Rear Suspension Problem

[Loom]

Hi

I drive a 2000 Avensis 1.8 GS hatchback. When driving over uneven surfaces, potholes, etc. I hear a clunking sound and the rear end becomes unsettled. This happens even at slow speeds and minor irregularities on the road surface. I took the car to a garage who advised me to replace the "tie rods". They would've ordered it from Toyota and contacted me when I can take my car back. That was more than 2 months ago.

Any way, I had a look myself and there's some play on the tie rods going from the rear wheel to the front of the car (the longitudinal suspension links, as described in the Haynes manual). The others feel sturdy. Could that be the cause of the problems? Are the bushes seperately available or do I have to replace the whole link? It seems like a fairly easy job so I'll do it myself.

Thanks!

[Beagh1958]

Bushes can be bought seperately, easy enough to check with car jacked up, see if you can push wheel towards front of vehicle to denote movement & also pull wheel backwards to check for movement. While your under car check your anti/bar/links. Can cause knocking noise & also very easy to change if worn, common fault on Avensis. Good luck.

[Loom]

Bushes can be bought seperately, easy enough to check with car jacked up, see if you can push wheel towards front of vehicle to denote movement & also pull wheel backwards to check for movement. While your under car check your anti/bar/links. Can cause knocking noise & also very easy to change if worn, common fault on Avensis. Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. I did not even jack up the car, I reversed up ramps and with the wheels on the ground (ramp) I could feel the play on the longitudinal links when I pull it across the width of the car. I have jacked up the car before and could feel some play on the left wheel if I grab it at the top and bottom and twist it towards/away from me. I'll jack up the car and test both wheels again.

How would I know which links/bushes are worn if there is play on the wheel? Also, when can one get away with only replacing bushes and when should the whole link be replaced? I think I need a tutorial on diagnosing simple suspension problems!

Thanks again. I'll post my results after I've done a bit more testing.

[Beagh1958]

A/R/Bar links easy to check, they are just a short rod with small balljoint at either end. To test, just grap hold of them & move them if any wear you will see one of the ball joints move, if they move change it. You also have the roll bar running through two rubber bushes, same again any play change them.

[Beagh1958]

Sorry, just answered regarding A/R/Bar links. To check for play in your suspension you need car up on axle stands (suspension unloaded & wheels free to rock from 12 to 6 o'clock position) best if you have some one rock wheel for you whilst your under vehicle with torch. As wheel is being rocked you may well see movement or if you hold each joint in turn you may well feel movement in joints. Remember to chock your front wheels before going under car.

[Loom]

Thanks, your advice is appreciated. I'll post my results when I have a chance next week.

[Loom]

OK, I finally got round to checking the suspension. I have since replaced all 4 tyres and there's a noticable improvement. The previous tyres were a mixture of different brands and the new ones are all Toyo Proxes CF1. When I bought the car a couple of months ago I noticed that the rear tyres were 195/65 R15 instead of 195/60 R15 but I did not think that the higher profile would cause such a deteriation in handling. Any thoughts on this?

With reference to above picture:

I jacked the car up and did the following:

• Tried to rock the wheels from 12 to 6 o'clock and from 9 to 3 o'clock:
  No play worth mentioning. Before the tyres were replaced there was a bit of play from 12 to 6 o'clock.
  
• Tried to move the suspension links by hand.
  There is definately some play on the longitudinal link (A) on the horizontal axis, i.e. over the width of the car.
  The bush on the rear transversal link © had a little bit of play when levering it with a screw driver.
  The front transversal link (B) had no play.
  
• The anti-roll bar drop link could be rotated along it's own axis but I guess that is normal.
  

Here's a picture of the rear end of the longitudinal link mounting, with the gap indicated by an arrow:

If I grab the metal around the bush and press with my thumb on the bolt at the opposite end I can actually move it along the bolt.

Now this is where I need to tap into you guys' knowledge and experience. Given above test results, and the fact that a garage quoted me about £200/£220 (labour at about £60/hour, I think) to replace the "tie rods", what is your diagnosis? To recap, the car's back end become unsettled (moves sideways) when driving over irregularities (holes, ridges etc.) on the road surface. It is better now that the tyres have been replaced but I would rather have it fixed properly. Could the longitudinal links alone cause it or is it the job of the transversal links to help keep the car stable sideways? If anything needs to be replaced, should I replace the whole link or only the bushes? I'll greatly appreciate any advice or thoughts.

