Tesco 99 Ron Super V 95 Ron Unleaded

[zakelwe]

A while ago crisskro stated that he felt a loss of power and economy going back to 95 RON petrol from the 100 RON he used out in Europe so I thought I would see if I could spot any difference now that the price of Super unleaded has sunk a lot lower. I have to admit I was rather sceptical.

So 3 tank fulls later I have to report there is an improvement in performance. Now these things can be very subjective because we are not talking necksnapping "wooaa, holy mutha of God ... " sort of change as you would by fitting nitrous, so it's taken a bit of time to come to this conclusion. The car in general feels smoother and perky, my one quantitative real test is a hill on the M25 where if I started it at 57-58mph at the bottom by the top it would be 48-49mph. Now it is about 53-54mph. That's not a lot of difference but I have stopped annoying lorries so much :D

Fuel economy has not got any worse but then again I have not noticed any improvment. To be honest it's rather hard to tell any small gains or loses for this because traffic and weather conditions can mask or promote it, it would need a far better test.

So the questions is do I contine with it. I think while it is cheaper and I am putting in less than £30 per tank then yes, if prices go up again I will swap back.

Anyone else tried it and thoughts ?

Regards

Andy

[Who Me !!]

Yes I have tried this execpt the Texaco option and I agree with you the car would seem to run better with the more expenceve fuel I also think better MPG because you dont have to push the throttle down so far to get the same results.

John

[Demonic Angel]

It's a placebo, you think it must be better therefore it is. I've never believed anyone when they've said a small hatch (Aygo, Yaris ec) benefits from 99RON fuel or higher. It's all clever marketing from the fuel companies which you think is true because the engine seems to feel smoother....

In reality unless you can sit in two Aygos at once, one with 95 and one with 99 and drive the same amount of road, it'll never be a conclusive test.

But personally I think its madness.....

[geoffb]

It's a placebo, you think it must be better therefore it is. I've never believed anyone when they've said a small hatch (Aygo, Yaris ec) benefits from 99RON fuel or higher. It's all clever marketing from the fuel companies which you think is true because the engine seems to feel smoother....

In reality unless you can sit in two Aygos at once, one with 95 and one with 99 and drive the same amount of road, it'll never be a conclusive test.

But personally I think its madness.....

Have to disagree IMHO on that one from my personal experience, though can only comment on use with a Corolla. I have been using and checking out Shell V-Power for quite some time now. The engine definitely runs smoother and, on a tank fill comparison with Shell basic unleaded, I am averaging an extra 2-3 mpg better with V-Power. Not enough to warrant the extra cost I agree but I will continue using V-Power until it gets too costly. I plan to keep my car for quite a while and anticipate that the additives will help keep the engine sweeter.

Mind you, I can well understand the suspicion though. Believe me, I too am very suspicious of marketing hype but I can only speak as I find ;)

[Blue84]

I notice a difference in the Yaris when she has 99ron instead of 95ron. It feels smoother and yes a bit perkier. I wouldn't call it a massive great "whoa bleedin' hell" difference, but it's enough. I find it does give about 20 miles more tankwise, after 2 fill ups and it's had time to get properly in the system.

A lot of people think it's a placebo (like Em) but I definately feel an improvement and that's enough for me.

Plus with fuel being cheaper now it's even more of a reason to use the 99Ron. The MR2's have 98 ron or higher, so they tend to live on 99Ron anyway.

[adilmon]

My point is that the fuel's resistance to auto ignition (hence higher ron number) is only part of the story. The additives and calorific value of the fuel also makes a difference. For example, Shell's GTL fuel (Gas to Liquid- linking gas molecules together until they become liquid) boasts about having a more consistent molecule size, but on average they will invariable be a smaller length, since GTL is not a cheap process. The more molecular bonds that break in combustion, the bigger the bang in the piston. So also Shell's High octance fuel boast the same octane number a BP's I have been getting significantly better mpg and response by using BP's fuel.

