Bolo -4.3 Diesel Owners

[anchorman]

I noticed that my car was becoming difficult to start on these very cold mornings and found that the heater plugs are duff. Its off to the dealer for warranty work but as some 4.3s are soon 3 years old you may want to check;

Make sure the ignition is off. Pull the engine cover off (no its not an excuse!!!);

Remove the plastic caps. They screw off by hand but if they are tight there is a screwdriver slot in the top of each one;

Using a 10mm socket remove the feed wire first;

.........and then each of the glow plug nuts;

Remove the bus bar;

Then use an ohmmeter to measure the values;

Two of mine were open circuit and two were way out;

While they were disconnected I tried to start it and it was no more difficult than when they were connected. I think they have been playing up for some time. Bear in mind that this has only done 17k and was 2 years old in September - so no age really. If you have similar problems you may want to check or talk to the dealer.

Not related but just thought I would throw it in; I added the second boot light today while the weather was nice. Now I have one in each side of the boot that come on with the one in the door;

Cr@p photo but may try again soon!

[Bodgit-fixit-run]

Thanks for that Anchorman

Mine is a 4.2 but i think has been getting a little hard to start. I'll check mine in the service.

[shcm]

I noticed that my car was becoming difficult to start on these very cold mornings and found that the heater plugs are duff. Its off to the dealer for warranty work but as some 4.3s are soon 3 years old you may want to check;

Seems odd after only 17k. I guess they're Denso plugs? They seem to be a different part to the 4.2.

Assume you've not removed one?

Are you going to try and get a look (photos?) at the old plugs after they've changed 'em? I'd be interested.

As you often say. Keep us informed

[bothwell_buyer]

Peculiar -

I don't seem to suffer this problem with my petrol 3 door RAV !! :P :P

[Parts-King]

It is strange, we sell very few glow plugs on any Toyota vehicles, they are normally pretty bomb proof

Kingo

[shcm]

Peculiar -

I don't seem to suffer this problem with my petrol 3 door RAV !! :P :P

What about those nasty bits of burned looking string coated in rubbery stuff what connect between the distributor and the things you call, er, spark plugs is it?

Never ever get a problem with them? I know, I know, you've got on plug coils???? :P

Anyway, are you putting some infeasibly powerful diesel engine in that LR of yours or is it just going to rot? I'd just go for the V8 and done with it :D

Cheers

[Parts-King]

Has the problem been caused by over zealous rubbing/cleaning of the engine block? :D: it's looking a bit too clean for me under there

Kingo

[shcm]

He's forgotten those glow plugs are light sensitive and are prone to failure if exposed. That's why they are under that nice dark cover. :P

We know he can't help keep lifting it off (there's much photographic evidence), and look what happens..........

Sorry, I jest of course Mr Anchorman sir. You have my fullest "sympathy".

[anchorman]

Mr B Buyer.

Sticks and stones!!!

Mr S Hcm.

I'll be pulling your cover off soon and knowing how clean your car was last time I saw it I will be sniffing for signs of Meguire's on your injector pipes!!! Not had them out but it is booked in for Wednesday to change them.

Mr P King

I can't think why it has happened. It used to start first turn but has got progressively worse. One morning when it was -6C it took about 5 attempts to start, each time firing then cutting out almost immediately. I think that was when I realised something may definitely be wrong but this weekend was the first chance I had to investigate. It has been run almost exclusively on high grade diesel since new. Connection??? The thing is that on reasonable days when ambient is up to say 4 or 5C it starts Ok anyway so I wonder if others are faulty but don't show it especially if they are garaged overnight.

[xenodrew]

Anchorman, a wee favour please, gonnae buy a E39 523i so you can start to post fixes and photos of them too!

Go on, go on, go on, go on . . .

[anchorman]

Anchorman, a wee favour please, gonnae buy a E39 523i so you can start to post fixes and photos of them too!

Go on, go on, go on, go on . . .

No Mrs Doyle!

It means I would have to buy one too!!!!!

[bothwell_buyer]

Peculiar -

I don't seem to suffer this problem with my petrol 3 door RAV !! :P :P

What about those nasty bits of burned looking string coated in rubbery stuff what connect between the distributor and the things you call, er, spark plugs is it?

