Yaris Wheel Shudder

[viperroom_112]

Hey guys..

So i recently had my wheels powder coated and straightened etc. Now I know the wheels are fine they are 17" wheels and take two 12mg waits (hope thats correct) ..

Now before they were fixed i got a bad vibration about 60 . Now the vibration is back and worse, i have seen the wheels on the balancer and they are balanced, but the shudder is still there , it varies from speeds i.e. 60 - 70 - 75 - 83 ...

But the vibration does stop depending on road surface and also if i am turning the corner it is fine ? any help would be appreciated.. p.s unrelated but a wine--y noise comes from the front right wheel too ???

David

[cfc1]

Two 12mg weights?

Balance weights come in 5's.. ie 5,10,15,20 etc etc... so I'm not sure what you mean by 12mg's...

How did the balance them? Look at the wheels, is there one row of weights or are there two rows on each wheel, (I know that the wheel may have only required one row.. sometimes wheels don't require ANY weights at all) there are 7 different ways (on the balancers we have at work anyway) to balance wheels.. we find that useing two rows of weights on the inside of the wheel.. one row near the back lip and another just behind the spokes gives the best results.

Do your wheels require Centralising Rings?.. sometimes known as spigot rings or spacers... if your wheel aren't 100% centred on the hub.. even half a millimeter out, as the wheel turns it will be going up and down by that half milimeter.. this gives the same vibration you get when the balance is out. Perhaps the refurbisher forgot to refit them if you had them before.

The first thing I would check for is missing centralising rings... jack the car up and remove the wheel nuts and see if there is any play between the centre of the wheel and the hub, it should be a snug fit with no movement here. If that is OK I would go back and get the wheels balanced again whilst explainig your symptoms.. they may balance them useing a different method. While they have the wheels on the balancer get them to check the tyres to make sure there are no twists or high/flat spots as this will also cause vibration.

The whiney noise... may well be unrelated as you say.. but maybe not, you may have a problem with brake pads or/and discs.. this can cause a vibration... so if everything with the wheels checks out fine, go to an MOT station and get a brake check done, this will pinpoint any irregularities within the braking system such as warped discs or faulty pads and even any brake inbalance (one side brakinig stronger than the other) The noise could also be a wheel bearing.. again jack the car up and pull at the wheel to check for play (wheel nuts still in place this time) if there is any play from both top to bottom AND feft to right.. then your wheel bearing could be at fault (bearings can get noisey before they get play.. so even if there is no play it is no guarantee that the bearings are OK) after checking for play in the bearing.. spin the wheel and listen for noises.. if you hear the same(ish) noise then you found the problem... but it can be difficult to know if you are hearing the disc running through the pad (normal) or if you are hearing a worn bearing if your not sure what you are listening for... so do both sides and see if there is any difference.

Edit: Another thing to try is swapping the wheels from back to front.. if its a front wheel or tyre then the vibration will stop.. assuming everything is OK with the current rear wheels/tyres.

[viperroom_112]

as usual davy a thorough and informative reply. Many Thanks, yes these wheels are causing me grief , no spiggot rings as you say , but tbh with you they have never been balanced properly in all the time i have had them (at least it feels like that) . Could it be tracking or alignment ??

David

[cfc1]

Tracking/allignment will cause the car to pull to one side, it won't cause a vibration.

If you have always had problems and never had centralising rings then I would guess (educated guess ;)) that will be the main source of your vibrations.. assuming the wheels don't fit snugly on the hub without them.

Go into your local alloy wheel dealer and ask for a set, tell them the make of car and the make of wheel.. if it's a popular type of wheel, Momo, fox etc etc... then getting rings won't be a problem and should be only a couple of quid each. If there isn't a shop nearer you try Skidz in Falkirk.

[kimi]

davys the main man here

i agree that balancing would be where i would be looking too.

A few years ago i was having trouble too, got my wheels balanced at two different places,

both times i still had the problem

it was 3rd time lucky at a different place that sorted it.

Take it somewhere else, get them to test them before removing the weights,

see what someone elses machine reads.

hope you get it sorted as i understand how anoying a wheel wobble can be.

I have recently had new tires on my Teg, went to Cornwall had a bad wheel wobble,

took it somewhere else when i got back, they rebalanced it and its fine now

[Nerfie]

weights.. in/on/attached to the alloys? :S

as in.. like.. actual weights.. you know lumps of metal? I do assume you don't mean drugs :P Im sure thats one place the police wouldnt search though lol

newbie question but why? I've never heard of that before... :)

[moonstone mart]

weights.. in/on/attached to the alloys? :S

as in.. like.. actual weights.. you know lumps of metal? I do assume you don't mean drugs :P Im sure thats one place the police wouldnt search though lol

newbie question but why? I've never heard of that before... :)

As with anything that spins it should be balanced - wheel/tyre packages are hardly ever balanced as no tyre is exactly the same weight/thickness as the next.

To balance the wheel/tyre small metal weights are stuck or knocked onto either the inner/outer rim or inside face in certain places (special machine used to pin point these places).

Mart.

[cfc1]

Why do we put weights on wheels?

