Has Anyone Fitted A Double-din From Pioneer Or Kenwood?

[jonnyspin]

I've just been looking into this and at first glance, it looks like Kenwood are cheaper (starting £530), but Pioneer have more features such as speed cameras?

I don't need bluetooth, but would like ipod and steering wheel control flexibility, and european maps...

Does anyone have any experience of research, fitting and /or recommendations?

cheers

[dave.m]

Dont know the actual model but Bitman has fitted a Kenwood, Hoovie may have as well.

[jonnyspin]

also - they look cheap on eBay from US, but obviously, there may be slight differences, including the maps - can you get euro maps? if so, how much?

[Hoovie]

Dont know the actual model but Bitman has fitted a Kenwood, Hoovie may have as well.

Correct

Installed very easily as well.

Just post what you want to know and we will try and answer ;)

[jonnyspin]

any pics?

does the steering wheel button unit interface?

what made you decide on this one...

where has the best prices?

er....

[Hoovie]

This is my take on it .....

The choice was between Pioneer and Kenwood rather then other makes as they offered better integration features - namely the Steering Wheel control compatibility.

I don't have that feature connected as yet for two reasons:

It needs an extra cost adapter costing around £60 or so; and being that a lot of the controls are on the touch screen, I wondered how useful it really would be other then on the volume adjustment side. So I decided to wait and see how much I am missing steering wheel controls.

Answer? Yup, I'm missing them, but not making me hunt out the adapter quite yet

The reason I went for a replacement unit is that my dash was getting a bit messy .... iPod Cradle connected in; TomTom SatNav on a cradle the other side; Jambra hands-free bluetooth on the sun-visor; thinking about fitting either reversing sensors but really would have preferred a rear-view camera which means a display mounted

So looked for replacement unit that could do everything, and the Kenwood DNX5220BT fitted the bill and has very good reviews, plus I knew others had fitted successfully in the RAV4s.

I bought the Kenwood Unit from eBay - mine was actually from a private seller who had only had it 3 months and decided to upgrade to a Pioneer unit with a bigger screen and a built-in Hard Drive (worse Pimper then me ). I did actually collect from his house and he showed me the new unit and I checked over the Kenwood before handing over the readies.

Also bought the iPod Video cable on-line (as the Apple cable doesn't seem to work for anyone, despite the fact it IS meant to) and for £20 the video cable was an ok price and gives the potential to play Videos on the screen saved on the iPod.

Also on-line bought the Toyota-ISO adapter (about £4?) and the side fillers for the mounting to deal with the Toyota "Wide 2-Din" fitting. they are around £14 I think?

Satellite Navigation on the Kenwood is Garmin and is exactly like a Garmin Sat-Nav unit. The map on mine is Europe and is claimed to be very comprehensive and covers areas that many other makes (including OEM ones) do not.

I never considered a Toyota Sat-Nav unit because of the cost of map updates even apart from the actual cost of the Toyota full-screen units - The Garmin map is updatable very easily and very cheaply in comparison, not that I have bothered yet.

When it comes to Speed Safety Cameras, PocketGPS have a comprehensive Speed Safety Camera database and a loader that will take that database and transfer it onto the Kenwood. Works very simply and very well; took maybe 30 minutes in total to get the DB, burn it to CD and then have the Kenwood add it to the unit as a Camera POI file. You need to subscribe to PocketGPS to get the database, but that is only £1.99 a month and you could cancel after 1 month if you want, I would think.

The Garmin Sat-nav map display is not as asthetically pleasing as the TomTom unit, IMO but the actual navigation itself is very good and I feel a little better. Not sure about the Pioneer Sat-Nav.

The bluetooth is a Parrot bluetooth intergrated within the unit and seems pretty good. I use a Phone when driving very little, but if it does ring, I want to be able to see who's calling, answer it safely, hear it clearly and hang up easily - the Kenwood unit allows all that

So the unit I bought has the following features that I actually specifically wanted:

1. Sat Nav
   
2. iPod Compatibility (Full control over all tracks, songs, playlists, generes, etc)
   
3. Bluetooth hands-free
   
4. Reversing Camera input (add in a camera from eBay for about £20-£30)
   

Also has DVD Playback, which is actually very nice and while in a way is a bit of a gimmick, is nice to have B)

If you don't want Bluetooth, then the DNX5520 omits that, but I would say unless that is quite a bit cheaper, stay with the DNX5220BT one as if you change your mind about needing it, the Bluetooth Add-on module probably is not cheap!

