Toyota Dealer Ripping Me Off?

[milka]

Please help,

About a month ago, I had a problem with a air flow sensor on bank 2. I thought I could change it myself but opted on the safer option of getting toyota dealer to sort and check the pre cats at the same time, as I have read quite a few problems with these on the forums. Needless to say this cost me a arm and a leg but I slept well knowing that Toyota had given it the all clear. Then yesturday I was driving along and all of a sudden I had lost all power to the engine above 2000rpm. I had to get it towed back to the garage with the AA man saying that my Engine was starved of air. Toyota then looked at it and said that I needed a new CAT and that mine had completely broken up blocking the exhaust gasses. My first thought was that the pre cat had gone and then bits had broken off and destroyed the main cat. So i was a bit peeved since only a month ago they said my pre cats where fine. Then I get a call back from them saying that my MR2 never had a precat.. I for sure never took it out myself! and its not a import or strange off shoot model.

So a few questions,

Do all mr2 s have precats?

What the hell did they check and give the all ok to, on the last visit?

And what are my options (really dont want to pay them £1050 for a new cat) e.g Is it illegal to drive without a cat? Can I get the job done cheaper?

Thanks in advance.

matt

[GIDDLEPIN]

Hi Matt

Sorry to hear of your troubles and I'll try to answer as best I can.

Do all mr2 s have precats? Yes they do

What the hell did they check and give the all ok to, on the last visit? I would hope they actually knew what they were looking for and if not you will need to take this up with them.

And what are my options (really dont want to pay them £1050 for a new cat) e.g Is it illegal to drive without a cat? Can I get the job done cheaper? I don't know if you read my SLAPA IS POORLY post but it does explain a couple of the problems I suffered and the resulting repairs, one of them being a new sports cat. Like you I needed a new cat and after looking at various options from new (you know how much) to second hand (anywhere from £200 to £500) The sportscat option cost me £175.

Regarding the precat scare stories, I have never agreed with the opinion that they destroy engines, I know they can break up but this is usually after engine damage is already done, one of the main causes being early (pre 2002 I think) piston ring design, below are a couple of bits of information regarding this.

...and removed. You can see the varnsh / gum / tar mixture that binded the rings up and caused oil usage

Nearly finished cleaning stuff up. To be continued soon.....

A prime demonstration of why a good synthetic is a good idea. I have never seen so much gunk on the inside of an engine owned by me. Having said that, I have seen a lot more on engines owned by others that I have rebuilt. Could it bet that the famous precat failure is caused by gummed oil control rings?

Chris

Wear due to piston side-load

Piston rings are subject to wear as they move up and down the cylinder bore. To minimize this, they are made of wear resistant materials such as cast iron and steel and coated or treated to enhance the wear resistance. Two-stroke port design is critical to ring life. Newer modern motorcycle manufacturers have many single function but sererated ports to retain the ring. Typically, top ring and oil control rings will be coated with Chromium, or Nitrided-possibly plasma sprayed or have a PVD (physical vapour deposit) ceramic coating. For enhanced scuff resistance and further improved wear, most modern diesel engines have top rings coated with a modified chromium coating known as CKS, a patent coating from Goetze. The lower oil control ring is designed to leave a lubricating oil film, a few micrometres thick on the bore,as the piston descends. Three piece oil rings, i.e. with two rails and one spacer, are used for four-stroke gasoline engines.

It is possible that the previous owner (if you are not the first owner) removed the precats because of these reports and the the dealer never checked, if so ther could be an issue with any claim because of the removal.

Or, the precats were intact when they examined them at your request and they have since broken up causing a blockage to the main cat, and depending on the year of your car you might have a claim, this would still cause some concern though as I said, they only break up for a reason.

Good luck with the outcome and please keep us informed.

Les

[curriedb]

Sorry to read about your problems Matt. Les has addressed the 'pre-cat' issues.

I was wondering what mileage your car has done? I ask because main cats DO fail on many cars - as I discovered when I owned a Ford Galaxy people carrier. It suddenly started to lose power...and it turned out the CAT had broken up and blocked the exhaust. The car had done around 85k.

You mention that Toyota replaced a Bank 2 sensor. Failure of a pre-cat sensor can lead to an increase in fuel mixture - which could result in contamination of the main cat...leading to overheating and eventual failure of the cat.

Nevertheless there still remains the mystery of the 'missing' pre-cats...

As Les says you can get a cat for circa £200. Here's an example: http://www.japparts4less.co.uk/search_results.php

Good luck

Dave

[milka]

After much back and forth, Toyota have narrowed the problem to the PRE CAT! a chunk of it had broken off and lodged itself before the main Cat ( Found debris from manifold blocking cat converter, require new maniford , checked for damge to cat none found) So they replaced the engine manifold + gaskets total including Vat £686. Which is a lot of money but still not as bad as replacing the cat, and I count my lucky stars that there has not been any Engine damage, as I have read in previous posts.

However this is a very concerning problem that could have been spotted when I asked them to check my pre cats, but I didn't have any more fight in me to claim this one back as the pre cat inspection was only visual :(

Unfortunatly now one of my 02 sensors is dead which I can replace myself.

Also looking for anyone who may knows of a garage/person who will remove my pre cats. In the watford area! I dont want to take any more chances !!

Many thanks for all your help toc peeps.

Rgs

Matt