I'll start with the tyres... No tyre is symetrical, it may look like it is.. but it isn't. If you look at the tread pattern you will see that some of the "blocks" are thicker than others, this sort of thing (aswell as other variables in the tyre construction) means that one side of a tyre can be heavier than the other.

Wheels also aren't symetrical, the metal in the wheels can vary very slightly in density from one side to another, there is also the part of the wheel with the hole for the valve... this will obviously weigh less than the opposite side of the wheel because there is a bit of metal missing.

When you look at new tyres you see a red dot (different companies can use different colours, but red is most common) this dot represents the heaviest part of the tyre, when we fit them to a rim we try to get the red dot next to the valve so that the heaviest part of the tyre is next to the lightest part of the wheel. Doing this cuts down on the amount of balance weights required on each wheel.

When we "balance" wheels what we are trying to do is got both sides of the wheel to weigh the same, imagine yourself holding a bucket of sand and start spinning it round... you feel your body being drawn towards the heavy bucket, the same thing happens with wheels, the heavy side pulls on the wheel causing vibration as it spins. Now omagine yourself with two buckets of sand.. one in each hand.. now when you spin them round you don't get the pulling as both buckets are pulling you in opposite directions at the same time.. thus balancing you out. By putting the weights on the wheel we are equaling out the heavy side by adding weight to the light side... if the heavy side is 30 grams heavier we put 30 grams on the light side tp "balance" out the weight and stop the vibration.

There are different types of weights used for different wheels, there are clip on weights which go on the outer and inner edges of the wheels....

... there are also stick on weights that stick to the inside of the wheel and can't be seen easily....

... these are what most alloy wheels are balanced with.

Hope that answers your question.

[Nerfie]

That does answer everything perfectly, thanks. Also raises some other questions, but also makes me paranoid as to wether mine has been done or needs it lol ;0

Is this not a bit over the top for a yaris? I mean, on the local airfireld near me I can max out mine, and happily raise my hands off the steering wheel and it'll carry on as straight as you'd expect! :0

Surely this is only good for,

a) track cars

B) things that go near 200mph? :S

Also, this now explains what the coloured dots are doing on my tyres!! Cheers :D

[moonstone mart]

That does answer everything perfectly, thanks. Also raises some other questions, but also makes me paranoid as to wether mine has been done or needs it lol ;0

Is this not a bit over the top for a yaris? I mean, on the local airfireld near me I can max out mine, and happily raise my hands off the steering wheel and it'll carry on as straight as you'd expect! :0

Surely this is only good for,

a) track cars

B) things that go near 200mph? :S

Also, this now explains what the coloured dots are doing on my tyres!! Cheers :D

Every car will need the wheels balancing - it doesnt depend on how big/small/fast or slow the car is.

Mart.

[cfc1]

Wheel balancing doesn't really affect the car as in driving in a straight line (well it does as out of balance wheels can cause irregular tyre wear which can cause a car to drift slightly off the straight line) wheel balance causes a vibration, this vibration starts at between 55 and 60mph and goes away between 70 and 75mph (in most cases) in all cases it is a vibration that you can "drive through".. in other words it goes away when you get a little bit faster... whether it comes back at 150+mph I have no idea, but maybe you can get to 170 and it will go away

Nerfie... if you aren't getting a vibration through your steering wheel at around 60(ish) miles per hour then in all probability you won't need your wheels balanced. Getting a vibration as described above is a sign that the wheels rquire to be balanced, although it can also be a symptom of a tyre problem (tyre gone out of shape etc)

[kimi]

Is this not a bit over the top for a yaris?

It is not over the top for a Yaris...if it was not done people would be on here complaining about wheel wobble on a yaris ;)

and remember a wobble will be placing strain on other moving parts of the car too.

[Nerfie]

Cheers for the replies.

When you say vibration... how potent should this vibration be or not be exactly?

I'm gonna have to go drive my damn car now to see if I notice anything lol..

[cfc1]

The amount of vibration will vary depending on how many grams the balance is out by... if its out by 60 grams it will vibrate more than it would if it was out by 15 grams.

The stronger the vibration the more weights will be needed to balance it out. You can get a vibration from something that is a minor irritation to something that will give you vibration white finger.

[gar]

That does answer everything perfectly, thanks. Also raises some other questions, but also makes me paranoid as to wether mine has been done or needs it lol ;0

Is this not a bit over the top for a yaris? I mean, on the local airfireld near me I can max out mine, and happily raise my hands off the steering wheel and it'll carry on as straight as you'd expect! :0

Not over the top... Most people notice wheel wobble at about 70mph. let the steering whell go a bit loose in your hands and it may start 'hammering' a little. The worse this is, the worse your balancing is.

Surely this is only good for,

a) track cars

B) things that go near 200mph? :S

Also, this now explains what the coloured dots are doing on my tyres!! Cheers :D

Every car will need the wheels balancing - it doesnt depend on how big/small/fast or slow the car is.

Mart.

[viperroom_112]

cheers guys .. all fixed now , needed one 10mg weight on front right wheel and new tyres got 4 brand new 17" toyos for 150 quid .... haha

[l40bas]

i had this problem on a old car i had and found it to be one tyre had gone egg shapped and twisted  on the tread area :D  :D