Avensis D4d Shuddering At Low Revs

[mightymac]

Hi All. I'm new to the forum and I will formally introduce myself on the intro page.

I have just purchased a 54 plate Avensis D4D 2.0 T3S along with a years warranty up to £1000 with Olympic warranties.

Incidently, this is my 5th diesel, so I would hope to know what a good sounding and running diesel should feel like. Which brings me to my problem.

The Avensis has 85,000 on the clock so I'm under no illusions that things shouldnt be going wrong, however everyone I've spoken to (several reputable garages) and taken my car to for inspection seem to think theres nothing wrong. I think different. Maybe you guys can help.

Fault 1. A shudder in the lower revs which disappears when you give it more revs. This happens in all gears

I initially diagnosed this as a problematic clutch, especially with the miles done. However, one garage I have taken it to tell me its not a clutch fault, but may be the flywheel causing judder. The garage I bought the car from, said its nothing but dirty injectors, and gave me some Forte diesel clean (which has done absolutley nothing). I don't even think they took it for a test drive. I've been reading other posts with people wiht similar problems. Does anyone think this is a DMF problem. If so, I know its expensive, but hope its covered under my warranty.

2. Poor starter, taking several turns before finally turning. - I think this may be the starter motor and another post suggests it is. In my Fiesta 1.4TDCI, the DMF went as well as the starter motor. Apparently when the DMF goes, it blows a load of dust into the S/M which makes it difficult to turn it over (if possible at all). Does anyone think the 2 are linked?

3. Poor MPG. I don't horse my cars around, but I don't drive like its Sunday either. Is 33MPG average linked to the above?

If you all come back and tell me to get a grip and stop being pedantic, then I will stop pursuing a problem which maybe isn't there. I apolohise if my inexperience shows in my post. I appreciate any help. Incidently, I'm taking it to Toyota today to see what they say.

[igormus]

Hi All. I'm new to the forum and I will formally introduce myself on the intro page.

I have just purchased a 54 plate Avensis D4D 2.0 T3S along with a years warranty up to £1000 with Olympic warranties.

Incidently, this is my 5th diesel, so I would hope to know what a good sounding and running diesel should feel like. Which brings me to my problem.

The Avensis has 85,000 on the clock so I'm under no illusions that things shouldnt be going wrong, however everyone I've spoken to (several reputable garages) and taken my car to for inspection seem to think theres nothing wrong. I think different. Maybe you guys can help.

Fault 1. A shudder in the lower revs which disappears when you give it more revs. This happens in all gears

I initially diagnosed this as a problematic clutch, especially with the miles done. However, one garage I have taken it to tell me its not a clutch fault, but may be the flywheel causing judder. The garage I bought the car from, said its nothing but dirty injectors, and gave me some Forte diesel clean (which has done absolutley nothing). I don't even think they took it for a test drive. I've been reading other posts with people wiht similar problems. Does anyone think this is a DMF problem. If so, I know its expensive, but hope its covered under my warranty.

2. Poor starter, taking several turns before finally turning. - I think this may be the starter motor and another post suggests it is. In my Fiesta 1.4TDCI, the DMF went as well as the starter motor. Apparently when the DMF goes, it blows a load of dust into the S/M which makes it difficult to turn it over (if possible at all). Does anyone think the 2 are linked?

3. Poor MPG. I don't horse my cars around, but I don't drive like its Sunday either. Is 33MPG average linked to the above?

If you all come back and tell me to get a grip and stop being pedantic, then I will stop pursuing a problem which maybe isn't there. I apolohise if my inexperience shows in my post. I appreciate any help. Incidently, I'm taking it to Toyota today to see what they say.

hello mate

i deem DMF would be felt even on high revs with strong vibration- it's not yr problem.

you state no shudder when you rev the engine. neither YOU nor we know all the service history of your car.

