Winter Heating

[john1944]

I apologise for using the words Ford and Toyota in the same sentence; it is a little like comparing a turkey with a Seagull for Christmas dinner. However, Ford have as an almost standard fitting, a very useful gadget in the way of a heated windscreen. Even in temperate climates like the U.K. this is an extremely beneficial aid; not just for early morning departures, but in the event of freezing fog as well. Is it not time Toyota added this to their specification. For firms like Autoglass to supply non standard such screens would not be practical, because of the wiring that would have to go with it. Also Landrover for one, supply vehicles with diesel heaters, another inovation which helps early morning departures. Does anyone know of any diesel heaters that could be fitted to a Rav, and if so, what do you think the approximate cost would be.

Many thanks, John

[anchorman]

John

There is a heater element available for the Canadian market but on the 4.3 it only consists of a strip that is located under the wiper park position and up the side of the screen to stop a build up of snow. Funnily enough there is also a combustion heater for really cold climates but again not for here.

You could get a combustion heater that is commonly fitted to trucks with sleeper cabs. This can be retrofitted and will heat the interior and pre-warm the engine. If you want a price you can go to almost any truck dealer as fitting them is commonplace.

http://www.eberspacher.com/products/water-heating/

Cheers.

[three5]

I apologise for using the words Ford and Toyota in the same sentence; it is a little like comparing a turkey with a Seagull for Christmas dinner. However, Ford have as an almost standard fitting, a very useful gadget in the way of a heated windscreen. Even in temperate climates like the U.K. this is an extremely beneficial aid; not just for early morning departures, but in the event of freezing fog as well. Is it not time Toyota added this to their specification. For firms like Autoglass to supply non standard such screens would not be practical, because of the wiring that would have to go with it. Also Landrover for one, supply vehicles with diesel heaters, another inovation which helps early morning departures. Does anyone know of any diesel heaters that could be fitted to a Rav, and if so, what do you think the approximate cost would be.

Many thanks, John

The heated front screens on Fords have crimped 0.0005" wires in the vinyl interlayer between the two layers of glass. I'm fairly certain that Ford have a patent on the system which perhaps explains why other manufacturers don't fit them.

[duncerduncs]

The heated front screens on Fords have crimped 0.0005" wires in the vinyl interlayer between the two layers of glass. I'm fairly certain that Ford have a patent on the system which perhaps explains why other manufacturers don't fit them.

We talked about this on a "slow" day at work recently!

Ford do have the design patent for the heated screen and any future Jaguar or Land Rover probably wont be allowed to use it...

[three5]

The heated front screens on Fords have crimped 0.0005" wires in the vinyl interlayer between the two layers of glass. I'm fairly certain that Ford have a patent on the system which perhaps explains why other manufacturers don't fit them.

We talked about this on a "slow" day at work recently!

Ford do have the design patent for the heated screen and any future Jaguar or Land Rover probably wont be allowed to use it...

I think that this may be the one: http://www.wikipatents.com/6011244.html

I'm a bit supprised that the patent is so late as Triplex Safety Glass, part of Pilkingtons, was making these in the late 1960's

[bothwell_buyer]

well done three5

I had Fords at work and had the heated windscreen - yes it was useful, but I also found it annoying as the element was visible sometimes - especially with my glasses on. I knew, of course, that it was patented.

John1944 - you have an oil burner already so why not instal an oil heater? Then you could supplement the tank with red diesel for the non-driving use of the motor. You could easily argue with customers Exercise that its for heating use! Instal a chimney through the roof so you don't get fogged out by the fumes and by doing so, you will beat Hoovies Pimp my Ride achievements. Link that in with a solar panel on the rear screen space to capture extra heat which you could store in your hot water cylinder, strapped to the roof. On top of which is another solar panel to generate electricity for the electric pump to keep the hot water to the cabin circulating (you can buy very good electric water pumps from a seller on eBay which are very efficient) thus not depleting the scarce resources of yer RAV Battery.