Thanks!

[Beagh1958]

Depending on country you live in or book you use, each of these items can have different names. What you call a longitudinal link I would call a trailing arm. Simply on the whole if any part of your rear suspension has play in it (if my car, any worn bushes are changed ) part should really be changed. Some people can live with a bit of play until MOT due. Your pictured lower trailing arm bush if worn will allow movement of hub which if excessive can wear your tyres out before full expected lifetime of tyre & can give you bad road handling.

What i don't understand is why your garage want to change your tie rods, are they damaged in some way? bent maybe. Or is it another case of got to change whole thing mate bushes not sold seperately!!!!!!!! And if they require changing have they the equipment (Lazer Tracing Kit) to adjust links once fitted as your car has multi link rear suspension with adjustable tie rods, therefore requires tracking once parts fitted.

Try etyres.co.uk in regards to your tyres & tracking requirements, they can also point out any bushes that may need renewing, recommended by "WHICH MAGAZINE".

[Loom]

Thanks for the reply, Beaqh.

The Haynes manual refer to it as a "longitudinal link". I have heard the term "trailing arm", though (and it's easier to pronounce). The Haynes manual is useful as far as how to replace the links but it doesn't really tell you how to determine if it's faulty or not. According to Haynes the bushes on the tranverse links can not be replaced but the link as a unit has to be replaced. It doesn't say anything about the trailing arm bushes.

It seems that I'll need to replace at least the trailing arm bushes and I might need to get a second (and free) opinion on the adjustable transverse links. It happened once that the back end became unsettled when entering a corner - it was just the quarter of a roundabout to enter the motorway and I don't recall any holes or ridges on the road, but being a roundabout the surface might have been uneven. That experience convinced me to have a look at the suspension. I've only done town driving since then but am going to do regular motorway driving soon.

One more thing, how would I know if the anti-roll bar drop links are worn?

I guess these parts would only be available from Toyota. Hopefully it won't cost me an arm and a leg!

[Loom]

Sorry for the double post. I only intended to edit my previous post.

Thanks for the etyres link. I purchased my tyres from mytyres.co.uk. They were about £10/tyre cheaper on the Toyo Proxes CF1 and offered a discount of £10 if a set of 4 was purchased - saved me £50. The offer is not available any more and they now only advertise the Proxes CF1 with rim protection (mines have not), so it might have been to clear old stock. I'll compare prices again the next time I have to replace tyres.

[Beagh1958]

Sorry to contradict "Haynes Manual" but you sure can change those bushes, have changed many myself. Different country i am afraid (used to live in England) so cannot point you in direction of motor factor, maybe someone in UK can point you in the right direction.

Just a point on "Haynes Manual" i'm going back a bit but they used to show how every part of a car worked & how it could be repaired. Take a gearbox for example, would show complete strip down, now they just seem to tell owner to take car back to dealers.

Modern cars are just to complicated (what with modern electrical systems for ex:) so i guess they just cannot cover all car sections anymore.

Euro car parts sell a code reader made by "Blaupunkt" have been told very good quality, handy for the DIY man who want's to save a bit of money on diagnostics. If used in conjunction with "Autodata CD2" nice little setup for home use. But if you use it only now & again is it worth the money unless you chip in together with some friends.

Just came to mind, you could try company i think called "Blue print" ? for bushes, i am sure they are still around in UK.

Did garage tell you why tie rods require changing. If you go ahead with any repairs insist tie rods are put in your boot for later inspection once changed.

[Beagh1958]

Quite straight forward metal rod with ball joint at each end. If you take a firm grip of bar & give a good push & pull if any play you will feel it & more than likely see it. Common fault on all cars not just Toyotas, wear & tear item.

[Loom]

I know what you mean about the Haynes manual - while it is useful in certain areas it definitely lacks detail. I used to own a Rover 600 and the so-called RAVE CD was much, much more detailed than the Haynes manual.

Back to the topic, I sent 3 messages to obtain quotes for the bushes, 1 for Toyota themselves, but was informed by Pentland components that none of their distributors, Blue Print included, stock the bushes. So far not so good.

[helstonmike]

I cannot give any advice on this subject but ave recently been quoted £1346 for the supple and fitting of 2 rear traing arms and bushes to my 2006 avensis............is this competitive !!//