QUOTE:

"The garage I bought the car from, said its nothing but dirty injectors, and gave me some Forte diesel clean (which has done absolutley nothing)"

the meaning of DIRTY can only be applied to the spark plugs then the spark can be lost and I really wonder what they said :)))

the injectors either inject or pour diesel. the idle run of the engine is like a litmus paper and shows a stable injection. when "poured" diesel can not be burnt and this detones the engine resulting its vibration at low rpm.

have all injectors tested first. read posts re the same /similar issues here.

i feel you'll be lucky when they will be repaired and new nozzles tips installed.

cheers

Igor

[mightymac]

Hi All. I'm new to the forum and I will formally introduce myself on the intro page.

I have just purchased a 54 plate Avensis D4D 2.0 T3S along with a years warranty up to £1000 with Olympic warranties.

Incidently, this is my 5th diesel, so I would hope to know what a good sounding and running diesel should feel like. Which brings me to my problem.

The Avensis has 85,000 on the clock so I'm under no illusions that things shouldnt be going wrong, however everyone I've spoken to (several reputable garages) and taken my car to for inspection seem to think theres nothing wrong. I think different. Maybe you guys can help.

Fault 1. A shudder in the lower revs which disappears when you give it more revs. This happens in all gears

I initially diagnosed this as a problematic clutch, especially with the miles done. However, one garage I have taken it to tell me its not a clutch fault, but may be the flywheel causing judder. The garage I bought the car from, said its nothing but dirty injectors, and gave me some Forte diesel clean (which has done absolutley nothing). I don't even think they took it for a test drive. I've been reading other posts with people wiht similar problems. Does anyone think this is a DMF problem. If so, I know its expensive, but hope its covered under my warranty.

2. Poor starter, taking several turns before finally turning. - I think this may be the starter motor and another post suggests it is. In my Fiesta 1.4TDCI, the DMF went as well as the starter motor. Apparently when the DMF goes, it blows a load of dust into the S/M which makes it difficult to turn it over (if possible at all). Does anyone think the 2 are linked?

3. Poor MPG. I don't horse my cars around, but I don't drive like its Sunday either. Is 33MPG average linked to the above?

If you all come back and tell me to get a grip and stop being pedantic, then I will stop pursuing a problem which maybe isn't there. I apolohise if my inexperience shows in my post. I appreciate any help. Incidently, I'm taking it to Toyota today to see what they say.

hello mate

i deem DMF would be felt even on high revs with strong vibration- it's not yr problem.

you state no shudder when you rev the engine. neither YOU nor we know all the service history of your car.

QUOTE:

"The garage I bought the car from, said its nothing but dirty injectors, and gave me some Forte diesel clean (which has done absolutley nothing)"

the meaning of DIRTY can only be applied to the spark plugs then the spark can be lost and I really wonder what they said :)))

the injectors either inject or pour diesel. the idle run of the engine is like a litmus paper and shows a stable injection. when "poured" diesel can not be burnt and this detones the engine resulting its vibration at low rpm.

have all injectors tested first. read posts re the same /similar issues here.

i feel you'll be lucky when they will be repaired and new nozzles tips installed.

cheers

Igor

[mightymac]

Hi All. I'm new to the forum and I will formally introduce myself on the intro page.

I have just purchased a 54 plate Avensis D4D 2.0 T3S along with a years warranty up to £1000 with Olympic warranties.

Incidently, this is my 5th diesel, so I would hope to know what a good sounding and running diesel should feel like. Which brings me to my problem.

The Avensis has 85,000 on the clock so I'm under no illusions that things shouldnt be going wrong, however everyone I've spoken to (several reputable garages) and taken my car to for inspection seem to think theres nothing wrong. I think different. Maybe you guys can help.

Fault 1. A shudder in the lower revs which disappears when you give it more revs. This happens in all gears

I initially diagnosed this as a problematic clutch, especially with the miles done. However, one garage I have taken it to tell me its not a clutch fault, but may be the flywheel causing judder. The garage I bought the car from, said its nothing but dirty injectors, and gave me some Forte diesel clean (which has done absolutley nothing). I don't even think they took it for a test drive. I've been reading other posts with people wiht similar problems. Does anyone think this is a DMF problem. If so, I know its expensive, but hope its covered under my warranty.

