What Grade Oil For D4d Rav4 (2008)

[RavAshGreen]

Daft question, but I'm confused by manual!!

I need to top up oil level on my 6mth old RAV4 D4D (a bit surprised as this is the first car I've owned (albeit the first diesel) that needs topping up between services). What grade should I use? I see Anchorman uses 5W-30 in his post, but the manual states ACEA C2 (or B1 at a pinch!) (I assume this vehicle has a DPF cat - or am I wrong on this??)

Thanks

[anchorman]

RAG

Welcome to the club.

You have to pick up the spec from the oil container very often and in some cases the manual specifies U.S. numbers. For instance it says that only DOT3 brake fluid should be used which is freely available there but even if you buy from a main agent here you will only get DOT 5.1.

If you buy a recognised brand of 5W30 semi synthetic you will be OK - I promise!!! Some people prefer fully synthetic but again the main agents are using semi synthetic.

Only the SR/T180 has a DPF Cat. (D-CAT badged).

[Fujisan]

I can recommend Opie Oils, a sponsor on the TOC.

Great service, good prices and speedy delivery from the Oilman

[oilman]

The correct oil is an oil that meets ACEA C2

This is for the DPF.

Some here

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-791-c2.aspx

Cheers

Simon

[valeite]

At my last service the Dealer used Castrol Magnatec 10W-40 I have questioned this and I await a reply. :o

[Bodgit-fixit-run]

Go for a slippery one.

[anchorman]

At my last service the Dealer used Castrol Magnatec 10W-40 I have questioned this and I await a reply. :o

In the manual there is a range of useable oils and the Magnatec falls into that OK. I know the Opie oil supplier is the recommended one but they are rather expensive compared to a local motor factor. I can get morris 5W30 semi synthetic for about £18 for 5 litres and the fully synthetic which exceeds C2 is only about £5 more.

[valeite]

I have contacted Castrol about the dealer using Magnatec 10W-40 this is their reply:

Quote

The earlier models could use a 10W-40, but the later 2.2 diesels only

specify a 5W-30 viscosity so if the car is still under warranty, I would

suggest you have a chat with the main dealer regarding getting the oil

changed to Magnatec 5W-30, unless the dealer is prepared to back up his

decision to use the 10W-40. The 5W-30 is a more fuel efficient product

also.

Unquote.

The dealers service manager has agreed to change the oil to 5W-30

I suspected that the car was not as economical after the service even switching to using the higher grade fuel.

I also thought the car was lacking power but this could be the boy racer in me still not completely dormant. ;)

Prior to the service I achieved a calculated average between 41/43 mpg after the service 38/39 mpg my journeys do not vary much.

[anchorman]

I blame the manufacturers and suppliers for some of the confusion around oil and the specification as its usually in thier interest to get people to change.

Terry.

The fact that you have got the dealer to agree to change your oil can only be a benefit, after all you are getting a bit more protection up to your next service from newer oil, so I'm not criticising what you have achieved. However, and this is for anyone else left wondering, the service specification from Toyota is here (FHV = 180 engine, FTV = 140 engine);

You see there is no mention here of viscosity, only of the basic requirement of the oil which is indicated by the letters (and also as some would have us believe that the DPF engined vehicles do not require an oil with a different spec'. I think they omitted to say "might benefit from"). The viscosity recommendation is in the manual as shown here;

You can see that it says;

"SAE 5W-30 is the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather.

If you use 10W-30 or a higher viscosity engine oil in extremely low temperatures, the engine may become difficult to start, so so SAE 5W-30 engine oil is recommended."

Now look at the chart with the temp scale. You can see that the 5W-30 has an operating range starting at less than -29C to more than 38C. -29C!!! - this is for the far north and nothing in the UK. You can also see that oils with a cold viscosity of 10W are perfectly acceptable at temps in excess of -18C and this is still OK for the UK even allowing for some freak cold snap.

What I am trying to say is yes, 5W-30 is the best all round viscosity but it reaches far wider than our operating envelope so don't get too concerned about oil with a slightly different rating. It needs to meet the spec indicated by the letters and this appears on the keg/bottle. Some fuel saving benefit me be derived from the point of cold starting but this is gone at normal temperature (or what is measurable). Toyota most certainly do not "only specify 5W-30" as Castrol would have us believe.

