Flywheel

[jibbbbbb]

can any one advise me on this one , ive been told that this is a better option than the dual mass flywheel http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...3d346a3ff9399b2 is this correct or should i stick to a dual mass flywheel thank

[Parts-King]

There are people who have fitted solid flywheels to their cars without problems, HOWEVER, they dont fit a DMF for fun, it is fitted for a reason, and that is to take out all the engine vibrations. Read ANCHORMANS PINNED THREAD which tells you more about how it all works

Kingo

[jibbbbbb]

thank parts king , but done nothing but read about this for weeks . i no how the flywheel works and why there is a dual mass flywheel fitted , but as ever one on here knows there do tend to fail and bolts and bolt holes start to wear , just wondering if any one on here has fitted a single mass flywheel or has had one fitted , and did the vibration stop all together thanks again

[Parts-King]

What happens is the rubber insulating materials breaks down and the springs fall out! The bolts were modified in production from about 2003 onwards, I doubt the bolts have come loose causing the bolt holes to stretch. There is a taxi driver on here who's name escapes me, but he has fitted this solid flywheel on his Avensis

Kingo

[bothwell_buyer]

having a guess, I suppose you could fit a solid flywheel and a stronger clutch to cope with any vibrations??? Sit on an air cushion; wrap the gear lever with some pipe insulation; and wear soft rubber padded gloves??? :D

What happened with diesel engines before the DMF was invented??

[Parts-King]

having a guess, I suppose you could fit a solid flywheel and a stronger clutch to cope with any vibrations??? Sit on an air cushion; wrap the gear lever with some pipe insulation; and wear soft rubber padded gloves??? :D

What happened with diesel engines before the DMF was invented??

They were noisy smelly things that rattled like a tractor and loosened your fillings, they only put them in vans, but somebody thought it was a good idea to make a car with a diesel engine, then people complained coz they were noisy/smelly/rattly things. I dunno, there's just no pleasing peeps these days

Kingo

[bothwell_buyer]

having a guess, I suppose you could fit a solid flywheel and a stronger clutch to cope with any vibrations??? Sit on an air cushion; wrap the gear lever with some pipe insulation; and wear soft rubber padded gloves??? :D

What happened with diesel engines before the DMF was invented??

They were noisy smelly things that rattled like a tractor and loosened your fillings, they only put them in vans, but somebody thought it was a good idea to make a car with a diesel engine, then people complained coz they were noisy/smelly/rattly things. I dunno, there's just no pleasing peeps these days

Kingo

Crumbs

Next you'll say that somebody thought putting 5 doors with a diesel engine was a good idea as well ! :lol:

[Parts-King]

Well Mr G Brown will be looking at ways of increasing taxes soon, maybe a door tax? the more doors the stiffer the tax

[chatman]

having a guess, I suppose you could fit a solid flywheel and a stronger clutch to cope with any vibrations??? Sit on an air cushion; wrap the gear lever with some pipe insulation; and wear soft rubber padded gloves??? :D

What happened with diesel engines before the DMF was invented??

They were noisy smelly things that rattled like a tractor and loosened your fillings, they only put them in vans, but somebody thought it was a good idea to make a car with a diesel engine, then people complained coz they were noisy/smelly/rattly things. I dunno, there's just no pleasing peeps these days

Kingo

NO they put them in Older LR and Nedflanders and watched as people flocked to buy these then wait for the inevitable breakdowns to happen and dentist appointments to put your fillings back in..... :wacko:

I can ask my neighbor farmer next time he comes trundling past in his JCB Fasttrack what the single DMF is like.....But these newer tractors have suspension on the seats as well....so maybe fitting some extra spring coils under the seats may help

Joking aside... no one on here in the RAV section has fitted a Single DMF....You could always be the first :unsure: :unsure:

[bothwell_buyer]

Uhhh

This means that its no longer a DMF but a SMF ??

[anchorman]

It isn't a matter of reducing vibration from a comfort point of view. Common rail diesels generate high frequency shocks purely as a result of the way combustion hammers the pistons down. Putting a solid flywheel in will take away the risk of the flywheel falling apart but then something else is going to get hammered and in this case it is the transmission. If any of these manufacturers could cut costs they would but the long term affect on the gearbox has far worse implications. In any case because you take away the damping medium the car will without doubt vibrate worse.

If you are selling the car it won't be your worry but if you are keeping it, what you save in the cost of a flywheel may well cost you a gearbox in the not too distant future. Its up to you but I wouldn't do it.

Are you concerned about your DMF?