2. Poor starter, taking several turns before finally turning. - I think this may be the starter motor and another post suggests it is. In my Fiesta 1.4TDCI, the DMF went as well as the starter motor. Apparently when the DMF goes, it blows a load of dust into the S/M which makes it difficult to turn it over (if possible at all). Does anyone think the 2 are linked?

3. Poor MPG. I don't horse my cars around, but I don't drive like its Sunday either. Is 33MPG average linked to the above?

If you all come back and tell me to get a grip and stop being pedantic, then I will stop pursuing a problem which maybe isn't there. I apolohise if my inexperience shows in my post. I appreciate any help. Incidently, I'm taking it to Toyota today to see what they say.

hello mate

i deem DMF would be felt even on high revs with strong vibration- it's not yr problem.

you state no shudder when you rev the engine. neither YOU nor we know all the service history of your car.

QUOTE:

"The garage I bought the car from, said its nothing but dirty injectors, and gave me some Forte diesel clean (which has done absolutley nothing)"

the meaning of DIRTY can only be applied to the spark plugs then the spark can be lost and I really wonder what they said :)))

the injectors either inject or pour diesel. the idle run of the engine is like a litmus paper and shows a stable injection. when "poured" diesel can not be burnt and this detones the engine resulting its vibration at low rpm.

have all injectors tested first. read posts re the same /similar issues here.

i feel you'll be lucky when they will be repaired and new nozzles tips installed.

cheers

Igor

Thanks Igor for your fast repsonse.

Your right about not knowing the service history. I've been supplied with service history up to 42,000 then nothing untill a full toyota service at 80, 000 miles. Not sure what happened in between that. I would have hoped that these little faults may have been picked up during that 80, 000 major service. Maybe not.

I was a little disappointed with the dealers attitude on Tuesday. His exact comments were 'these cars sit on the forecourt, and are moved 100 metres here and there, a good clean out (with the Forte) will sort it. It'll be the injectors that are dirty or clogged and this is whats causing all your other faults'.

I'm no mechanic, so I took his word for it and hoped for the diesel engine cleaner would help. It hasn't.

I'm taking it to a Toyota delaership in a few hours to let them give it the once over. Hopefully they will feel the vibration that no one else has managed to (or chose to ignore).

I'll update you all on what happened.

Thanks again for your help. I really appreciate it.

[igormus]

Hi All. I'm new to the forum and I will formally introduce myself on the intro page.

I have just purchased a 54 plate Avensis D4D 2.0 T3S along with a years warranty up to £1000 with Olympic warranties.

Incidently, this is my 5th diesel, so I would hope to know what a good sounding and running diesel should feel like. Which brings me to my problem.

The Avensis has 85,000 on the clock so I'm under no illusions that things shouldnt be going wrong, however everyone I've spoken to (several reputable garages) and taken my car to for inspection seem to think theres nothing wrong. I think different. Maybe you guys can help.

Fault 1. A shudder in the lower revs which disappears when you give it more revs. This happens in all gears

I initially diagnosed this as a problematic clutch, especially with the miles done. However, one garage I have taken it to tell me its not a clutch fault, but may be the flywheel causing judder. The garage I bought the car from, said its nothing but dirty injectors, and gave me some Forte diesel clean (which has done absolutley nothing). I don't even think they took it for a test drive. I've been reading other posts with people wiht similar problems. Does anyone think this is a DMF problem. If so, I know its expensive, but hope its covered under my warranty.

2. Poor starter, taking several turns before finally turning. - I think this may be the starter motor and another post suggests it is. In my Fiesta 1.4TDCI, the DMF went as well as the starter motor. Apparently when the DMF goes, it blows a load of dust into the S/M which makes it difficult to turn it over (if possible at all). Does anyone think the 2 are linked?

3. Poor MPG. I don't horse my cars around, but I don't drive like its Sunday either. Is 33MPG average linked to the above?

