So My Carina E Conked Out While Driving Yesterday...

[bilal]

** NEW QUESTION! **

I didn't want to start a new topic so I thought I'd just use this existing one.

I'm planning on trying some immobiliser resync routines I've found on this forum, but before I do I was wondering if there's anything to be concerned about when unplugging the Battery. Most of the time I read about disconnecting the negative lead only, but in one case the guide says to disconnect both.

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Anyway, what I'm wondering is - should I be concerned about how long the Battery is left disconnected? Are there any systems in the car relating to the alarm/immobiliser that would mess up if I left the Battery disconnected? I guess if there are then it's probably not much use worrying now as the car's been sitting out there with the negative terminal disconnected for over a week (I wanted to conserve battery power while the car was sitting idle and unrepaired).

I would've thought such important things as transponder codes and the like would be stored in some sort of rom that wasn't affected by power loss.

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OLD BIT:

Hey all, just signed up as I've been poking around on here since I started driving my big bro's Carina about 5 months ago.

It's a Carina E 1.8 ('97 I think, R reg anyway), 120000-odd miles on the clock.

Yesterday on the way to work suddenly the engine just cut out. My initial thought was I'd stalled it but the radio and electronics were still on which doesn't happen when it stalls. While the car still had momentum I managed to roll it onto the pavement and luckily enough this happened a hundred yards or so from a mechanic :)

I tried starting it again but there was no response at all when turning the ignition. Nothing. Not even trying to turn over. No ticking like what I've heard when the battery is too low. Complete silence. The only thing different between the key in the 'on' setting and the ignition setting is that the airbag light turns off.

Oil level is fine, coolant, water, etc, all check out. All the electronics were still functioning fine - lights and radio at least - and when we wheeled it into the mechanic's garage he faffed around with it for about a half hour or so. Connecting the battery directly to the engine caused the engine to start up but it wouldn't turn over, similar to when you try and start a dodgy car when it's cold. That meant that the engine is probably ok (mechanic's initial thought was that it's the timing belt or something like that)

A friend of mine is a qualified Toyota mechanic so I got him to speak to the guy on the phone. The mechanic thought it might be something to do with the immobiliser, but my friend wasn't so sure. Nonetheless, seeing as the mechanic wasn't too sure what to do next, he towed it back to my house where it's now sitting out there all alone :(

He said to try unplugging the battery overnight to see what happens, which I did. My friend said he'll pop round some time this week, but I wanted to fiddle about in there anyway to see what I could find out in the meantime.

I tried resyncing the keyfob to activate/deactivate the alarm in case it was something to do with the immobiliser (our keyfob's a bit dodgy, sometimes it won't lock so I just use the key to lock/unlcok the car) and tried the ignition again, but no such luck.

Then I got hold of the diagnostics codes from here but here's the problem:

The diagnostics mode (bridging TE1 and E1 together) causes the engine check light to flash a certain number of times (or to simply flash continuously if there is no fault) which is fine, but in my case the light isn't flashing at all. I have a feeling it's because the engine itself won't turn on. Also, the green ECONOMY light that used to light up when we first got the car has since ceased to function for a good few years now. I'm wondering if maybe the fuse for it went and also the engine check light along with that. Does the diagnostics mode not work at all if there's a problem with the engine?

Also, does anyone have any idea what sort of things would cause this? My dad was googling when I rang to tell him the car had broken down and he read that it may be something to do with the ignition coil.

So as it stands the possibilities seem to be:

1) Immobiliser

2) Ignition Coil

3) Something else

The problem with (1) is we're not even sure the car actually has an immobiliser. It's not mentioned in the manual, anyway. Supposing it did, is there a way to bypass it?

If it's sunny outside in the morning I'm planning on poking around the fuses with my voltmeter to see if any have been damaged. I was wondering if there's a way to read the fault codes without the use of the engine check light, i.e. can I hook my voltmeter up to one of the pins on the diagnostic connector to figure out the codes (seeing as it just sends voltage pulses to the light anyway)? I checked the battery and it's reading 12V-odd. I also had the radio on (quietly) while being towed back and it was fine. I also have the Haynes manual for my car, and will be using it to check the fuses. Even if I don't find anything, at least when the professionals do show up I can save them time by having checked all the fuses already!

Thanks in advance for any replies, even if it's just speculation!

[Josh_]

If the dashboard bulb isn't lighting up, you can replace it easily enough. If it's just for reading the fault code, you could swap it with one of the others for a few minutes.

The dashboard bulbs should all light up when you turn the ignition on without starting the engine.

[cmia]

does the car crank ?

ie turn over ?

it could be a jammed starter motor.

- put in 2nd gear and rock car afew times

then try

[bilal]

Cheers for the replies, guys, I had no idea as I either didn't set it to email or it doesn't email when I get replies!

If the dashboard bulb isn't lighting up, you can replace it easily enough. If it's just for reading the fault code, you could swap it with one of the others for a few minutes.

The dashboard bulbs should all light up when you turn the ignition on without starting the engine.