Never ever get a problem with them? I know, I know, you've got on plug coils???? :P

Anyway, are you putting some infeasibly powerful diesel engine in that LR of yours or is it just going to rot? I'd just go for the V8 and done with it :D

Cheers

a particiluarly naisty post freae a very jellyus dieselly owner obviously.......

naw c- the ht leads are original and 14 years old and don't misfire, misbehave or anythin else nor have done even at 175,000 miles. The plugs - changed twice i believe. Not cos they were wasted either. just preventative maintenance to keep PK and his pals in a job

And its a 200tdi lump going into the LR -comes from your neck of the woods I believe so you'll know more than I..........

[Fujisan]

Before this topic degenerates into another useless and pointless petrol / diesel war, a couple of links.

NGK e-learning Follow the tabs at the top to "Glow Plugs" and then "Fault Diagnosis".

Honest John.

I doubt the cause of AM's faulty plugs is the use of "Super - Diesel". I hope not anyway .

I have to be honest and say I did wonder if the use of engine de-greaser and high pressure jet washing had broken down the insulation on the plugs and that had caused them to fail. Pure speculation and probably wrong.

Anyway, good luck with the plug change, sure she will be starting first time everytime very soon.

[shcm]

a particiluarly naisty post freae a very jellyus dieselly owner obviously.......

Obviously. Look, I'm green with envy (or is it just a result of all that benzene in unleaded? - I know it's very low concentrations ).

And its a 200tdi lump going into the LR -comes from your neck of the woods I believe so you'll know more than I..........

No V8 petrol?? You're slipping mate.

Solihull? Lode Lane? Never heard of 'em.

OK, Thanks. Wasn't sure which it was you were transplanting. 200tdi - Easiest transplant probably? Informed choice IMHO.

[shcm]

Before this topic degenerates into another useless and pointless petrol / diesel war, a couple of links.

Some good links Fuj . Hence the reason I was interested in the state of the plugs (pictures of) when they were removed.

Not sure who makes Toyota's glow plugs. Was assuming Denso, 'cause they seem to have a very close relationship with Toyota, but I could be miles out. Here's Denso's glowplug guide:

http://www.denso-europe.com/uploads/Glowpl...uide2008-09.pdf

AM - Just for the record and just out of idle curiosity, I've pulled that cover off mine (polished the injection pipes, so you are not disappointed ) and did a quick measurement.

Couldn't be bothered to take the busbar off, so just measured the 4 in parallel. Got about 0.25 ohms (4x 1 ohm in parallel = 0.25 ohm).

Don't recommend that because

1. handheld DVMs are not always good at low resistance, better with a 4 wire approach:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_8/9.html

and

2. it doesn't mean that they are all in spec, but a reasonable(ish) indicator, for a 30 second look.

So, I'd say mine are all OK, but then I don't usually have starting problems (touch wood).

Can't help wondering if yours have been over torqued @ production or something, but then maybe you'd expect that to show sooner. The suspense is killing me

Cheers

[Fujisan]

Any update please Anchorman?

What did they find? If you don't mind my asking.

[bothwell_buyer]

Peculiar -

I don't seem to suffer this problem with my petrol 3 door RAV !! :P :P

ooooops

spoke to soon -

have now discovered that Denso use a planned obsolescence programme ! The ignitor / coil pack on number 2 failed !!

[anchorman]

Any update please Anchorman?

What did they find? If you don't mind my asking.

Not at all Fuj'

They found two glow plugs open circuit and two out of range and replaced all 4 under warranty. It seems to start OK now but I want a few more frosty days to make a full assessment.

Interstingly the glow plugs were fifty something pounds for a full set where as the ones from of the internet came out at twenty each so it pays to check Toyota prices. If they ever go again I will be on to Kingo.

If anyone has any doubts about cold starting I suggest running it past the dealer and getting it done under warranty. If you have a digital multimeter just give it a swift check.

Regards

[anchorman]

Just an update.

I can say that it is cured now after several very cold starts. It starts and continues to run every time.