[local hero]

I would in general agree with all of the above the dual mass flywheel is there for a good reason and if you have to replace it then an improved dmf is what you should get..However that was not your question, as most know on here I am a black cab driver and on a certain model of cab fitted with a ford duratorque engine we were replacing DMFs every 30000 mls + sometimes less, so a few owners literally had their flywheels welded up to make them solid this caused transmission problems Diff/gearbox.. but now there is a solid fywheel kit available + most owners of that model are having them fitted and so far they aren't causing problems, which considering some double manned cabs do 90000pa is pretty good, but i would only go that route if you intend to keep your rav a long time or you do very very high mileages, Anchs is right putting a solid flywheel on your rav may very well lead to problems further along the drive train..

[Bodgit-fixit-run]

I wouldn't do it. I don't see any saving here. You would need a different clutch for one thing which would probably be more expensive. Has anyone explored the idea of reconning DMFs then we could look at exchange units etc. Just a thought, they do it with other parts like alternators and starter motors. Why not the DMF?

Unfortunately my wife in her infinate wisdom passed my old one on to some tinkers who were collecting scrap metal. I wasn't overly impressed, cos I like to takes things apart to see how they work. It could have been an interesting experiment.

[bothwell_buyer]

From my own experience and others, the 4.1 transmission is good for about 350bhp and doing 1/4 mile sprints from start can't put much more stress on the drivetrain I doubt - changing gear when the revs are well up; lifting the front wheels; running in diff lock at 95mph; - OK its for short periods but the drivetrain is living with the same power during on-road driving. I can't comment on what power the drivetrain of the 4.2 models is capable of withstanding though......but if its the same transmission, then a SMF on a diesel wouldn't pose many problems. As I said earlier, I'd guess it would need an up-rated clutch - we found that part the weakest link.

[anchorman]

Hmmm

What is the best way of explaining this?

It isn't a pure power delivery issue, it is more about the way the power is delivered.

Imagine you have a wooden gate in your garden and it has become stiff to move. If you get your shoulder into it and push it might close it. If you get a lump hammer and knock it shut that might close it too but if you use the lump hammer every time you will eventually knock the door to bits!

[Parts-King]

Hmmm

What is the best way of explaining this?

It isn't a pure power delivery issue, it is more about the way the power is delivered.

Imagine you have a wooden gate in your garden and it has become stiff to move. If you get your shoulder into it and push it might close it. If you get a lump hammer and knock it shut that might close it too but if you use the lump hammer every time you will eventually knock the door to bits!

You have seen my gate?

[bothwell_buyer]

Hmmm

What is the best way of explaining this?

It isn't a pure power delivery issue, it is more about the way the power is delivered.

Imagine you have a wooden gate in your garden and it has become stiff to move. If you get your shoulder into it and push it might close it. If you get a lump hammer and knock it shut that might close it too but if you use the lump hammer every time you will eventually knock the door to bits!

Ye - I approached it from the view of sudden power surge. Admittedly, the diesel engine will put through pulses but it can't be too far away from a turbo petrol - maybe if the diesel had a heavier single mass flywheel to absorb the torque changes??????? Bit like the old steam engines :lol: Now, this is the territory I'm comfortable in.... 5 door oily burners :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

[bothwell_buyer]

Hmmm

What is the best way of explaining this?

It isn't a pure power delivery issue, it is more about the way the power is delivered.

Imagine you have a wooden gate in your garden and it has become stiff to move. If you get your shoulder into it and push it might close it. If you get a lump hammer and knock it shut that might close it too but if you use the lump hammer every time you will eventually knock the door to bits!

You have seen my gate?

See - proves what I've been saying all along about Hinge Insurance !!!!

[Bodgit-fixit-run]

A completely new concept here.

Take two children, Well fed and strong. Fasten one to the crank shaft and the other to the input shaft of the gearbox.

Make sure they hold on to each other REALLY TIGHT.

That would inevitably remove any shocks from the drive chain as children are very malliable and would therefore absorb said shocks.

Don't forget though to get parental permission and social services clearance. That shouldn't be dificult they are good with children.

Everybody gains. The drivechain works. There is a constant supply of parts with a maximum 9 month waiting period. The child gains as well by learning from the inside about physics e.g. Centrefugal forces, The impact of friction, the inner workings of the internal combustion engine and gear ratios. They also learn about geography. Just think of all the places they could visit. Mountaineering and orientation when we go off roading. Just to mention a few.

Sounds good to me. Any takers?

[anchorman]

Admittedly, the diesel engine will put through pulses but it can't be too far away from a turbo petrol - maybe if the diesel had a heavier single mass flywheel to absorb the torque changes???????

A petrol engine is quite different to a diesel engine in its delivery of power. Even in a turbo petrol engine the fuel burns in a controlled and consistent manner which has the affect of forcing the piston down and maintaining pressure through the stroke. A diesel produces what amounts to a small explosion near the top of the stroke that gives the pistons an almighty kick down the bores. They do things on modern diesels to try and smooth things out like injecting more than once through the cycle but it doesn't completely resolve it. The diesel block and crank are stiffened up and the 2.2 has balance shafts in the crankcase so it smooths the engine but not so much the power delivery.

