Air Con Leaking

[vmssys]

Hi All,

Bought a 53 D4D T4 last December. Approved Toyota used car with 1yr warranty. We reported to the dealer that the aircon was not working. they took the car in and regassed it for us F.O.C. Said they could not find any leak in the system.

A couple of months later the aircon is again useless. car gets services. ask Mr T to look again at the aircon. They regas and pressure test. No leak. Could they have it back 4 weeks later to check. System filled with dye.

4 weeks later

Again aircon has leaked. aircon guy cannot find presence of dye. strips system underbonnet looking for potential problems. eventually found a return valve under Battery that appeared leaking. tightened. regas and fill with dye. can they have it back in 3 weeks to test.

3 weeks later

Again aircon has leaked. aircon guy cannot find presence of dye. strips system underbonnet looking for potential problems. cannot find anything. eventually states that leak cannot be under bonnet and must be inside car.

this is were it gets interesting. so far garage has performed work "under warranty". Now the service manager asks me for more details about the car, I tell him the history and about the car being approved Toyota used car. He's not sure that the work will be covered under warranty. The next step is a dashboard strip down and they want the car for 3-4 days. He will have to speak to the warranty company and see what they say. He failed to get back to me today as promised.

I put forward an argument that I am now worried that I have been sold an approved used vehicle which is leaking gas into the passenger compartment when the car is used for transporting a baby. my g/f refuses to have the aircon on now.

My questions to you all.

what gas could be leaking into the passenger compartment?

is it hazardous?

does/should the toyota used car warranty cover repairing the aircon?

any ideas what the fault is?

I'm expecting a call from the service manager tomorrow but I'm not expecting good news. What argument should I use against the dealership if they say there's nothing that can be done?

[Q.S.]

Hi All,

Bought a 53 D4D T4 last December. Approved Toyota used car with 1yr warranty. We reported to the dealer that the aircon was not working. they took the car in and regassed it for us F.O.C. Said they could not find any leak in the system.

A couple of months later the aircon is again useless. car gets services. ask Mr T to look again at the aircon. They regas and pressure test. No leak. Could they have it back 4 weeks later to check. System filled with dye.

4 weeks later

Again aircon has leaked. aircon guy cannot find presence of dye. strips system underbonnet looking for potential problems. eventually found a return valve under battery that appeared leaking. tightened. regas and fill with dye. can they have it back in 3 weeks to test.

3 weeks later

Again aircon has leaked. aircon guy cannot find presence of dye. strips system underbonnet looking for potential problems. cannot find anything. eventually states that leak cannot be under bonnet and must be inside car.

this is were it gets interesting. so far garage has performed work "under warranty". Now the service manager asks me for more details about the car, I tell him the history and about the car being approved Toyota used car. He's not sure that the work will be covered under warranty. The next step is a dashboard strip down and they want the car for 3-4 days. He will have to speak to the warranty company and see what they say. He failed to get back to me today as promised.

I put forward an argument that I am now worried that I have been sold an approved used vehicle which is leaking gas into the passenger compartment when the car is used for transporting a baby. my g/f refuses to have the aircon on now.

My questions to you all.

what gas could be leaking into the passenger compartment?

is it hazardous?

does/should the toyota used car warranty cover repairing the aircon?

any ideas what the fault is?

I'm expecting a call from the service manager tomorrow but I'm not expecting good news. What argument should I use against the dealership if they say there's nothing that can be done?

Sounds to me like it is the evaporator that is leaking (thats the chiller part of the system inside the car). The gas leak will be fairly small and is not hazardous, can suffocate you in large quantities if it displaces the air you are breathing but that's just not gonna happen unless you've got the recharge cylinder in your car with the valve open and the windows all shut.

If the aircon is not working any more, the pressure has already leaked from the system. The low pressure switch will not allow the compressor to operate now that the gas pressure has gone, so no more gas will be pushed out of the leak by the compressor.

As for the warranty, Mr T's used car warranty states that it is virtually the same as with a new car with the exceptions of Battery and exhaust.

I quote, "All major components, both mechanical and electrical, are included. In fact, the warranty cover is virtually the same as that for a new Toyota, except that the Battery and exhaust are excluded. And youre still covered throughout the year whatever mileage you do"

So, I suppose it depends where they draw the line for 'major components'.

You are gonna have to pressure them for warranty. Good luck.

Oh, sorry forgot to say, The gas is known as R134a. 'tetrafluoroethane'. Look it up on Wikipedia for details.

[igormus]

Hi All,

Bought a 53 D4D T4 last December. Approved Toyota used car with 1yr warranty. We reported to the dealer that the aircon was not working. they took the car in and regassed it for us F.O.C. Said they could not find any leak in the system.

A couple of months later the aircon is again useless. car gets services. ask Mr T to look again at the aircon. They regas and pressure test. No leak. Could they have it back 4 weeks later to check. System filled with dye.