During the visit I mentioned that I had a brake judder at higher speeds (60-70mph). The front discs were quite badly marked from standing a lot. This is called depositing and you can see a black outline of the pads on the disc. Higher/normal mileage cars don't tend to suffer. I didn't really want the discs skimming and after a bit of negotiation (but not much) they fitted brand new discs and pads under warranty. The judder is also cured.

They also did the ECM upgrade. I asked what it was for and they didn't know but guessed it may be to reduce the risk of EGR problems. It does seem to be running smooth but this is a very subjective comment.

RRG Macclesfield did all this work under warranty without quibbling so if you detect anything with these issues try to get them done before the warranty runs out.

[Parts-King]

RRG Macclesfield did all this work under warranty without quibbling so if you detect anything with these issues try to get them done before the warranty runs out.

Good advice. The warranty is 3 years, not 3 years and several days. We often find customers coming in outside the warranty period saying a particular problem with their car was there from new, but never had it fixed, if this happens you are likely to find yourself being charged for a repair. Much better to get your car in AND FIXED BEFORE the 3 year warranty expires

Kingo

[Fujisan]

They found two glow plugs open circuit and two out of range and replaced all 4 under warranty. It seems to start OK now but I want a few more frosty days to make a full assessment.

I can say that it is cured now after several very cold starts. It starts and continues to run every time.

Glad your RAV is starting OK now

Did they have any idea why the plugs had gone open circuit?

[bothwell_buyer]

Just an update.

I can say that it is cured now after several very cold starts. It starts and continues to run every time.

During the visit I mentioned that I had a brake judder at higher speeds (60-70mph). The front discs were quite badly marked from standing a lot. This is called depositing and you can see a black outline of the pads on the disc. Higher/normal mileage cars don't tend to suffer. I didn't really want the discs skimming and after a bit of negotiation (but not much) they fitted brand new discs and pads under warranty. The judder is also cured.

............... runs out.

An interesting one - I've had a slight problem with depositing on number 1 RAV - where the pad material transferred onto the disc eventually resulting in the disc having to be skimmed. KAD thought it might be happening if I'm holding the car on the footbrake at, say lights, after a heavy braking session where the very hot disc picks up material from the pad - sounded a bit like welding to me. You'll know better. However since that hapened I use the handbrake whenever the car is stopped.....but I notice its beginning again. I guess I might need to re-think the pad material, or avoid traffic lights :lol: Same thing happened in that we had a judder and could only see marks or impressions of the pad on the disc surface. Wonder if brasso would help?

[anchorman]

Fuj

They didn't admit there was a general problem but the reason I posted this warning was that I can't see that my vehicle is unique. I think I have proven that it will start with NO glow plugs and so some that are open or out of range would not necessarily be so obvious. To this end I would suggest that if it doesn't start first time and run without stalling then there could be a similar situation and owners are better to get it checked at Toyota's expense than their own. That was how I first noticed it. On very cold mornings if I waited for the light to go out it would fire bu only run for a second without cutting out again. One morning when it was -6C I tried about 5 or 6 times wondering if the fuel had waxed and clogged the filter. As I then noticed it did it to a lessor degree at not such low temp I thought it was time to investigate further. First job was pump the primer on the fuel filter to make sure fuel was present and it was. Next job was whip my favourite cover off and check for problems with the glow plugs and lo and behold..........

Kingo says they do not sell any and I can believe that because as I said, I disconnected the glow plugs altogether and it behaved in a very similar way to when they were connected - fired up for a second then cut out. I think after it started the rush of very cold air was killing combustion. The fact that it starts at all without the glow plugs is something of an accolade to the design. Normally small diesels are an @rse without a fully functioning cold start system.

I reiterate. If any do the same then take it to the dealer or perform the above check as I think having one duff glow plug on the anchormobile would be an acceptable misfortune. Having four is more like winning the lotto twice on the same day. My feeling is that there are more out there.

Bothy

Things are looking up if you've started pulling up at red lights!!!

The depositing on mine is more associated with oxidation of varios substances (there are some wierd and wonderful things in mordern pads) on the cast iron disc due to lack of use. Usually brakes that are used normally (this means disc temperatures of 200 to 400C) do not cause a problem because they self clean. I know yours get hot at wharp speed but I wonder if there is an element of incompatibility between the pad and the disc? From memory you are using Ferodo pads but are you on cast iron or carbon fibre discs?

