Toyota/lexus Diesel Difficulties

[baldboy]

Dear Diesel Auris owners,

Sniffing about on the internet I am finding many diesel Toyota/Lexus owners finding wierd starting/mpg issues that the dealers cannot fathom. The issues seem to be pot luck and revolve around poor starting, reduced power/refinement and poor mpg.

Take my SR180.

I cannot beat 40 mpg (usually 37-38) despite driving sensibly and most of my milage being dual-carriageway at 70 in 6th with the cruise locked on. We can beat that fuel economy in our 7 seat diesel 4x4.

Power and refinement is poor compared to the demonstrator.

Starting from cold if the car has been left for 6 hours or more is terrible. However once the engine fires I can kill the engine immediately and 2 seconds later the car will start perfectly - ie not related to engine temperature. The problem will not raise its head again for another 6 hours. Toyota refused to believe there was a problem until I filmed it. This is a great tip for this problem, use a digital camera to record a video clip so your dealer will beleive you and you can send it to them by e-mail.

My contact at Toyota Customer Service is Jennie Shipley. If you have this problem get onto her. If enough people want it I will upload her e-mail for you. Lets all work together and get Toyota to fix this once and for all. Know any non-Auris owners with the same problem then please point them in the direction of this post.

[hertsnminds]

Starting from cold if the car has been left for 6 hours or more is terrible. However once the engine fires I can kill the engine immediately and 2 seconds later the car will start perfectly - ie not related to engine temperature. The problem will not raise its head again for another 6 hours.

If I start my Verso from cold it will take a couple of seconds after I push the start button to attempt to turn over. Once I have had the engine running or during the summer the engine turns over as soon as the button is pressed.

I thought this was due to the glow plugs doing their job. So even the shortest of engine running times will have warmed the engine up enough for the delay in starting the engine to be reduced or non existent.

See this wiki article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glowplug

[caveman_si]

starting and MPG are probably 2 seperate issues.

MPG driving round with cruise on is gauranteed to reduce mpg, so try driving with it off. Also once warm give it thrash mighthelp clear it out and make sure your not labouring the gears another common mistake with people driving diesels.

AS for starting 6hrs left standing says to me glow plugs, (or air in the line*) are you trying to start straight off or letting the glow plugs starts? And yes it could be temperture related if you have just fired it up and then turned it off and restarted. Any combustion will raise the cyclinder temperature and hence improve starting/running.

*I doubt air leak there would be other issues like fuel everywhere.

[shuffly]

My Verso T180 suffered the same, cold starting was poor the engine started then died again.

Mt dealer performed a software upgrade and the prob has never come back. The car's only used at weekends, so sits outside all week. Even recently there's been no probs.

On the MPG, my dealer let me borrow a 140 Verso diesel when I was swapping the Aygo, and the fuel figures on the computer averaged 43mpg without trying, so its A 180 prob. The diesel in mine is alot smoother and faster though.

Ian

[baldboy]

Starting from cold if the car has been left for 6 hours or more is terrible. However once the engine fires I can kill the engine immediately and 2 seconds later the car will start perfectly - ie not related to engine temperature. The problem will not raise its head again for another 6 hours.

If I start my Verso from cold it will take a couple of seconds after I push the start button to attempt to turn over. Once I have had the engine running or during the summer the engine turns over as soon as the button is pressed.

I thought this was due to the glow plugs doing their job. So even the shortest of engine running times will have warmed the engine up enough for the delay in starting the engine to be reduced or non existent.

See this wiki article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glowplug

Sorry for the delayed reply - problems with my account.

Thanks for the link. I was my understanding that traditional glow plugs aren’t fitted to modern direct injection engines anymore (as they don’t have a swirl chamber like the old indirect units). The pre-heat is an injector type preheat which is why modern diesel preheats go out so quickly (there is much less to heat without the swirl chamber) I have tried running the preheat a couple of times before firing with no improvement.

The 2.2 unit has the new piezo type injectors which require even less heating

I have been speaking to Toyota customer service again and the car is back with the dealer for more diagnostics. The dealer is trying there best, but it is beyond the experience and equipment they have. For those who are experiencing starting difficulty, get on the to phone Toyota Customer Services (01737 367600) and get Toyota to take this seriously.

I have been given a 2.0 2008 mondeo TDCI as a courtesy vehicle. Despite hving only 2000 miles on the clock (so the engine is still a little tight), weighing over 100 kg more and being les aerodynamic than the Auris I am getting the manufacturers quoted 47 mpg out of it - interesting comparison.

[baldboy]

starting and MPG are probably 2 seperate issues.

MPG driving round with cruise on is gauranteed to reduce mpg, so try driving with it off. Also once warm give it thrash mighthelp clear it out and make sure your not labouring the gears another common mistake with people driving diesels.