A few Pics for you ...

Kenwood Unit in dash showing the Sat Nav display

Playing a DVD

Reversing Camera view

You will see that as standard, the front does stand proud - this is meant to be like that and admittedly looks a little odd at first. It is possible to redrill the Toyota mounting brackets with new holes 10mm nearer the front and using those new holes, the unit can be mounted flush - I have not done that, but may do if I get the optional bezel that makes the Kenwood 2-Din front directly match the Toyota Wide 2-Din aperture (but for about £35 for a piece of flat plastic with a square hole in it, I am currently refusing out of principle )

I hope this helps ;)

[jonnyspin]

looks cracking...

I will have a look around for prices.

I may have a dension ipod adpater for sale soon...

[St Thicket]

also - they look cheap on ebay from US, but obviously, there may be slight differences, including the maps - can you get euro maps? if so, how much?

I won't recommend buying a US spec stereo, since they use different FM frequencies compared to europe. Also, maps aren't cheap, so you might be better off getting an european stereo.

[shcm]

I won't recommend buying a US spec stereo, since they use different FM frequencies compared to europe. Also, maps aren't cheap, so you might be better off getting an european stereo.

Really?.......and here I am thinking that the FM broadcast band frequencies were by international agreement and that only Japan and Eastern Europe (old Soviet block) were the main difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_band#ITU_R...annel_Numbering

In fact a lot (if not all) of Eastern Europe has moved over to the ITU (International Telecoms Union) band plan.

I believe the US system also uses similar deviation levels and the 19kHz pilot tone approach for the stereo bit.

Yes, still probably better off with EU spec stereo though.

[bitman]

i have them both and i must say that the kenwood is better then the pioneer... even with the latest firmware update v1.900. the only reason i have the pioneer in my box is that i can hack it B) well also the kenwood is hackable ^_^ don't tell the missus.

the bluetooth of the kenwood is by far better then the pioneer. you can even send and receive sms messages (if you use the right gsm). also you can send dtmf tones to open your voice box etc. or take the call back to the gsm if you want to have a privacy call. all things where the pioneer can only dream of.

the sat nav of the pioneer is more accurate since it uses the speedpulse and has a very good gyroscope. when you miss a turn within a couple meters it knows you are off course.

you talk about the avic-f700bt, this unit doesn't have dvd so no hoovie movies in the car.

anyway they both fit well in the dash. i have installed both gps antennas on the roof next the the radio antenna.

[Hoovie]

anyway they both fit well in the dash. i have installed both gps antennas on the roof next the the radio antenna.

I'll just mention where I put my GPS antenna out of completeness ...

I tucked mine under the headlining right in front of the rear-view mirror, running the lead along the lining and down the A-piller behind the capping, so nice & neat and out of view. The GPS Antenna lead seems plenty long enough to allow it to route just about anywhere in the car.

And also thanks to bitman for his advice prior to my installation

[jonnyspin]

Hoovie, I have some more Qs, if you have time:

1. can the unit drive rear screens for dvd playback?

2. Would I need to buy a fitting kit specific to the RAV?

3. Do I need a special loom adapter?

4. What happens if I don't use those fillets?

How muh does all that extra stuff cost - thanks!

[Hoovie]

Hoovie, I have some more Qs, if you have time:

1. can the unit drive rear screens for dvd playback?

2. Would I need to buy a fitting kit specific to the RAV?

3. Do I need a special loom adapter?

4. What happens if I don't use those fillets?

How muh does all that extra stuff cost - thanks!

1. can the unit drive rear screens for dvd playback?

Yes. The unit has a Video Out and Stereo Audio Out (all 3 with RCA connections). I tested the Video out feature by connecting it to my PCs TV Composite Source input and had a DVD playing on both the units screen and my PCs screen.