If you all come back and tell me to get a grip and stop being pedantic, then I will stop pursuing a problem which maybe isn't there. I apolohise if my inexperience shows in my post. I appreciate any help. Incidently, I'm taking it to Toyota today to see what they say.

hello mate

i deem DMF would be felt even on high revs with strong vibration- it's not yr problem.

you state no shudder when you rev the engine. neither YOU nor we know all the service history of your car.

QUOTE:

"The garage I bought the car from, said its nothing but dirty injectors, and gave me some Forte diesel clean (which has done absolutley nothing)"

the meaning of DIRTY can only be applied to the spark plugs then the spark can be lost and I really wonder what they said :)))

the injectors either inject or pour diesel. the idle run of the engine is like a litmus paper and shows a stable injection. when "poured" diesel can not be burnt and this detones the engine resulting its vibration at low rpm.

have all injectors tested first. read posts re the same /similar issues here.

i feel you'll be lucky when they will be repaired and new nozzles tips installed.

cheers

Igor

Thanks Igor for your fast repsonse.

Your right about not knowing the service history. I've been supplied with service history up to 42,000 then nothing untill a full toyota service at 80, 000 miles. Not sure what happened in between that. I would have hoped that these little faults may have been picked up during that 80, 000 major service. Maybe not.

I was a little disappointed with the dealers attitude on Tuesday. His exact comments were 'these cars sit on the forecourt, and are moved 100 metres here and there, a good clean out (with the Forte) will sort it. It'll be the injectors that are dirty or clogged and this is whats causing all your other faults'.

I'm no mechanic, so I took his word for it and hoped for the diesel engine cleaner would help. It hasn't.

I'm taking it to a Toyota delaership in a few hours to let them give it the once over. Hopefully they will feel the vibration that no one else has managed to (or chose to ignore).

I'll update you all on what happened.

Thanks again for your help. I really appreciate it.

hi again

look -all liquified cleaners are MONEY FOR NOTHING -- it has been tested by me personaly.

All the injectors are to be tested regulary as well as spark plugs.

Now you're close to be happy :)

Good luck

Igor

[mightymac]

Just a quick update.

I took the car to Toyota. The fella took the car out and his first words were 'something seriously amiss here'. I was mortified. He also told me to 'take it back'. No something I can do unfortunately.

When he ran the diagnostics, there was a fault with Injector 3 (+4 on read out) with Injector 2 compensating (-2.5 on read out). This is what has been causing the judder.

The poor starting is down to a knackered starter motor. The Battery was fine.

I've reluctantly phoned my so called after service garage who told me to 'stick some cleaner in the tank' on Tuesday. The cars under warranty, but don't think the injectors are covered (even on my high level cover).

Anyone know of any good, reputable companies in the North East that will do the above under warranty? I want tio make sure the job is done and done correctly.

[igormus]

Just a quick update.

I took the car to Toyota. The fella took the car out and his first words were 'something seriously amiss here'. I was mortified. He also told me to 'take it back'. No something I can do unfortunately.

When he ran the diagnostics, there was a fault with Injector 3 (+4 on read out) with Injector 2 compensating (-2.5 on read out). This is what has been causing the judder.

The poor starting is down to a knackered starter motor. The battery was fine.

I've reluctantly phoned my so called after service garage who told me to 'stick some cleaner in the tank' on Tuesday. The cars under warranty, but don't think the injectors are covered (even on my high level cover).

Anyone know of any good, reputable companies in the North East that will do the above under warranty? I want tio make sure the job is done and done correctly.

hello

yes correct the same was presumed. just note you've to test all four injectors to sleep easy :)

re starter motor - it only must be greased enabling pinion to slip fastly.

Good luck

Igor

[Luke-v]

I read through your post and thought 'injectors' from the start.

Toyota replaced two injectors for me and said it had cured it, but it hadn't. I then had them replace the other two and it has been perfect since.

At 80k, I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone to do it under warranty. I think you are looking at paying it yourself (£1200+ I believe).

The only other thing I would consider in your position is to buy a 3rd party warranty that states it covers injectors, but I don't know if it is a part normally covered in these warranties.

You can run gallons of injector cleaner through it and it won't improve things a bit.