AS for starting 6hrs left standing says to me glow plugs, (or air in the line*) are you trying to start straight off or letting the glow plugs starts? And yes it could be temperture related if you have just fired it up and then turned it off and restarted. Any combustion will raise the cyclinder temperature and hence improve starting/running.

*I doubt air leak there would be other issues like fuel everywhere.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll give you some more info to see if you have any more ideas - already tried the thrash idea (my thinking was to get the common rail pressure maximised) - no joy unfortunately. Most of my milage is on motorways so I find that the cruise helps with the MPG rather than hinders. On normals roads I drive 'manually' rather than using cruise.

Interestingly the dealer thought air in the fuel system as well. They re-purged the fuel system - but again, no joy.

This is our 7th diesel car and without fail have always matched or beaten the manufacturers figures for MPG so I find this very odd (See my previous post regarding the Mondeo I am currently in). Last weekend I was out in our far heavier and less aerodynamic 7-seat 4x4 and got over 40 mpg on the round trip. I like the Auris in so many ways, but this engine thing is really annoying. Right now I would happily keep the Mondeo, despite the lower power output (140PS) and lower spec.

[baldboy]

My Verso T180 suffered the same, cold starting was poor the engine started then died again.

Mt dealer performed a software upgrade and the prob has never come back. The car's only used at weekends, so sits outside all week. Even recently there's been no probs.

On the MPG, my dealer let me borrow a 140 Verso diesel when I was swapping the Aygo, and the fuel figures on the computer averaged 43mpg without trying, so its A 180 prob. The diesel in mine is alot smoother and faster though.

Ian

Interesting - I saw a similar post from an IS220 owner. I'll pass the info onto the dealer.

Cheers BB

[TPK77]

Interesting indeed. This weekend i took a little trip to countryside alone and i tried to drive economically. 809km and average 4.3l/100km, with oem size 205/55/16 winter tires. I was totally impressed! Car is -08 2.0 d4d Corolla with 19000km on clock. :D

[auris2008]

Interesting indeed. This weekend i took a little trip to countryside alone and i tried to drive economically. 809km and average 4.3l/100km, with oem size 205/55/16 winter tires. I was totally impressed! Car is -08 2.0 d4d Corolla with 19000km on clock. :D

I have AURIS 1.6 LUX MMT 2008 and do many trips to countryside alone - MORE THEN 870 KM in one tank = average 17 KM/l.

Surly it must be in "drive-economically style" = 100 km/h average speed , two persons , without racing with other cars , not very high hills and so.

But this is the best way to enjoy the road ( we have plenty of great view-road in israel) and with the best music from my Ipod which is connected to the audio system .

[GreyRacer]

There has been so much written negatively on this forum about poor consumption on the T180 /SRs. Just troll back through to see it all. I'm a typical Scottish Borders driver. Fast. I get exactly what is written on the tin if I want to do so. It's not the car. It's the driving style.

[baldboy]

There has been so much written negatively on this forum about poor consumption on the T180 /SRs. Just troll back through to see it all. I'm a typical Scottish Borders driver. Fast. I get exactly what is written on the tin if I want to do so. It's not the car. It's the driving style.

I don't have a problem with that, driving style makes a huge difference. But why is it when I drive a 2 tonne 7 seat 4x4 I get 40 mpg, the same roads give me 47 mpg in Mondeo yet the smaller, lighter and more aerodynamic Auris gives 37mpg (the same as a friends automatic 330d). Even taking the Mondeo for a good cross country thrash results in >40mpg.

Fundmentally my complaint is that the car does not work properly rather than specifically MPG. I bet yours starts first time every time rather than having to be coaxed coughing and spluttering into life.

[GreyRacer]

There has been so much written negatively on this forum about poor consumption on the T180 /SRs. Just troll back through to see it all. I'm a typical Scottish Borders driver. Fast. I get exactly what is written on the tin if I want to do so. It's not the car. It's the driving style.

I don't have a problem with that, driving style makes a huge difference. But why is it when I drive a 2 tonne 7 seat 4x4 I get 40 mpg, the same roads give me 47 mpg in Mondeo yet the smaller, lighter and more aerodynamic Auris gives 37mpg (the same as a friends automatic 330d). Even taking the Mondeo for a good cross country thrash results in >40mpg.

Fundmentally my complaint is that the car does not work properly rather than specifically MPG. I bet yours starts first time every time rather than having to be coaxed coughing and spluttering into life.

I must be very lucky. My 180 is 17 months old now and owned it since new. It has never failed to start first time in all conditions. I've had the squeaky brake problems which were solved but absolutely nothing else has failed, broken or fallen off.

I get immence pleasure driving it although on the Border roads I could do with it being stiffer without lowering it.

I would be interested to know what garage you use. Being in the same part of the world as me there are only two, one east, one west.

[baldboy]

There has been so much written negatively on this forum about poor consumption on the T180 /SRs. Just troll back through to see it all. I'm a typical Scottish Borders driver. Fast. I get exactly what is written on the tin if I want to do so. It's not the car. It's the driving style.