It's not a plcebo at all. I found it most noticeable on my single cylinder 125cc scooter. It had Electronic fuel injection and a unusually high compression ratio (13:1) and the regular 95ron fuel was ok until I tried 99ron. The exhaust was louder with 99 and the tiny engine more responsive, also not loosing as much speed up hill (full throttle)

Anyway, the Aygo is electronically fuel injected, so it's more likely to be able to make the most out of higher ron. It also has knock sensors, to avoid damage under severe conditions. I think the VVTi aspect of the aygo's engine makes higher ron fuel worth while

[Red Yaris 54]

I certainly notice a difference when filling with Shell V power over Shell unleaded. (Usually when the filling station has no unleaded)

The MPG gets marginally better and the engine does run smoother.....................definately NOT a placebo.

BUT.................is it really worth the extra cost?

[Hoovie]

I tried the Shell V-Power over a couple of thousand miles (while the free model car offer was on ;) ) and been recording my mpg since about March.

On the economy side, seem to make no difference. Running side - couldn't really tell - didn't seem to make any difference though.

I have now gone back to standard unleaded, but would use the higher ron petrol again if the price was within say 2p a litre.

[Demonic Angel]

As I said, sit in two cars at once and do a proper conclusive test and then I'll believe it.... my car is fine with normal petrol, the RON the engine is actually designed for.... I think even the manual states 95RON fuel.

Plus I'm not daft enough to spend more money on expensive fuel when the regular stuff still gets me from A to B in perfect comfort and harmony.... I currently get 350 miles to a tank and my mpg is fine for my style of driving & journeys....

If you have a performance car, buy performance fuel. For an Aygo or a Yaris, its just wasted money but hey, if you have money to burn..... personally I think there are more exciting things to spend it on than premium fuel for your small cheap hatchback! :P

[Red Yaris 54]

when filling with Shell V power over Shell unleaded. (Usually when the filling station has no unleaded)

I do not usually buy premium grade fuel for my Yaris.

But as I said, WHEN I do my MPG IS better (by about 4 MPG) and the engine IS smoother.

Its good to treat my small hatchback occasionally :P

The odd occasion that I pay more for the fuel is only that..............very occasionally...................I agree with you Em (First time this year), there are much more exciting things to spend my money on ;)

[geoffb]

Personally, I don't see this as a right or wrong, daft or sensible issue. It's down to individual choice and that's what makes the world go round :P

For me, there is a discernible difference and buying V-Power is part of what I see as maintenance for a car I intend keeping for quite a while.

That's it really ;)

[Demonic Angel]

Personally, I don't see this as a right or wrong, daft or sensible issue. It's down to individual choice and that's what makes the world go round :P

As do opinions and I refuse to be sorry for having one and voicing it I'd much rather do that than agree with the masses....

[Hoovie]

Personally, I don't see this as a right or wrong, daft or sensible issue. It's down to individual choice and that's what makes the world go round :P

As do opinions and I refuse to be sorry for having one and voicing it I'd much rather do that than agree with the masses....

Agreed (or should I disagree ) ;)

geofffb's point about buying premium fuel as a long-tem benefit for the car is actually the reason why, although I don't buy higher-octane petrol, I DO buy branded fuel (ideally Shell) rather then Tesco/Morrisons/etc fuel whenever possible

Does it make a difference? dunno in reality, but it does in my head :)

[adilmon]

Everyone's right to an opinion doesn't mean everyone is right.

I think the manual says 95ron is the minimum.

[rgvsean]

BP's Fuel Options:

BP Ultimate Unleaded has a research octane level of 97. Standard unleaded petrol has a research octane level of 95. This, on average, gives increased power in certain vehicles.

According to BP, BP Ultimate can give, on average, a 7% improvement in power, a 5% improvement in acceleration and a 6% improvement in fuel economy, in comparison to Unleaded Regular 95 petrol.