4 weeks later

Again aircon has leaked. aircon guy cannot find presence of dye. strips system underbonnet looking for potential problems. eventually found a return valve under battery that appeared leaking. tightened. regas and fill with dye. can they have it back in 3 weeks to test.

3 weeks later

Again aircon has leaked. aircon guy cannot find presence of dye. strips system underbonnet looking for potential problems. cannot find anything. eventually states that leak cannot be under bonnet and must be inside car.

this is were it gets interesting. so far garage has performed work "under warranty". Now the service manager asks me for more details about the car, I tell him the history and about the car being approved Toyota used car. He's not sure that the work will be covered under warranty. The next step is a dashboard strip down and they want the car for 3-4 days. He will have to speak to the warranty company and see what they say. He failed to get back to me today as promised.

I put forward an argument that I am now worried that I have been sold an approved used vehicle which is leaking gas into the passenger compartment when the car is used for transporting a baby. my g/f refuses to have the aircon on now.

My questions to you all.

what gas could be leaking into the passenger compartment?

is it hazardous?

does/should the toyota used car warranty cover repairing the aircon?

any ideas what the fault is?

I'm expecting a call from the service manager tomorrow but I'm not expecting good news. What argument should I use against the dealership if they say there's nothing that can be done?

hello

the more likely reazon is with A/C condenser located in front of a coolant radiator. this condenser is incured by a mecanical kicks from road stones/small parts. moreover this condenser is made of an AL . it is understood the AL suffers from an oxide corrosion as well as a salt corrosion in winter time when the salt is thrown to melt an ice on roads. i deen the problem is there. it is understood this condenser might not be tested on leaks due to its location and hard visibility(!)

besides the capasity of all the A/C system depends on the condition of this condenser and its abiity to take heat off from the refrigerant.

cheers

[2912pwil]

Hi All,

Bought a 53 D4D T4 last December. Approved Toyota used car with 1yr warranty. We reported to the dealer that the aircon was not working. they took the car in and regassed it for us F.O.C. Said they could not find any leak in the system.

A couple of months later the aircon is again useless. car gets services. ask Mr T to look again at the aircon. They regas and pressure test. No leak. Could they have it back 4 weeks later to check. System filled with dye.

4 weeks later

Again aircon has leaked. aircon guy cannot find presence of dye. strips system underbonnet looking for potential problems. eventually found a return valve under battery that appeared leaking. tightened. regas and fill with dye. can they have it back in 3 weeks to test.

3 weeks later

Again aircon has leaked. aircon guy cannot find presence of dye. strips system underbonnet looking for potential problems. cannot find anything. eventually states that leak cannot be under bonnet and must be inside car.

this is were it gets interesting. so far garage has performed work "under warranty". Now the service manager asks me for more details about the car, I tell him the history and about the car being approved Toyota used car. He's not sure that the work will be covered under warranty. The next step is a dashboard strip down and they want the car for 3-4 days. He will have to speak to the warranty company and see what they say. He failed to get back to me today as promised.

I put forward an argument that I am now worried that I have been sold an approved used vehicle which is leaking gas into the passenger compartment when the car is used for transporting a baby. my g/f refuses to have the aircon on now.

My questions to you all.

what gas could be leaking into the passenger compartment?

is it hazardous?

does/should the toyota used car warranty cover repairing the aircon?

any ideas what the fault is?

I'm expecting a call from the service manager tomorrow but I'm not expecting good news. What argument should I use against the dealership if they say there's nothing that can be done?

Sounds to me like it is the evaporator that is leaking (thats the chiller part of the system inside the car). The gas leak will be fairly small and is not hazardous, can suffocate you in large quantities if it displaces the air you are breathing but that's just not gonna happen unless you've got the recharge cylinder in your car with the valve open and the windows all shut.

If the aircon is not working any more, the pressure has already leaked from the system. The low pressure switch will not allow the compressor to operate now that the gas pressure has gone, so no more gas will be pushed out of the leak by the compressor.

As for the warranty, Mr T's used car warranty states that it is virtually the same as with a new car with the exceptions of Battery and exhaust.

I quote, "All major components, both mechanical and electrical, are included. In fact, the warranty cover is virtually the same as that for a new Toyota, except that the Battery and exhaust are excluded. And youre still covered throughout the year whatever mileage you do"

So, I suppose it depends where they draw the line for 'major components'.

You are gonna have to pressure them for warranty. Good luck.

Oh, sorry forgot to say, The gas is known as R134a. 'tetrafluoroethane'. Look it up on Wikipedia for details.

See what he says over sorting it under warranty: If the answer is not to your liking you might try offerring to see them in court under the small claims process.

I find the process surprisingly simple and a quick draft printed off and presented to the offending merchant (email or hard-copy) can prompt some sensible responses, particularly if one is polite and calm (doing that took years). In my case reminding the guy that the case will be heard in MY local court and that is is the remote Highlands of Scotland can prompt movement also. I'm talking Scottish Law here, English is different & I'm not sure exactly what the differences are.