Or dump the dieselly smelly motor and get yersel a turbo petrol RAV which heats up within seconds and has no need for additional heaters. :P :P :P

If you choose to go down the former route, ask ancs if he has any surplus red diesel - or maybe duncerduncs will let you hook into his overhead wires??? Only problem with overhead wires solution is you need to make sure you can go at 125mph on the motorways :lol:

[anchorman]

The frustrating thing is that the Daihatsu Terios which is made by Toyota Corp' on the RAV 4.2 running gear comes with a thin film heated front screen. This has a layer of conductive material so thin that you can see through it (no wires in view). It also heats the entire screen.

If little brother gets it on all but the base model why can't we!!!?

[three5]

The frustrating thing is that the Daihatsu Terios which is made by Toyota Corp' on the RAV 4.2 running gear comes with a thin film heated front screen. This has a layer of conductive material so thin that you can see through it (no wires in view). It also heats the entire screen.

If little brother gets it on all but the base model why can't we!!!?

Looks as though they got round the patent by using a different heating technology. Don't know if you have come across this in your engineering days, but the thin film is produced by a process know as "sputtering" in which an anode of the material you are putting onto the glass is charged with a high voltage with both the glass and anode in a vacuum chamber. A thin film, probably only 7 or 8 atoms thick, is deposited on the glass, overlapping some bus-bars which are printed onto the glass using the sort of silver rich "paint" that you recommended for repair of rear heated screens. The material used as the anode is usually gold - so the process ain't cheap. Having said that there is a lot more of these Surface Engineering techniques in use now on metal components so there may have been a cost breakthrough of which I'm unaware.

In the '60s and 70's the process was used almost exclusively on aircraft windscreens where cost was not such a sensitive issue. In those days it was reckoned that it required 55w/ square foot to demist a window and 550w/ square foot to de-ice.

Apologies for rambling ( again )!

[bothwell_buyer]

The frustrating thing is that the Daihatsu Terios which is made by Toyota Corp' on the RAV 4.2 running gear comes with a thin film heated front screen. This has a layer of conductive material so thin that you can see through it (no wires in view). It also heats the entire screen.

If little brother gets it on all but the base model why can't we!!!?

Looks as though they got round the patent by using a different heating technology. Don't know if you have come across this in your engineering days, but the thin film is produced by a process know as "sputtering" in which an anode of the material you are putting onto the glass is charged with a high voltage with both the glass and anode in a vacuum chamber. A thin film, probably only 7 or 8 atoms thick, is deposited on the glass, overlapping some bus-bars which are printed onto the glass using the sort of silver rich "paint" that you recommended for repair of rear heated screens. The material used as the anode is usually gold - so the process ain't cheap. Having said that there is a lot more of these Surface Engineering techniques in use now on metal components so there may have been a cost breakthrough of which I'm unaware.

In the '60s and 70's the process was used almost exclusively on aircraft windscreens where cost was not such a sensitive issue. In those days it was reckoned that it required 55w/ square foot to demist a window and 550w/ square foot to de-ice.

Apologies for rambling ( again )!

One of the more interesting rambles - I must try harder!!!! Well done!

[three5]

The frustrating thing is that the Daihatsu Terios which is made by Toyota Corp' on the RAV 4.2 running gear comes with a thin film heated front screen. This has a layer of conductive material so thin that you can see through it (no wires in view). It also heats the entire screen.

If little brother gets it on all but the base model why can't we!!!?

Looks as though they got round the patent by using a different heating technology. Don't know if you have come across this in your engineering days, but the thin film is produced by a process know as "sputtering" in which an anode of the material you are putting onto the glass is charged with a high voltage with both the glass and anode in a vacuum chamber. A thin film, probably only 7 or 8 atoms thick, is deposited on the glass, overlapping some bus-bars which are printed onto the glass using the sort of silver rich "paint" that you recommended for repair of rear heated screens. The material used as the anode is usually gold - so the process ain't cheap. Having said that there is a lot more of these Surface Engineering techniques in use now on metal components so there may have been a cost breakthrough of which I'm unaware.

