Buying Advice

[snowjoke]

Hello forums!

I'm thinking of getting a used 5-door RAV4. Currently have my eye on a couple of different ones. I don't do many miles (3000 per year max) so fuel economy isn't a big factor.

One is a late 2002 diesel GX with 50k on the clock going for £5950 from a dealer (non-Toyota). That includes 3 months' warranty - another 12 months is £250. Seems like quite a clean example - one owner, regularly serviced, all receipts.

Thing that worries me is the stories of DMF failure. I checked the VIN against the ones given in the pinned topic and it's after the August 2002 changes were made so there might be less risk there, but there are also reports in this forum of post-2002 failures. The car has a towbar fitted which might be useful at some point, but is an additional risk factor for DMF failure.

Also I hear that the diesel has a timing belt rather than the chain as in the petrol version. What age/mileage does this need to be replaced at, and is it an expensive job?

The other is a late 2004 petrol XT4 with 22k miles, going for £8450 from a Toyota dealer. I think the dealer will take £7850 but is unwilling to go lower. This includes 12 months' warranty. Seems in good condition overall, although there are some scratches on the bonnet and an area on the wing where it looks like someone's tried to polish it with a wire brush. You can't see the marks from a distance and I think a lot of this will come out with a good machine polish, but it's never going to be perfect without a respray.

Another weird thing about it was that in the service book it had zero mileage for over a year and a half after registration, whereupon it had its first two services (for warranty reasons apparently) and was sold. The dealer thinks this is because it was "pre-registered" but we don't know what it was doing for those first 20 months.

There are also a few petrol XT3s I've seen around the £7000 mark with 40k on the clock, but I would be willing to pay a bit extra for an XT4 because I like the leather trim, and traction control sounds good but not sure how useful it is in reality.

Any thoughts welcome... I'm not very decisive! Is the diesel too risky? Does the pre-registration story sound dodgy? What should I be paying for these?

[bothwell_buyer]

Welcome to this forum, o person in Bucks. Now does that mean you have loads of bucks, or just live there?? Must be the former the way you're splashing the dough!! Speaking of dough, I can see you don't want to buy a freal pancake of a RAV, despite the fact its a 5 door lump of bread you're looking for.

I had the pleasure ( :P ) of driving a diesel one earlier this year when some of us met in Warrington. Nice and smooth as you'd expect but me being used to flooring the beast was disappointed. Mileage on these cars doesn't matter all that much so I'd take that out of the equation. What you need to do is weigh up the value of features as they come in your list of priorities. At such a low mileage, diesel doesn't have any advantage - will you ever get the car up to operating temp to burn off the dieselly deposits and keep the oil running free???? A petrol might just be a bit more tolerant.

Timing belts - generally these things need replaced at 60000 miles and anchorman has posted how you do it on this forum. If I remember its done in situ....= a skoosh!

Check the low mileage for things that happen when a cars lying around - like any rust/dampness in floor carpeting; brake disc being scored (visual check is fine); and has the leather been left to get dry in the sun.

Must admit, I'd try to go for the latest model partly for the bells and whistles; that the bits may have been upgraded from previous models; and that the metalwork is younger. Now that the good old Scottish chancellor is not hiking road tax for a while, then this can be discounted (like the pun eh??).

I have traction control on my old RAV, but I also call it adjustable KONIs If you watched TV at the weekend and saw them rolling a Range Rover at 45mph by a simple avoidance measure on road, then traction control will be worth it if you are an erratic driver.....

And check prices - you can go online to people like exchange and mart and any who advertise on this website, or anyone else like fleebay

have fun!

[Plutus]

If you are only doing 3,000m per year then to me petrol seems the way to go.

Usually a used petrol model is 10% cheaper (maybe more, I'm not up to date) and the price of diesel is

still £0.14 p.l. more so you have to do at least 12+ miles p.a to justify the extra cost.

With diesels you have the added risk of DMF failure and there also seems to be currently an issue about the turbos.

Servicing is (I think) more expensive.

The petrol engine is well proven and good for many miles. (200k).

As far as the £8450 one is concerned it seems to me to be very expensive. Also, the service record would put me off.

The current state of the economy means that 4 x 4 - petrol ones in particular are not selling and you should get a very good deal. OK, from a Toyota dealer you get the excellent one year warranty but even so, a quick look at the used section of the Toyota website reveals better deals even at the initial asking price.

Also, don't discount the XTR models. They are XT3's with extras including traction control (but not leather) and cruise control which is handy on the motorway.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[bothwell_buyer]

And do remember to ask about Hinge Insurance for all those doors!!! :P

[Hoovie]

...........

There are also a few petrol XT3s I've seen around the £7000 mark with 40k on the clock, but I would be willing to pay a bit extra for an XT4 because I like the leather trim, and traction control sounds good but not sure how useful it is in reality.