It seems to me irrespective of what the warranty says you've been sold something (car) "not of merchantable quality" and they need to fix it or compensate you somehow. See...

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_w...ses_to_help.htm

Cheers!!

[Parts-King]

It depends on your warranty documents. Read them and find out what is and isnt covered

You have had the car 10 months now, so you wont be able to reject it easily, it would now be up to you to prove it was inherrantly faulty which you wouldnt have to do up to six months of having it.

Leaks can be tricky to find, but an ultra violet lamp and special dye are used to see where the leak is coming from, you shouldnt need to strip the dash to find it. The system should be re-charged and dye added, then run the system and use the ultra violet lamp to see the general area of leakage.

Speak to the General Manager/Centre Principle and explain what is happening and how long it has been going on for, I'm sure they will come to a quick decision

Kingo

[vmssys]

*** UPDATE ***

Spoke to the General Manager at the dealership today. It had been passed for his attention. The warranty company will not say if its covered under warranty and they do not pay for diagnostic work unless a fault is found that is covered.

Seem to have heard that story before on these forums about diagnostic work not being covered.

The GM is going to look at the history of the car tomorrow and get back to me. He seemed very genuine and helpful so I've no reason to get Mr T involved as yet.

I've looked at the working of the warranty documentation earlier and regarding the aircon it states

covered : aircon compressor and assembly

does not say any more than that.

from an earlier thread posting it mentions stone damage. I would assume this would not be covered.

[Q.S.]

*** UPDATE ***

Spoke to the General Manager at the dealership today. It had been passed for his attention. The warranty company will not say if its covered under warranty and they do not pay for diagnostic work unless a fault is found that is covered.

Seem to have heard that story before on these forums about diagnostic work not being covered.

The GM is going to look at the history of the car tomorrow and get back to me. He seemed very genuine and helpful so I've no reason to get Mr T involved as yet.

I've looked at the working of the warranty documentation earlier and regarding the aircon it states

covered : aircon compressor and assembly

does not say any more than that.

from an earlier thread posting it mentions stone damage. I would assume this would not be covered.

If it was stone damage to the condenser (as Igor suggested), it should have been visible externally and would be no need for interior strip down. The condenser is mounted in front of the radiator under the bonnet and from what you said previously, they have had 4 goes under there. They would have to be very poor mechanics to miss a leak to the condenser when they have put dye into the system.

[vmssys]

*** Update ***

Car going into an alternative dealership next Saturday to have the aircon investigated by Toyota trained technicians. The dealership I have been using gets an external specialist in. Whereas the new dealership has their own kit onsite and three aircon trained technicians. They will be getting under the dash with the ultra violet light looking for evidence of a leak. This will be done F.O.C.

I'll keep you posted.

On another note my headlight bulb has blown so its off to mr T on Sat to have another fitted. Bulb costing 11.50 and free fitting.

[vmssys]

** Final Update **

Mr T had car twice again. On the first occasion (only 2 weeks since last) they could not find leak. The system was completely empty of coolant. The filled system with dye only and we ran car again for 2 weeks.

Next time they had car it had leaked but they found a split hose beneath the Battery. The Ultra Violet light found the leak!

Car was repaired next day FOC.

I saw the aircon specialist at the first garage with the Battery out but he did not find the leak after three attempts.

It seems that a second opinion in this case was well worth while!

[Q.S.]

** Final Update **

Mr T had car twice again. On the first occasion (only 2 weeks since last) they could not find leak. The system was completely empty of coolant. The filled system with dye only and we ran car again for 2 weeks.

Next time they had car it had leaked but they found a split hose beneath the battery. The Ultra Violet light found the leak!

Car was repaired next day FOC.

I saw the aircon specialist at the first garage with the battery out but he did not find the leak after three attempts.

It seems that a second opinion in this case was well worth while!

I can't believe that it took so much finding. I would be thoroughly ashamed of myself not to have found that leak after the first attempt with dye in the system. It's not rocket science, just a case of tracing and checking every pipe and component with the U.V. light.

Anyway, glad to see you have eventually got sorted.

[igormus]

** Final Update **

Mr T had car twice again. On the first occasion (only 2 weeks since last) they could not find leak. The system was completely empty of coolant. The filled system with dye only and we ran car again for 2 weeks.

Next time they had car it had leaked but they found a split hose beneath the battery. The Ultra Violet light found the leak!

Car was repaired next day FOC.

I saw the aircon specialist at the first garage with the battery out but he did not find the leak after three attempts.

It seems that a second opinion in this case was well worth while!

I can't believe that it took so much finding. I would be thoroughly ashamed of myself not to have found that leak after the first attempt with dye in the system. It's not rocket science, just a case of tracing and checking every pipe and component with the U.V. light.

Anyway, glad to see you have eventually got sorted.

agree with you mate

cheers

[Parts-King]

The dye and UV light usually does the trick, glad you got sorted out

Kingo