In comparison to regular diesel, BP Ultimate Diesel can improve a vehicle's power by up to 10%.

BP have now introduced BP Ultimate 102 unleaded - a precision engineered, high performance fuel to some of their forecourts. This fuel is offered specially for private motor sport enthusiasts and has a high octane number of 102. This means it burns more completely so highly tuned engines perform at their best.

As someone mentioned above, branded petrol ie BP Shell TEXACO etc is better than supermarket cheap stuff. You should notice a difference long term between the 2 as injectors gum up etc etc. This has been my feeling that the branded stuff runs better generally.

As for the RON petrol prices.com says this.

Octane Numbers

Usually, there are three different octane numbers associated with all petrols. Petrol's Research Octane Number (RON) is measured under simple test conditions. Petrol's Motor Octane Number (MON) is measured under tougher test conditions and at higher engine speed and temperature.

The average of these two values is what becomes related closer to actual driving conditions. This value is known as the Road Octane Number, and is what should be used in filling stations.

Occasionally, some filling stations will confuse these different octane numbers in a bid to embellish on their octane rating claims, and advertise their fuel's Research Octane Number, which is higher than the Road Octane Number. In many European countries, the Research Octane Number is advertised on pumps, so a much higher octane value is common when travelling in certain countries.

Using Super Fuels

One of our users commented that using higher octane fuel than your engine requires actually gives no benefit and may be a waste of money. This is because virtually NO engines require 98 RON over 95, and the market for 'super' fuels seems to be based on people's misunderstanding of octane ratings and the placebo effect of filling up with 'more powerful' fuel - making motorists think their engine is running better in some way.

What do the fuel companies say then, to justify the "increased power" claims for the super grade fuels? Some companies say that while all fuels contain cleaning additives, 'super' fuels contain more or better detergents to keep the injectors cleaner than standard fuel. Others say the fuel is a few percent denser which gives slightly more power per litre. These benefits may be marginal though in comparison to the extra cost involved so it is worth ensuring that your engine will actually benefit before filling up.

Some engines actually do need higher octane fuel, such as race engines with very high compression and some turbocharged engines, such as the import version of the Nissan Skyline. Also, a few vehicles, such as the new BMW K1200R motorbike, can sense knock and adjust their engine tuning to take advantage of higher grade fuels. Another user commented that the 2004 BMW 330 also does this, according to the driver's handbook it makes 231 BHP on 98 octane and 221 BHP on 95. This ability is apparently widespread amongst German performance cars using Bosch / Siemens electronic engine controls.

I filled up with some super ultimate max whatever by accident and the car maybe felt a little more responsive? Maybe because my wallet was soooo much lighter

[Cokeman]

I've just seen that Asda are doing unleaded @ 82.9p per litre at present, not seen it that cheap since Dec 2006. Makes it definately cheap to fill at the moment, just about £29.00 for a tank full of 35 litres.

[Demonic Angel]

Using Super Fuels

One of our users commented that using higher octane fuel than your engine requires actually gives no benefit and may be a waste of money. This is because virtually NO engines require 98 RON over 95, and the market for 'super' fuels seems to be based on people's misunderstanding of octane ratings and the placebo effect of filling up with 'more powerful' fuel - making motorists think their engine is running better in some way.

What do the fuel companies say then, to justify the "increased power" claims for the super grade fuels? Some companies say that while all fuels contain cleaning additives, 'super' fuels contain more or better detergents to keep the injectors cleaner than standard fuel. Others say the fuel is a few percent denser which gives slightly more power per litre. These benefits may be marginal though in comparison to the extra cost involved so it is worth ensuring that your engine will actually benefit before filling up.