Any thoughts welcome... I'm not very decisive! Is the diesel too risky? Does the pre-registration story sound dodgy? What should I be paying for these?

Hi Snowjoke :)

I went for the XT3 Petrol when I bought my RAV4 s/hand back in early 2006 as I thought that was a good balance of specification and price - Since then I have added various things I have missed since having the XT3 and if I went for for a higher spec to start with, I would have been better off

The XT4 offers two key features that you cannot sensibly retrofit should you end up wishing you had them .... Traction Control as you mentioned, plus Climate Control A/C rather then manual (those two may be on XT-R as well?). And add in the Leather and Cruise Control and it becomes a much more desirable vehicle (I personally would now bypass the XT3 and go higher should I be buying now).

Not sure what the XT5 offers over the XT4 except maybe full screen Sat Nav? and maybe bluetooth Hands free?

Question of Petrol V Diesel .... I initially thought I should have got Diesel but ended up with Petrol and on that aspect, pleased I did. The Petrol engine is not as economical for sure, but it is a very good one and is a pleasure to drive and no noisy rattles or DMF worries.

Whichever one you end up going for, you'll be very unlucky not to get a great car anyway

So with the way the prices are now (and I think you can find much better deals then you mentioned if you persevere and stand your ground) the higher specs are worth going for.

I would check out the REAL selling prices and from that, decide how much you think is the right price and tell the dealer at the place that has a car you are interested in how much YOU are willing to buy it for, rather then him telling you how much HE is willing to sell it for - if you look around the showroom, you will not see a queue of people fighting over it! More likely an echo in the place right now.

Oh - and that pre-reg story ..... I would be wary of that personally, but it does happen. An old girlfriend of mine ended up buying a "brand new" J reg Escort with delivery miles which was made in 1983 but somehow left in a warehouse/field

[cabcurtains]

There is no sense in buying a Diesel if you do low miles, it wont pay for itself and the potential repair costs are frightening when compared to Petrol’s, simply because turning the black sludge into smoke from running isn’t easy. The only thing that would make me contradict this is if your planning on towing something heavy, then the extra torque is essential for a pleasant driving experience.

[To-yo-ta]

Just a comment on the pre-reg story, whilst 20 months with no miles does seem excessive, I have seen pre-reg cars up to 18 months old for sale. My previous car was an Avensis T180, which I bought (very cheap) as a 7 month old pre-reg from a Toyota main dealer. The car was one of a batch of 30 cars that had been pre-registered by Toyota UK to increase the manufactuers sales figures for that car. But if manufacturers register cars in their own name then they cannot resale the car for 6 months otherwise the sale does not count. These cars are usually left in a compound still covered in wax, but taxed and registered. However whilst my car had been registered on 31st Nov 2006, which I bought in June 2007, I later questioned why the satnav mapping was dated 2004, I was told Toyota update them every 2 years and mine should of been a 2006 version but when they looked up the car reg on the computer it said the car was actually manufactured in March 2006, just before the upgrade. So the car was already 9 months old before it was pre-registered!

[snowjoke]

Thanks for the helpful replies! B)

I had the pleasure ( :P ) of driving a diesel one earlier this year when some of us met in Warrington. Nice and smooth as you'd expect but me being used to flooring the beast was disappointed. Mileage on these cars doesn't matter all that much so I'd take that out of the equation. What you need to do is weigh up the value of features as they come in your list of priorities. At such a low mileage, diesel doesn't have any advantage - will you ever get the car up to operating temp to burn off the dieselly deposits and keep the oil running free???? A petrol might just be a bit more tolerant.

Yep I'm thinking petrol would be better. They're much quieter to drive too.

Timing belts - generally these things need replaced at 60000 miles and anchorman has posted how you do it on this forum. If I remember its done in situ....= a skoosh!

I'm not much of a handyman when it comes to cars so I definitely won't be dismantling the engine myself! Anyway from what I can gather it looks like a £300-400 job, which isn't too bad compared with some cars (e.g. my old Fiat Coupe...).

Must admit, I'd try to go for the latest model partly for the bells and whistles; that the bits may have been upgraded from previous models; and that the metalwork is younger. Now that the good old Scottish chancellor is not hiking road tax for a while, then this can be discounted (like the pun eh??).

I kind of agree, so I'm mainly looking at XT4s at the moment.

If you are only doing 3,000m per year then to me petrol seems the way to go.

Usually a used petrol model is 10% cheaper (maybe more, I'm not up to date) and the price of diesel is

still £0.14 p.l. more so you have to do at least 12+ miles p.a to justify the extra cost.

With diesels you have the added risk of DMF failure and there also seems to be currently an issue about the turbos.

Servicing is (I think) more expensive.

The petrol engine is well proven and good for many miles. (200k).

Ya I agree! I did the sums and taking into account the fact that diesel's more expensive, there's only maybe £100 between the fuel costs even if you do 10k miles per year.