Sorry to hear you are in this situation.

[SteveUK260]

in your place i would do 3 things

1) Check warranty agreement to see if it excludes injectors specifically, or excludes general things like engine, ETC, if not you might be in luck.

2) Get toyota dealer to write you a letter stating what is wrong with the car, and how it can be fixed, (make sure its on letter headed paper)

3) Go to the place you bought your car from and show them the letter, sometimes they sub contract external garages to fix cars for them, and those garages might be unreliable.

[mightymac]

Thanks to you all for your input. The warranty doesn't cover the injectors, but covers the rest of the injection system (according to the paperwork). I'm fully expecting to have to pay for this myself. I have been sending a few e-mails around to some diesel specialists. Lets see what prices they come back with. I'm hoping that the £1200 you stated above was Toyota prices and that I may get it a little cheaper than that. The issue with the starter and the turbo appear to be covered, so hopefully I'll get something for my outlay on the warranty.

The juddering is really getting to me now and is more obvious than ever before (probably because I know the fault). The cars going back to the Dealers on Wednesday. Lets see what cr*p they give me this time.

Will update you all after Wednesday

[mightymac]

Well, my cars been in overnight and they've ran several 'extensive' tests to see what the issue is. After all these tests they finally agreed it was the injectors and injectors 2 & 3 are being replaced under warranty. Hopefully this will be the end to my issue, but I hope that the whine from the turbo isn't another 'Big' problem. If Igormus is reading this, I have told them to check all 4 injectors so I can sleep easy. :-)

For my punishment for all the arguing I've done, I've been handed a Smart car as a courstesy vehicle. What a come down.

[igormus]

Well, my cars been in overnight and they've ran several 'extensive' tests to see what the issue is. After all these tests they finally agreed it was the injectors and injectors 2 & 3 are being replaced under warranty. Hopefully this will be the end to my issue, but I hope that the whine from the turbo isn't another 'Big' problem. If Igormus is reading this, I have told them to check all 4 injectors so I can sleep easy. :-)

For my punishment for all the arguing I've done, I've been handed a Smart car as a courstesy vehicle. What a come down.

sure glad they've found a problem

hoping no more problems.

cheers

Igor

[toymotorowner]

Hi All. I'm new to the forum and I will formally introduce myself on the intro page.

I have just purchased a 54 plate Avensis D4D 2.0 T3S along with a years warranty up to £1000 with Olympic warranties.

Incidently, this is my 5th diesel, so I would hope to know what a good sounding and running diesel should feel like. Which brings me to my problem.

The Avensis has 85,000 on the clock so I'm under no illusions that things shouldnt be going wrong, however everyone I've spoken to (several reputable garages) and taken my car to for inspection seem to think theres nothing wrong. I think different. Maybe you guys can help.

Fault 1. A shudder in the lower revs which disappears when you give it more revs. This happens in all gears

I initially diagnosed this as a problematic clutch, especially with the miles done. However, one garage I have taken it to tell me its not a clutch fault, but may be the flywheel causing judder. The garage I bought the car from, said its nothing but dirty injectors, and gave me some Forte diesel clean (which has done absolutley nothing). I don't even think they took it for a test drive. I've been reading other posts with people wiht similar problems. Does anyone think this is a DMF problem. If so, I know its expensive, but hope its covered under my warranty.

2. Poor starter, taking several turns before finally turning. - I think this may be the starter motor and another post suggests it is. In my Fiesta 1.4TDCI, the DMF went as well as the starter motor. Apparently when the DMF goes, it blows a load of dust into the S/M which makes it difficult to turn it over (if possible at all). Does anyone think the 2 are linked?

3. Poor MPG. I don't horse my cars around, but I don't drive like its Sunday either. Is 33MPG average linked to the above?

If you all come back and tell me to get a grip and stop being pedantic, then I will stop pursuing a problem which maybe isn't there. I apolohise if my inexperience shows in my post. I appreciate any help. Incidently, I'm taking it to Toyota today to see what they say.

I might be wrong but has anyone had a look at the engine mountings? Just a thought.