You can see that even 15W and 20W oils are still OK for use in the UK but these may take longer to get around the engine following a cold start and used to be responsible for sludging and other emission problems (maybe they now have additives to surpress those problems).

Mine always gets Morris 5W-30 but if I could only get a good quality 10W-40 (like Magnatec) at the time of an oil change I wouldn't be the least bit concerned.

Oh and incidentally, Toyota do not produce automotive lubricants. Niether do any of the fuel companies. Motor oil is blended by specialist oil companies like Morris, Castrol, Fuchs (Silkolene) etc. Any oil you see in a Shell or BP or Halfords or Toyota etc have been blended and packaged by one of the afore mentioned or another specialist company.

[vivianM]

I blame the manufacturers and suppliers for some of the confusion around oil and the specification as its usually in thier interest to get people to change.

Terry.

The fact that you have got the dealer to agree to change your oil can only be a benefit, after all you are getting a bit more protection up to your next service from newer oil, so I'm not criticising what you have achieved. However, and this is for anyone else left wondering, the service specification from Toyota is here (FHV = 180 engine, FTV = 140 engine);

You see there is no mention here of viscosity, only of the basic requirement of the oil which is indicated by the letters (and also as some would have us believe that the DPF engined vehicles do not require an oil with a different spec'. I think they omitted to say "might benefit from"). The viscosity recommendation is in the manual as shown here;

You can see that it says;

"SAE 5W-30 is the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather.

If you use 10W-30 or a higher viscosity engine oil in extremely low temperatures, the engine may become difficult to start, so so SAE 5W-30 engine oil is recommended."

Now look at the chart with the temp scale. You can see that the 5W-30 has an operating range starting at less than -29C to more than 38C. -29C!!! - this is for the far north and nothing in the UK. You can also see that oils with a cold viscosity of 10W are perfectly acceptable at temps in excess of -18C and this is still OK for the UK even allowing for some freak cold snap.

What I am trying to say is yes, 5W-30 is the best all round viscosity but it reaches far wider than our operating envelope so don't get too concerned about oil with a slightly different rating. It needs to meet the spec indicated by the letters and this appears on the keg/bottle. Some fuel saving benefit me be derived from the point of cold starting but this is gone at normal temperature (or what is measurable). Toyota most certainly do not "only specify 5W-30" as Castrol would have us believe.

You can see that even 15W and 20W oils are still OK for use in the UK but these may take longer to get around the engine following a cold start and used to be responsible for sludging and other emission problems (maybe they now have additives to surpress those problems).

Mine always gets Morris 5W-30 but if I could only get a good quality 10W-40 (like Magnatec) at the time of an oil change I wouldn't be the least bit concerned.

Oh and incidentally, Toyota do not produce automotive lubricants. Niether do any of the fuel companies. Motor oil is blended by specialist oil companies like Morris, Castrol, Fuchs (Silkolene) etc. Any oil you see in a Shell or BP or Halfords or Toyota etc have been blended and packaged by one of the afore mentioned or another specialist company.

Interesting this oil query!

The Toyota dealer, in Macclesfield, when I asked them for a litre of oil to have some for top up supplied me with Shell Helix 10W-30 saying that was the one specified for the Rav T180 and gave it to me FOC and I did not buy the car from them!

Guy

[anchorman]

Can't argue with that!!! Well done RRG Macc and well done you. Although it isn't the viscosity most recommended it is a very acceptable alternative - see what I mean?

[Parts-King]

We only use 5w 30, semi synthetic in all models, except the new 1.33 Auris which is 0w 20, there is no requirement for fully synthetic oils either

I'm with Anchorman on this one, I always recommend 5w 30 semi, as long as it is a quality brand. It is perfectly capable of doing a good job on the whole range, and you will save a fortune too!

Kingo

[Fujisan]

Oh and incidentally, Toyota do not produce automotive lubricants. Niether do any of the fuel companies. Motor oil is blended by specialist oil companies like Morris, Castrol, Fuchs (Silkolene) etc. Any oil you see in a Shell or BP or Halfords or Toyota etc have been blended and packaged by one of the afore mentioned or another specialist company.

Take a trip down Oil Sites Road, Anchorman and you will see the Shell Lubricants Centre!