Some engines actually do need higher octane fuel, such as race engines with very high compression and some turbocharged engines, such as the import version of the Nissan Skyline. Also, a few vehicles, such as the new BMW K1200R motorbike, can sense knock and adjust their engine tuning to take advantage of higher grade fuels. Another user commented that the 2004 BMW 330 also does this, according to the driver's handbook it makes 231 BHP on 98 octane and 221 BHP on 95. This ability is apparently widespread amongst German performance cars using Bosch / Siemens electronic engine controls.

I filled up with some super ultimate max whatever by accident and the car maybe felt a little more responsive? Maybe because my wallet was soooo much lighter

Well I'm glad that petrolprices.com agrees with me - it's about time someone did!

The placebo effect - it exists and its the only thing about this argument that is actually real! ;)

[adilmon]

In that case- your intellect is a placebo

[Demonic Angel]

In that case- your intellect is a placebo

I didn't realise my views were so important to you and you obviously feel disheartened that I don't agree with you, so much so you feel the need to insult me.

Just because I don't agree with your views that doesn't make me any less intelligent than you. Unless you have proof to the contrary of course.... ;)

[Dinky_05]

i thought engines are designed to use certain quality of fuel? you might be doing more harm than good in the way of wear and tear?

i have a car that use 98 - can't find it, only 97 and 99. can't say i have noticed any difference as its sophisticated enough to adjust for the quality of petrol. 95 does make it a bit rough for a while. i have another where it makes no difference, can even chuck in leaded as there isn't a catalytic converter, not noticed any change either.

each to his own but in an aygo you'll probably get more of a performance increase by not wearing a coat than going the 98 RON route. speaking of which i'll get mine......

[zakelwe]

As I said, sit in two cars at once and do a proper conclusive test and then I'll believe it.... my car is fine with normal petrol, the RON the engine is actually designed for.... I think even the manual states 95RON fuel.

Plus I'm not daft enough to spend more money on expensive fuel when the regular stuff still gets me from A to B in perfect comfort and harmony.... I currently get 350 miles to a tank and my mpg is fine for my style of driving & journeys....

If you have a performance car, buy performance fuel. For an Aygo or a Yaris, its just wasted money but hey, if you have money to burn..... personally I think there are more exciting things to spend it on than premium fuel for your small cheap hatchback! :P

My test up the hill is pretty conclusive, read again "my one quantitative real test is a hill on the M25 where if I started it at 57-58mph at the bottom by the top it would be 48-49mph. Now it is about 53-54mph." Both were with the engine warm and little wind, dry tarmac. The temperature was slightly colder on the 99RON test. So unless the gradient got less between I think your placebo effect claim has been nullified.

Have you tried it yourself? I met the same sort of comments on Sprintbooster for Mercedes a few years ago, everyone who bought one noticed the difference, the only people who were convinced it was "snakeoil" where people who had not ;)

Regards

Andy

[gordonh]

Cold air and air pressure will also affect performance.

[zakelwe]

Cold air and air pressure will also affect performance.

Cold air mainly effects supercharged and turbocharged cars and we are talking differences between that are between summer and winter or half way up Mt Everest. Here both were taken in December with temps ranging from 5C to 10C and distance in altitude about 300 feet.

This is my route to work, I have done it since May 2008 and in 25C, in wet weather, when it has been windy, and it has always dropped to just around 48-50mph until I filled up with 99 RON.

I shall continue the experiment though through January and will revert back to normal unleaded to see what happens.

Regards

Andy

[Norfolk n Chance]

Not the sort of thread i thought would be in the Aygo forum of all places!

Higher RON fuels are worth it if you have a performance engine.

If you don't, then the added cost of the fuel outweighs the minimal benefit.

;)

[gordonh]

You can notice air differences during the same day in the summer. I often find on the bike if it's been a cold night and it's a chilly crisp morning the bike will run a lot better on the way to work than it does on the way home, so the differences aren't limited to major shifts in the atmosphere.

I only bought it up because you said about the temp being 'slightly colder on the 99RON test' and that would be a bonus inline with what I was talking about.