I don't have a problem with that, driving style makes a huge difference. But why is it when I drive a 2 tonne 7 seat 4x4 I get 40 mpg, the same roads give me 47 mpg in Mondeo yet the smaller, lighter and more aerodynamic Auris gives 37mpg (the same as a friends automatic 330d). Even taking the Mondeo for a good cross country thrash results in >40mpg.

Fundmentally my complaint is that the car does not work properly rather than specifically MPG. I bet yours starts first time every time rather than having to be coaxed coughing and spluttering into life.

I must be very lucky. My 180 is 17 months old now and owned it since new. It has never failed to start first time in all conditions. I've had the squeaky brake problems which were solved but absolutely nothing else has failed, broken or fallen off.

I get immence pleasure driving it although on the Border roads I could do with it being stiffer without lowering it.

I would be interested to know what garage you use. Being in the same part of the world as me there are only two, one east, one west.

It was bought from Western Toyota at Edinburgh. I played most of the dealers north of Birmingham off against one another for the best deal and ultimately my local dealer (Border Toyota at St Boswells) couldn't match the deal Western offered. So far I have given Western the nod at fixing it as they know the history. To be fair to Western they are trying, but it is a really difficult problem to solve as you get one shot a day at trying to diagnose it.

I know what you mean about stiffening the car up though, my previous car was a Cooper S and that was a hoot on the border roads, but the time came to trade in as the money to swap to the Toyota made just too much sense. I hoped that my SR180 would be a hot hatch for sensible people. My thinking was that it may not be brash and in your face; but in day to day conditions on real roads it would be quiet, comfortable and (once over 20 mph) that 400nm of torque should be able to give the more hard core hot hatches a seriously hard time. I hope that in time it lives up to my hopes. :(

[Cablechap]

I get immence pleasure driving it although on the Border roads I could do with it being stiffer without lowering it.

With the standard T180 lowered springs the vehicle is 1505mm high.

The SR180 is 1480mm, and the uprated springs are interchangeable with the T180.

Depends if you can afford to drop it 25mm (1") on the roads and parking areas you use up there. Maybe baldboy can advise his experience with his SR180 handling in your region?

[baldboy]

The SR180 lowered, stiffened and multilink rear setup is miles ahead of the T180 torsion bar equiped car that I drove and is there is no impact on comfort or road noise that I have observed. I find it surprising that Toyota even opted for a torsion bar on a new design. It is cheaper, but not that much and the multilink is much more stable and predictable. Coming from a Cooper S I would have linked it firmer still, but overall the setup is quite a good compromise between cruising, comfort and fun.

Update overall. The car is still in the garage and I am now 3 weeks in the hire car provided by Mr T. I have to admit that although I had to really spit out the dummy with Mr T to get a response, they do now appear to be pulling out all of the stops to fix it.

[Cablechap]

It must just be the stiffened springs you noticed as the T180 has the multi-link rear setup as well. Greyracer can have confidence in fitting the lowered springs then. Hope you get your car back soon.

[DigiMan]

Today I went on a 400mi trip and I got a very low & nice consumption of 53,5mpg, cruise control set at 70 mph (on GPS) for most of the time.

My car has got 29000 miles under the belt now, it consumes 250-300ml of oil in 6000mi, no starting problems at all it was -12 monday evening.

I am feeling pretty satisfied now when the brakes are sorted out.

[baldboy]

Latest update.

Mr T couldn't replicate the problem after a month with the car. So I got it back plus one IT2 unit and a crash course on taking snapshots. Within a couple of days I was able to get the snapshot of the problem so the IT2 went back with the data and it's over to Mr T again.......

[moonstone mart]

Latest update.

Mr T couldn't replicate the problem after a month with the car. So I got it back plus one IT2 unit and a crash course on taking snapshots. Within a couple of days I was able to get the snapshot of the problem so the IT2 went back with the data and it's over to Mr T again.......

They lent you an IT2? :o Must have some trust in you.

Mart.

[baldboy]

Latest update.

Mr T couldn't replicate the problem after a month with the car. So I got it back plus one IT2 unit and a crash course on taking snapshots. Within a couple of days I was able to get the snapshot of the problem so the IT2 went back with the data and it's over to Mr T again.......

They lent you an IT2? :o Must have some trust in you.

Mart.

I take it from your post that these things are worth a few pennies then?

[moonstone mart]

Latest update.

Mr T couldn't replicate the problem after a month with the car. So I got it back plus one IT2 unit and a crash course on taking snapshots. Within a couple of days I was able to get the snapshot of the problem so the IT2 went back with the data and it's over to Mr T again.......

They lent you an IT2? :o Must have some trust in you.

Mart.

I take it from your post that these things are worth a few pennies then?

Yeh, a couple of grand if its a proper IT2 like we use.

Mart.