Is it still an issue? Ferodo did have a no quibble warranty and would change pads indefinately if they were suspected faulty. It means you can keep going back to your supplier and keep getting them free. It may have changed now but you can ask. They used to do some fairly good competition materials like DS2000. It sometimes needed warming if stopping for red lights was a requirement but went on to give reasonable performance at up to about 1000C (yellow disc) as long as nothing else fell to bits or the fluid didn't boil. Non of them should deposit at normal temps. Modern calipers tend not to allow the fluid to boil as it is kept well away from the pads on the piston side and do not transfer fluid across the bridge as that is applied by reaction via the guide pins.

[bothwell_buyer]

Bothy

Things are looking up if you've started pulling up at red lights!!!

The depositing on mine is more associated with oxidation of varios substances (there are some wierd and wonderful things in mordern pads) on the cast iron disc due to lack of use. Usually brakes that are used normally (this means disc temperatures of 200 to 400C) do not cause a problem because they self clean. I know yours get hot at wharp speed but I wonder if there is an element of incompatibility between the pad and the disc? From memory you are using Ferodo pads but are you on cast iron or carbon fibre discs?

Is it still an issue? Ferodo did have a no quibble warranty and would change pads indefinately if they were suspected faulty. It means you can keep going back to your supplier and keep getting them free. It may have changed now but you can ask. They used to do some fairly good competition materials like DS2000. It sometimes needed warming if stopping for red lights was a requirement but went on to give reasonable performance at up to about 1000C (yellow disc) as long as nothing else fell to bits or the fluid didn't boil. Non of them should deposit at normal temps. Modern calipers tend not to allow the fluid to boil as it is kept well away from the pads on the piston side and do not transfer fluid across the bridge as that is applied by reaction via the guide pins.

Very interesting.... I bought a 2nd pair of discs ( the discs are cast iron with an alloy bell) whilst the 1st pair were away for checking. Thats when KAD said there were deposits on the discs possibly from holding car on footbrake after a heavy braking session....I wasn't aware of doing that as I already knew to avoid holding the pad on a hot disc.

The 2nd pair is going the same way - not much but a hint of judder - but still using the same pads so I'll go back to KAD and ask them to contact Ferodo for comment. The pads are Ferodo DS2500.

These calipers are 3 pistons per side, rather than the bridge and guide pins. I've not had any instance of brake fade, and am sure I haven't pushed the brakes to anywhere near their limit...yet!

Thanks

[Fujisan]

Fuj

They didn't admit there was a general problem but the reason I posted this warning was that I can't see that my vehicle is unique. I think I have proven that it will start with NO glow plugs and so some that are open or out of range would not necessarily be so obvious. To this end I would suggest that if it doesn't start first time and run without stalling then there could be a similar situation and owners are better to get it checked at Toyota's expense than their own. That was how I first noticed it. On very cold mornings if I waited for the light to go out it would fire bu only run for a second without cutting out again. One morning when it was -6C I tried about 5 or 6 times wondering if the fuel had waxed and clogged the filter. As I then noticed it did it to a lessor degree at not such low temp I thought it was time to investigate further. First job was pump the primer on the fuel filter to make sure fuel was present and it was. Next job was whip my favourite cover off and check for problems with the glow plugs and lo and behold..........

Kingo says they do not sell any and I can believe that because as I said, I disconnected the glow plugs altogether and it behaved in a very similar way to when they were connected - fired up for a second then cut out. I think after it started the rush of very cold air was killing combustion. The fact that it starts at all without the glow plugs is something of an accolade to the design. Normally small diesels are an @rse without a fully functioning cold start system.

I reiterate. If any do the same then take it to the dealer or perform the above check as I think having one duff glow plug on the anchormobile would be an acceptable misfortune. Having four is more like winning the lotto twice on the same day. My feeling is that there are more out there.

Thanks Anchorman

I just wanted to see if they said it was a problem with the plugs themselves or a fuelling problem (Super Diesel was mentioned earlier in the thread) that caused the problem.

It seems likely then that it was the former.

Anyway, as you so rightly say, something to keep eye out for, especially in this cold weather.