In the '60s and 70's the process was used almost exclusively on aircraft windscreens where cost was not such a sensitive issue. In those days it was reckoned that it required 55w/ square foot to demist a window and 550w/ square foot to de-ice.

Apologies for rambling ( again )!

One of the more interesting rambles - I must try harder!!!! Well done!

Hi Bothy,

you could have a ramble on Scotch Whisky - you could go miles on that ;)

[bothwell_buyer]

The frustrating thing is that the Daihatsu Terios which is made by Toyota Corp' on the RAV 4.2 running gear comes with a thin film heated front screen. This has a layer of conductive material so thin that you can see through it (no wires in view). It also heats the entire screen.

If little brother gets it on all but the base model why can't we!!!?

Looks as though they got round the patent by using a different heating technology. Don't know if you have come across this in your engineering days, but the thin film is produced by a process know as "sputtering" in which an anode of the material you are putting onto the glass is charged with a high voltage with both the glass and anode in a vacuum chamber. A thin film, probably only 7 or 8 atoms thick, is deposited on the glass, overlapping some bus-bars which are printed onto the glass using the sort of silver rich "paint" that you recommended for repair of rear heated screens. The material used as the anode is usually gold - so the process ain't cheap. Having said that there is a lot more of these Surface Engineering techniques in use now on metal components so there may have been a cost breakthrough of which I'm unaware.

In the '60s and 70's the process was used almost exclusively on aircraft windscreens where cost was not such a sensitive issue. In those days it was reckoned that it required 55w/ square foot to demist a window and 550w/ square foot to de-ice.

Apologies for rambling ( again )!

One of the more interesting rambles - I must try harder!!!! Well done!

Hi Bothy,

you could have a ramble on Scotch Whisky - you could go miles on that ;)

Need to think on how the RAV can be brought in - to keep on topic

[anchorman]

A very interesting ramble indeed!

I only know about the process ***** somebody I work with used to sell the technology. Our trains have them and when they work they are very good. We aren't allowed anything that will obscure the view or cause halo's at night (our signalling can show one or two yellow lights and there must be no confusion).

However, the theory all falls apart in summer when there are hundreds of flies splattered on the glass!!!

[vivianM]

The frustrating thing is that the Daihatsu Terios which is made by Toyota Corp' on the RAV 4.2 running gear comes with a thin film heated front screen. This has a layer of conductive material so thin that you can see through it (no wires in view). It also heats the entire screen.

If little brother gets it on all but the base model why can't we!!!?

Looks as though they got round the patent by using a different heating technology. Don't know if you have come across this in your engineering days, but the thin film is produced by a process know as "sputtering" in which an anode of the material you are putting onto the glass is charged with a high voltage with both the glass and anode in a vacuum chamber. A thin film, probably only 7 or 8 atoms thick, is deposited on the glass, overlapping some bus-bars which are printed onto the glass using the sort of silver rich "paint" that you recommended for repair of rear heated screens. The material used as the anode is usually gold - so the process ain't cheap. Having said that there is a lot more of these Surface Engineering techniques in use now on metal components so there may have been a cost breakthrough of which I'm unaware.

In the '60s and 70's the process was used almost exclusively on aircraft windscreens where cost was not such a sensitive issue. In those days it was reckoned that it required 55w/ square foot to demist a window and 550w/ square foot to de-ice.

Apologies for rambling ( again )!

Just a bit more of a ramble!

Some years ago my company had the job of abrasive blast cleaning all the gold off one of these chambers for a major glass manufacturer - the operators thought they were on a gold (pun) mine but were searched every time they left the premises.

We also sprayed molten aluminium onto glass in lines making up a circuit for heating elements but the lines were about 1/4 inch wide so no use for windscreens!

Sprayed aluminium is excellent for exaust systems but do not ask to get it done me as I am now retired.

Guy