's big boots in the low gears ......but tread's lightly!

To be honest I don't like changing gear to early because I feel it labours the engine.....

From what I understand about the best way to operate a diesel engine there is no point going past max torque rpm (in this case 2800 rpm), you just get more noise!!

Think of horsepower like a mouse and torque like an elephant.

Like that......the mouse can run fast but the elephant can pull your house down!

[Hoovie]

Think of horsepower like a mouse and torque like an elephant.

Like that......the mouse can run fast but the elephant can pull your house down!

I think he meant that elephants go around naked ... so are all torque and no trousers :P

[local hero]

Think of horsepower like a mouse and torque like an elephant.

Like that......the mouse can run fast but the elephant can pull your house down!

I think he meant that elephants go around naked ... so are all torque and no trousers :P

Right Hoovie, never one to be dispondant ive found our next toy this one gives Torque BHP tells you when to change gear, times 0 to 60, 0to 100, and gathers all this information out of your 12v cigarette lighter.. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/gtechproSS-Horsepowe...1742.m153.l1262

should i get one first this time..

[Hoovie]

Ooooooo G-Meter :yes:

like you said .... "With the revolutionary new RPM pickup right from the cigarette lighter " - most interesting

I have to admit to have already bought the next toy essential item ...

TPMS Unit ;) I went for the same unit as Chris/Three5 bought and it looks very nice (arrived this morning).

Should be fitted in next week or so as my tyres seem to have gone a bit funny, so need a new set of boots ready for the autumn

[Fujisan]

Think of horsepower like a mouse and torque like an elephant.

Like that......the mouse can run fast but the elephant can pull your house down!

I think he meant that elephants go around naked ... so are all torque and no trousers :P

If I was.... ahem..."equipped" like a bull elephant, I would walk around with no trousers.

[Robert6920]

If I was.... ahem..."equipped" like a bull elephant, I would walk around with no trousers.

And I'd want to be your agent (!)

[bitman]

thats why when i accelerate i just keep it on 2000rpm (autobox)

[local hero]

Ooooooo G-Meter :yes:

like you said .... "With the revolutionary new RPM pickup right from the cigarette lighter " - most interesting

I have to admit to have already bought the next toy essential item ...

TPMS Unit ;) I went for the same unit as Chris/Three5 bought and it looks very nice (arrived this morning).

Should be fitted in next week or so as my tyres seem to have gone a bit funny, so need a new set of boots ready for the autumn

HEY HOOVIE, In the top gear mag i got cheap at the motorshow, theres an Ad for valve caps that are green when you have correct pressure, but go red when the tyre needs a bit more air, How cool is that mind you, might look a bit odd with 3 green caps + one red one..

[Hoovie]

They are a handy kind of device I think. Not a lot of use if you get a slow puncture on the move but great for a quick visual check before setting off each time in the car.

Are you a bit happier with the Scangauge now you've had it for a while, btw?

[local hero]

They are a handy kind of device I think. Not a lot of use if you get a slow puncture on the move but great for a quick visual check before setting off each time in the car.

Are you a bit happier with the Scangauge now you've had it for a while, btw?

TBH Hoovie my car is a very expensive hobby which sits on my drive most of the time, it hasn,t moved since i last posted, however i am off to Perthshire in 10 days so i hope to amass some statistics, I am not knocking the scangauge and it seems to be regarded very highly on every article i have read, however i think the BHP thing can be no more than a guestimate, as it cannot be accurately calculated other than with a dynanometer which offers a measured resistance, or so i am told.

[Hoovie]

Stew, I think the HP is one of those things that is interesting to see but doesn't actually mean a lot in itself.

FWIW, The main thing I look at the Scangauge on is the fuel economy and cost (I downloaded a bit more info that shows how to set the gauge to show instant MPG, trip MPG, daily MPG and Tank MPG all at the same time (or any combo of them) which looks like it could be very interesting).

The stuff like HP and IGN is probably useful if you want to see the impact of maybe changing fuel vendors, or changing something on the car, like your powerchip or my TTE exhaust - where the actual value itself is relative and you just want to see if it gets better or worse.

I mentioned quite a while ago about how each trip to my office used to cost about £10 more in fuel then I got back from the company. Now with the scangauge, I know exactly with live data how much each trip is costing, so I can make sure I adjust my driving to avoid that happening, so it could be about half the way to paying for itself :)

Sticking the car on a dyno will give a much more consistant answer I am sure