A lot of thought goes into the mass of the flywheel. It has to be heavy enough to try to smooth out delivery but not too heavy that it interferes with how quickly the engine slows down or that begins to affect smooth gear changing. You also have to be careful about how much weight you hang on the end of the crank or it causes too much twist and whip. When the engine is stopped the crank which is only supported on a film of oil sinks and makes contact with the plain bearings. A crank which is unbalanced along its length can cause oil starvation problems when the engine is started during the period when oil is forced into the bearings and the crank is "floated" again.

A replacement flywheel and clutch should weigh the same as the original.

Not much of this applies to your old LR!!! The vibration takes your mind having the skin taken off your knuckles by the window frame when turning the steering wheel. ;)

[jibbbbbb]

!Removed! hell , that a mixed bag of advise. any way took the car to a local garage today , i knew the flywheel was on the way out because the noise and the vibration of the car is now getting silly .it is like a roaring noise in ever gear untill you get to about 2000 revs and the vibration is realy bad now again untill you get above 2000 revs then it stops so on motaways it fine build up the speed and theres no noise at all .

three ?

1--- if the flywheel does go totally will it cause any damage to the rest of the engine, gearbox ect ect

2--- and my local garage has given me price of 800 pound to replace the fly wheel ( and yes this is a dual mass flywheel ) and a new clutch plate thats all in not a bad price

3--- been as ive had no work now in 3 weeks ( building trade ) anyone fancy doing the job for me if i supply the parts , for less than the above. i have looked into doing it myself but to be honest i think its a bit to much for me , i have built loads of mini engines up in the past but i am going back 20 years and things have moved on a long way since then .

any way thanks for all you comments did not think it would get so much responce about the single mass fly wheel, ohhhhh and by the way the single mass flywheel is the same wait as the dualmass flywheel , well that is what i was told because i did ask the ?

thank

[bothwell_buyer]

I can offer to pay the repairs if you build the blockwork up for my double garage - 8m x 7.5m. I've done the concrete slab...altho it needs screeded but thats another job! Free accommodation available for 2 (In the same bed)!!

And I'll get the work done by the specialists who converted my 2 RAVs!!!!

And I have 2 labourers - my father who is 90 - has his good days and bad days......and John who stays here who is 81 next month and a willing helper.

[anchorman]

1/ Yes it can do. It tore the engine backplate to pieces on Chatters when a bolt got trapped betwwen the back of the flywheel and the engine.

2/ I'm sorry to hear about your work situation. It is a big job - certainly too much for one person to drop the box on their own. BFR did it but he set his stall out and did it over several days. If I was to do one I would allow plenty of time and have at least one other strong person for the lift - if not two.

3? I don't blame you for asking and hopefully somebody will come forward. It isn't something I would want to as a commercial venture so it tends to restrict things to very close friends or me! I bought a DMF which hopefully I will never use (a kind of insurance policy) and if it is ever needed I have considered taking it to my local garage and asking them to let me use their lift and give me a hand in and out with the box. I would obviously have to pay something for this but it may considerably reduce the cost (they may tell me to bgr off) but have you thought about doing the same? If you did Minis the actuall changing of the DMF won't be a problem to you.

[anchorman]

I can offer to pay the repairs if you build the blockwork up for my double garage - 8m x 7.5m. I've done the concrete slab...altho it needs screeded but thats another job! Free accommodation available for 2 (In the same bed)!!

And I'll get the work done by the specialists who converted my 2 RAVs!!!!

You see that is another option.

Bothy.

Do the 2 people have to sleep in the same bed as each other or the same bed as you? I just think that is worthy of clarification despite your offer!

[bothwell_buyer]

I can offer to pay the repairs if you build the blockwork up for my double garage - 8m x 7.5m. I've done the concrete slab...altho it needs screeded but thats another job! Free accommodation available for 2 (In the same bed)!!

And I'll get the work done by the specialists who converted my 2 RAVs!!!!

You see that is another option.

Bothy.

Do the 2 people have to sleep in the same bed as each other or the same bed as you? I just think that is worthy of clarification despite your offer!

I edited the post to add in the labourers - and to clarify, they have their own beds and bedrooms. We have a spare bedroom with 1 double bed in it......I and the boss have a king size bed, fit for a king...... :P

There is a conservatory could be used; or the Humber Hawk out the back with a fan heater (?) and the original single garage still stands and is heated (to save the gallons of paint etc that is stored).

edit: oh and I do have a collection of lpg gas bottles and a large space heater for working outdoors.....