This is actually a very flexible feature as you can decide what source you want the Video Out to come from. The logical one is DVD, but you could set it to be iPod or USB or even the Video In.

To drive one external screen, you would just connect the leads into the screen - to drive a pair, I would guess you would need a splitter for the signals?

BTW - I have seen some very nice looking pairs of rear screens built into headrests that could blend in nicely in the RAV - maybe worth a go ;)

2. Would I need to buy a fitting kit specific to the RAV?

Assuming you mean the main unit here? No - the physical mounting is done by removing the brackets from the OEM unit and reusing them on the Kenwood - perfect fit

3. Do I need a special loom adapter?

Again, assuming you mean the main unit here? Get a Toyota-ISO adapter lead and that is all you need. The Ariel lead is directly usable. you could get away without an adapter by cutting and patching lots of wires but that would be a very pointless exercise given the very low cost of the adapters.

4. What happens if I don't use those fillets?

You have holes the size of them by each side :D These fillers actually mount onto the side of the radio - there is no easy way to fit plain flat fillers. I have seen pics of silver mesh or similar being used - choice is yours, but I think you will end up wanting the fillers if you are not a bad hand at fabrication. It is only 5 minutes work to whip out the radio, so nothing to stop you trying without or with a home made solution and then if you don't like, get these afterwards.

Fillers and loom - £20 or so together?

Check eBay for rear screens - masses of choices

Have fun!!!

[Dippy]

Can I join in with a range of random questions, after the great info above? I'm seriously looking at putting one of the Kenwoods in my 4.3 to replace my radio/CD.

1. I already have Toyota BT kit installed, but a) have no idea how to use it (no instructions, and configuration is all in Spanish ), and b ) I don't have a phone button on the right of the steering wheel, only the volume/prog and Mode ones on the left. I'm assuming it would probably be better to get the Kenwood BT option for full use of all features rather than trying to patch the two together. Would I benefit from paying Toyota to put the phone button on the wheel as well? (Max two calls a week made this way - I think that biases the answer already...)

2. Apart from saving money, is there any reason to go for the smaller screen rather than the larger screen (5xxx or 7/8xxx) - personal preference for knobs that twiddle rather than problematic touchscreens, etc? Serious question.

3. bitman, I thought the Kenwood also had some sort of gyroscope/ speed pulse sensor? Does it not work? Sounds brilliant for loss of signal in (short?) tunnels.

4. I read on the Kenwood spec something about potential for garage door controls. Anyone know anything? I looked at the Toyota Homelink, but they don't offer a control for my particular make of garage door so at present I still have the fob inside the car.

5. Anyone ever concerned about theft of these things, and how to prevent it (a simple cover might do). I asked an installer at the same time I got a quote, he said he hasn't heard of any being stolen as many cars won't accept double-din, so there's little market for them.

6. How easy is it for an idiot to install? I can handle a screwdriver and multiplugs, but I'm nervous about headlinings. I've been quoted about a hundred and fifty quid for installation. Actually I wasn't, but it's the price difference between buying it from an installer and from a dirt cheap electronics supplier without installation.

Thanks for any answers!

Dippy

[Hoovie]

Hi Dippy,

I will answer with my own opinions on the bits I have an opinion on :) if i don't mention something, means I have no idea. I have no doubts others on the forum can help equally well or probably better (I just happen to be on line right now ;) )

1) ?

2) Actually, I too prefer the security and predicatablity of buttons over touchscreen. Having said that, the Kenwood touch screen works well and that technology generally as improved tremendously over the last few years.

3) there is definately no connnction to the vehicles speed sensor, I can confirm that. What is internal to the unit more then the GPS input? - personally, I don't know. Hopefully bitman can confirm?

4) ?

5) This also concerns me to a degree I live in a reasonable quiet area so am not massively concerned day to day, but if I were to park in a more suspect area ...... Hmmm

One thing I have been consdiering is taking a photo of the original unit and making a cover with that printed on it. may fool a passing opportunist?

6) when it came to the GPS antenna under the headling, it really was a matter of just sliding it in and feeding the cable along. At no time did I remove any headling. most I did in this area was pop off the A-Pillar cover and push it back on.