"The Shell Lubricants Centre (SLC) is based at Stanlow in Cheshire alongside the seventh largest refinery in Europe. It employs 180 people and annually handles the manufacturing and distribution of 150,000 tonnes of lubricants."

[anchorman]

It may well do Fuj but can you tell me if they blend motor oil or if they refine crude and produce industrial greases?

[Fujisan]

It may well do Fuj but can you tell me if they blend motor oil or if they refine crude and produce industrial greases?

The refining of the crude oil is done next door at the refinery :)

I'm no expert at what happens within the SLC but I would humbly say you have it the wrong way around.

Judging by the dozens of different branded tankers waiting patiantly to be filled at the SLC., Morris's etc take their oil from the majors add a drop of this and that, mix this and that up and shove it in there own cans.

[Parts-King]

On the last SDS sheet I have, the Toyota branded motor oil in cans comes from Esso

Kingo

[anchorman]

Thats it though Fuj'. I used to be quite friendly with one of the technical guys at Morris's. He told me that oil cannot be used until it has been blended. So I accept that various tankers are coming for "pure" unblended oil as it has been refined from crude. I understand it still has a lot of work needed to convert it into a multigrade oil with the various technical specifications.

I also once attended an IMI presntation given by Century oils whom I think were in the Stoke area. This is a similar company to Fuchs Silkolene and they also specialise in oil blending. They were also absolutely adamant that these blending companies were responsible for the production of motor lubricants for the petrol companies and stated that NONE of them blended automotive lubricants.

I have no doubt that this is what was said so if it is incorrect then they both make the same claims.

Hey Fuj'. When the sun is setting I can see your place from Stockport viaduct quite clearly. There is another out there somewhere though in a similar direction.

[Fujisan]

He told me that oil cannot be used until it has been blended.

Oh very true.

So I accept that various tankers are coming for "pure" unblended oil as it has been refined from crude. I understand it still has a lot of work needed to convert it into a multigrade oil with the various technical specifications.

I wouldn't like to say what is in those tankers but it is my guess that it is more than pure unblended oil, more like somethink 90% on the way to the finished product these small blending companies put on the shelves.

I also once attended an IMI presntation given by Century oils whom I think were in the Stoke area. This is a similar company to Fuchs Silkolene and they also specialise in oil blending. They were also absolutely adamant that these blending companies were responsible for the production of motor lubricants for the petrol companies and stated that NONE of them blended automotive lubricants.

In which case, the folks at Volkswagen / Audi / Skoda and Ferrari / Maserati and Ferrari Formula One must be dissapointed that all the oil they put has first fill in there engines actually comes from a small company in Stoke!

I have no doubt that this is what was said so if it is incorrect then they both make the same claims.

Has I said I am no expert on what happens within the SLC but when the Lubs oils was within the Refinery fence I can quite clearly remember, drums (of all sizes) of finished lub oil ready to go off to the customers.

Furthermore, when we require lub oil within the refinery, it comes from the SLC just across the road.

Hey Fuj'. When the sun is setting I can see your place from Stockport viaduct quite clearly. There is another out there somewhere though in a similar direction.

Nothing wrong with your eyes AM

No other refineries in the North West, maybe you are thinking of the large Ineos (the old ICI) plant at Runcorn but I doubt you can see that from Manchester direction, it's sheltered under Runcorn Hill.

[oilman]

My sources confirm that Shell do blend all their own lubricants.

Cheers

Simon

[Fujisan]

My sources confirm that Shell do blend all their own lubricants.

Cheers

Simon

Thanks for the info Simon

[anchorman]

In which case, the folks at Volkswagen / Audi / Skoda and Ferrari / Maserati and Ferrari Formula One must be dissapointed that all the oil they put has first fill in there engines actually comes from a small company in Stoke!

We used to supply all of these with brake pads and the last thing they were worried about is what the factory looks like or where it is located. They just screw suppliers down to the last penny. We used to have a posh technology centre in Germany where a lot of business was conducted from but a lot of product came from our factories in the czech republic or south africa or wherever else it was cheap to make. A factory in stoke would have been a palace. However, those factories belonging to fuchs silkolene and century were in any case blending huge amounts of oil fo various customers.

I do find this all quite interesting and when I get chance I may try to look up this old contact and see if he can elaborate on what he said and who does what for who etc.