As far as the £8450 one is concerned it seems to me to be very expensive. Also, the service record would put me off.

The current state of the economy means that 4 x 4 - petrol ones in particular are not selling and you should get a very good deal. OK, from a Toyota dealer you get the excellent one year warranty but even so, a quick look at the used section of the Toyota website reveals better deals even at the initial asking price.

Also, don't discount the XTR models. They are XT3's with extras including traction control (but not leather) and cruise control which is handy on the motorway.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Thanks, I've done some more looking around on Auto Trader etc and found some better deals, albeit a bit farther afield. I've found some GXes from 02/03 with 50k on the clock going for £4000, which are tempting just because they're so cheap. Also a VX for £5800, which has the leather and traction control, but not sure I can justify the extra £1800 just for that. Also a few XT4s and XTRs around the £7000 mark which I can probably knock down to £6500.

And do remember to ask about Hinge Insurance for all those doors!!! :P

I will make sure I ask if these are included in the warranty... if not I'll take out extra cover.

I went for the XT3 Petrol when I bought my RAV4 s/hand back in early 2006 as I thought that was a good balance of specification and price - Since then I have added various things I have missed since having the XT3 and if I went for for a higher spec to start with, I would have been better off

The XT4 offers two key features that you cannot sensibly retrofit should you end up wishing you had them .... Traction Control as you mentioned, plus Climate Control A/C rather then manual (those two may be on XT-R as well?). And add in the Leather and Cruise Control and it becomes a much more desirable vehicle (I personally would now bypass the XT3 and go higher should I be buying now).

Not sure what the XT5 offers over the XT4 except maybe full screen Sat Nav? and maybe Bluetooth Hands free?

You persuaded me! I'm going for an XT4 if possible. There don't seem to be too many XT5s around but there's not much difference and I have a portable satnav already, which I probably prefer anyway since you can program it in advance, lend it to people etc. As far as I can see the only difference between the XT4 and XTR are that XT4 has leather, and XTR has cruise control and tinted windows. I found this site really useful for specs: WiseBuyer's Guide

So with the way the prices are now (and I think you can find much better deals then you mentioned if you persevere and stand your ground) the higher specs are worth going for.

I would check out the REAL selling prices and from that, decide how much you think is the right price and tell the dealer at the place that has a car you are interested in how much YOU are willing to buy it for, rather then him telling you how much HE is willing to sell it for - if you look around the showroom, you will not see a queue of people fighting over it! More likely an echo in the place right now.

I agree... prices will probably fall further and I seem to be seeing a lot of vehicles that have been on the forecourts for several months...

I ended up making an offer on the 22k miles car for £7700 but the dealer didn't phone back, which is probably a good thing because I think I can get a much better deal than that.

Just a comment on the pre-reg story, whilst 20 months with no miles does seem excessive, I have seen pre-reg cars up to 18 months old for sale. My previous car was an Avensis T180, which I bought (very cheap) as a 7 month old pre-reg from a Toyota main dealer. The car was one of a batch of 30 cars that had been pre-registered by Toyota UK to increase the manufactuers sales figures for that car. But if manufacturers register cars in their own name then they cannot resale the car for 6 months otherwise the sale does not count. These cars are usually left in a compound still covered in wax, but taxed and registered. However whilst my car had been registered on 31st Nov 2006, which I bought in June 2007, I later questioned why the satnav mapping was dated 2004, I was told Toyota update them every 2 years and mine should of been a 2006 version but when they looked up the car reg on the computer it said the car was actually manufactured in March 2006, just before the upgrade. So the car was already 9 months old before it was pre-registered!

Yeah that's probably what happened... maybe after they'd kept it for 6 months they couldn't shift it for some reason. Anyways, I'm not really interested in this car any more.

Probably looking at a couple more cars tomorrow... will let you know how it goes!

[bothwell_buyer]

some of us posting freaks appreciate your kind and considered response - it shows that folk take time to read the blurb -

so

good luck in finding your car and now you are better equipped I'm sure you'll buy one that we are all jealous over!!!!!

[Hoovie]

Enjoy your hunt

Look forward to seeing a few pics posted up ;)

[snowjoke]

Well I'm now the proud owner of a 54-plate XT4, 44k miles on the clock. Wasn't from a Toyota garage, although the previous owner bought it Toyota-approved just over a year ago. Paid £6700 with two new tyres and a 3-month warranty - might have been able to haggle for less but I thought it was a very fair price anyway. Silver not my first choice of colour but it still looks pretty smart with the Style Pack: here are some pics...

Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, and Brake Assist, apparently...

Full leather interior and climate control yo

These cup-holders rock!

Can't find much if anything wrong with it but will surely be posting a few questions over the coming days..

[Hoovie]

Looks very smart

Only thing I think I would do is add the rear step to go with the side steps which would finish it off nicely, but you got yourself a nice RAV4 there

[bothwell_buyer]

Hinge Insurance as part of the deal???