I've got no experience of the RAV4.3 but I have no doubt that with your willingness and the people on this forum providing assistance and guidence as needed, you will not need a dealer or installer

I now have a question on the Kenwood DNX5220BT unit myself...... :)

I have a mobile phone paired with the unit (HTC S620 Windows Smartphone) and for the last day, when I turn on the igintion and the head unit powers up, after a few seconds the audio mutes and it goes to the On-Screen Phone display and says "Calling" and I have to hit the big "Hangup" button - then the screen goes back to the normal display.

The phone is not actually calling and it didn't do this before yesterday (and I am not aware I have changed any settings on the bluetooth on either Kenwood OR mobile)

Any ideas?

[Dippy]

Thanks for that Hoovie

Buttons - I do now see that the 5xxx has the disc slot visible, whereas the 8xxx hides it behind a motorised screen - which I don't like.

Re speed sensor - I just had to look around in my bookmarks, finally found it: http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/p...ts_id/5810.html

Look at the section near the bottom "performance features". But it's true that Kenwood's own site don't list such things! Hmm, porkies??

Printing a photo of the old unit - exactly what I had in mind too :D

I'll wait for other feedback :)

Dippy

[Jsy_Rav4]

Just to add my 2p worth...

I've also fitted a Kenwood DNX-5220BT (Amazon originally lost mine, but got it from another dealer over here in Jersey instead - although the Amazon price is very good...)

I installed the GPS receiver antenna in the same location recommended in the Toyota GPS install guides (see techdocs on Toyota website) - ie in the instrument binnacle (just drop the steering wheel using the adjuster lever and pull off the "silver" surround).. works a treat and is dead easy to route cabling etc as you don't need to remove any trims around the windscreen etc.

Reverse signal and handbrake control lines are found on the 5 pin connector (unused on the original head unit) at pins 1 and 5 (see other post under Hoovie's thread on this subject). So no need to route cables to the back or handbrake either...

I also mounted the USB lead in a spare switch position blanking plate - (will add photo's later) - easy to plug in a USB drive with MP3s on it etc. Reverse camera mounted next to the number plate lamps on the protrusion on the bumper moulding - only 3 small holes to drill and requires removing the back door interior trim. You need to be very careful removing the bumper if you do this as I broke a couple of mountings and had to epoxy them back on. Managed to get the power lines from the drivers side rear lamp cluster wiring and just had to run one video cable from the rear to the dash location using the same route taken by the wiring loom and washer pipe. Again - instructions for routing these cables are found on various publications on the Techdocs site.

The Kenwood unit works a treat (although I have not connected the steering mounted controls either yet for the same reason as Hoovie) - I notice there is also a Connects2 module that is reputed to work with Toyotas and this head unit for around £22 inc connection cable to the head unit.

I love the screen display on the Garmin Sat Nav module and have used Parrot bluetooth modules before and found them excellent. Call quality is very good, although it is annoying being unable to access the phonebook on the unit without having the handbrake on. You can insert a switch to 0V (car bodywork) to enable this to be overridden (and this would also allow DVDs to be played whilst driving - definately not recommended as this is illegal)

The dual zone function means that if you have headrest mounted screens your back seat passengers can watch a DVD whilst you see the satnav etc. There are quite a few headrest sets with mounted screens available on fleabay for around £100 - may be tempted by a pair of these in the near future.

The side panels are available from Toyota dealers and the part numbers can be found on the Toyodiy.com website at the following link http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_2004_TOYO...WMNYW_8601.html and just clip onto the standard mounting plates... cost me around £14 as I recall (but no VAT over here)

The wiring loom was a simple Toyota - ISO connection lead from Autoparts, which I sourced from CPC (www.cpc.co.uk) but are available from most good Car Audio suppliers and fleabay.

I have obtained a spare switch from fleabay (from an earlier RAV4 - the centre diff lock switch) which I'm going to use to override the handbrake at some point - "just in case"... that cost a whopping £5 inc postage - has single pole changeover contacts plus illumination so should be suitable (wire the head unit to the "common" tag then ground the n/o contact and take the handbrake signal to the n/c contact - push in the switch to over-ride)

The reverse camera is quite useful, but it takes a bit of time to get used to the view and judge distances - you don't get the "tramlines" you see with factory fitted units.... although you can get graphics overlay units to superimpose these although they're not cheap (around £200?) and I doubt if they "flex" depending on steering position like the factory installed units I've seen.

If you're thinking of the Pioneer unit, I've read a few posts elsewhere that it is very slow starting up (windows CE embedded) and it can take up to a minute even to get radio etc). Also seen posts about it crashing (the head unit, not the car) and needing to be re-set by turning off the ignition and re-starting. The Kenwood is very easy to use and the touch screen works well, although I do appreciate a manual volume control rather than on-screen buttons.. much more convenient. Sound quality is good, even with the factory Speakers - upgrades on the way - instructions for fitting these can be found on the RAV4World site)

[anchorman]

Instructions for Toyota Bluetooth;

http://techdoc.toyota-europe.com/legacy/To...20-00296-EN.pdf

I think the Homelink can learn remote controls. It is more popular in the USA but you can find out more here;

http://www.home-security-action.co.uk/gara...oor-opener.html

This shows where the RAV 4.3 antenna is fitted;

http://techdoc.toyota-europe.com/legacy/To...M_001_061_0.pdf

This shows how to run a wire up the A pillar and miss the curtain airbag;

http://techdoc.toyota-europe.com/legacy/To...000%20583-0.pdf

[Hoovie]

Sound quality is good, even with the factory speakers - upgrades on the way - instructions for fitting these can be found on the RAV4World site)

I was quite surprised at the improvement in sound quality with the head unit exchange, as I expected the Speakers to be the limiting factor. I am sure the factory Speakers are still not fantastic though, so also plan on swapping out the front and rear Speakers are sometime and the sound then should be REALLY good, I reckon.

Have you identified a particular speaker that you intend fitting yet, Jsy_Rav4?

[Jsy_Rav4]

Hoovie

Just bought some Sony 17cm Speakers (they were on special offer over here) as sourcing the Kenwood ones I was looking at was proving difficult (out of stock for over a month). Will let you know what the difficulty of removing the panels is and the max mounting depth etc.. I suspect the Kenwood ones I was looking at might have been too deep anyway.

[jonnyspin]

Sorry guys, I'm parking this project as I've just bought a 2nd hand optional satnav of the same vintage as my 2005 Boxster for my (credit card company's) £500 so my current project is swapping out the radio I have for that.

I'll revist this later and keep track of this thread with interest.

[Hoovie]

Good luck with installing that

[bitman]

3. one of the only kenwood with speedpulse connection is the KNA-G520 what is a separate box what will be more accurate then the once without when driving in tunnels. i know since i done some long tunnels like Mont Blanc Tunnel with this kenwood gps box. as for portugal i don't know any tunnel that long over there so you won't have a problem. the newer decks all have the SiRFstarIII chips and are fine. this is the reason why kenwood decks don't have speedpulse any more.

[Hoovie]

Bitman, have you any idea how to mute the bluetooth connected phone from the Kenwood Head Unit? I cannot see any option to do this and could find no mention in the manual (that desperate, I actually read it!!).

As an aside, I find the GPS a bit funny sometimes

When I start the car and drive off, it can be up to 10 minutes before it picks up enough satellites to get a position (not sure if driving off before waiting for a fix is a factor here).

BUT ... once it picks up the signals, it really holds onto them - I maintained a good signal whilst driving up and down a 7 storey car park which most surprised me.

[shcm]

When I start the car and drive off, it can be up to 10 minutes before it picks up enough satellites to get a position (not sure if driving off before waiting for a fix is a factor here).

Just a thought. It kind of sounds like the GPS is starting from "cold" everytime.

You probably know a lot of GPS receivers quote time from "cold" or "warm" to first fix. The "warm" one being quicker, because it assumes you are still in the same position, as when it was switched off.

You don't have a permanent Battery feed to the unit, that is not connected do you? i.e. something that is used amongst other things, to keep the GPS memory active?