Well a bunch of lights do come on when you turn the key - airbag light and some others (airbag light goes out when you turn the key to the ignition position) - but I'm not too sure about changing the bulb - it seems you have to remove the steering wheel first to remove the instrument panel and get at the lights behind it and I'm not too keen on doing that.

does the car crank ?

ie turn over ?

it could be a jammed starter motor.

- put in 2nd gear and rock car afew times

then try

The car doesn't crank at all. There's a small ticking sound that can be heard but it's very quiet and it only occurs within the first half-second or so of turning the ignition. It's not the same ticking sound I heard from our other car when the Battery was really flat.

I had a mechanic come round yesterday and have a look. He removed the top cover of the engine and spark plugs, and then tried manually starting it by poking somewhere inside the bonnet behind the engine with a screwdriver and it made this noise and sparked but that was it. I think if the engine was closed up properly and he'd done that, it would've cranked (but still not turned over) just like it did the first time when the first mechanic manually tried starting it.

This mechanic thinks it's the timing belt but I'm still not sure if it is. The belt is still there and looks like it's connected, and I assumed even if the timing belt is the problem, there'd be some other sounds going on when trying to start the car.

[BALIKBAYAN]

The starter should turn around the crankshaft if the timingbelt has snapped, but you would not get any ignition as the camshaft will not rotate.

Are you sure that all your fuses is ok, even those big ones in the engine fusebox?

Are the relays ok? There are some relays that must work to get the car running. If they don't work the car will not start.

Have you looked under the timingbeltcovers if the timing belt really is there? The belts you see when you open the bonnet is the belt for the generator/waterpump and the power steering and if you have aircondition you will also see that belt. Total 3 belts that are easy to see.

[bilal]

The belt is there, I saw it myself (the mechanic pointed it out to me after removing the engine cover where the spark plugs are).

It turns out it's almost 100% related to the alarm/immobiliser. We called the AA man to come check it out and that's what he decided (it's also what the original mechanic thought). Going to get his immobiliser guy to check it out and see for sure, hopefully within a few days. I wish I'd sorted this out sooner - I've been carless for the past three weeks :(

[bilal]

Hey all, I've added a new question in the original post. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[scatty247]

** NEW QUESTION! **

I didn't want to start a new topic so I thought I'd just use this existing one.

I'm planning on trying some immobiliser resync routines I've found on this forum, but before I do I was wondering if there's anything to be concerned about when unplugging the battery. Most of the time I read about disconnecting the negative lead only, but in one case the guide says to disconnect both.

====================================================================

Anyway, what I'm wondering is - should I be concerned about how long the battery is left disconnected? Are there any systems in the car relating to the alarm/immobiliser that would mess up if I left the battery disconnected? I guess if there are then it's probably not much use worrying now as the car's been sitting out there with the negative terminal disconnected for over a week (I wanted to conserve battery power while the car was sitting idle and unrepaired).

I would've thought such important things as transponder codes and the like would be stored in some sort of rom that wasn't affected by power loss.

====================================================================

OLD BIT:

Hey all, just signed up as I've been poking around on here since I started driving my big bro's Carina about 5 months ago.

It's a Carina E 1.8 ('97 I think, R reg anyway), 120000-odd miles on the clock.

Yesterday on the way to work suddenly the engine just cut out. My initial thought was I'd stalled it but the radio and electronics were still on which doesn't happen when it stalls. While the car still had momentum I managed to roll it onto the pavement and luckily enough this happened a hundred yards or so from a mechanic :)

I tried starting it again but there was no response at all when turning the ignition. Nothing. Not even trying to turn over. No ticking like what I've heard when the battery is too low. Complete silence. The only thing different between the key in the 'on' setting and the ignition setting is that the airbag light turns off.

Oil level is fine, coolant, water, etc, all check out. All the electronics were still functioning fine - lights and radio at least - and when we wheeled it into the mechanic's garage he faffed around with it for about a half hour or so. Connecting the battery directly to the engine caused the engine to start up but it wouldn't turn over, similar to when you try and start a dodgy car when it's cold. That meant that the engine is probably ok (mechanic's initial thought was that it's the timing belt or something like that)

A friend of mine is a qualified Toyota mechanic so I got him to speak to the guy on the phone. The mechanic thought it might be something to do with the immobiliser, but my friend wasn't so sure. Nonetheless, seeing as the mechanic wasn't too sure what to do next, he towed it back to my house where it's now sitting out there all alone :(

He said to try unplugging the battery overnight to see what happens, which I did. My friend said he'll pop round some time this week, but I wanted to fiddle about in there anyway to see what I could find out in the meantime.

I tried resyncing the keyfob to activate/deactivate the alarm in case it was something to do with the immobiliser (our keyfob's a bit dodgy, sometimes it won't lock so I just use the key to lock/unlcok the car) and tried the ignition again, but no such luck.

Then I got hold of the diagnostics codes from here but here's the problem:

The diagnostics mode (bridging TE1 and E1 together) causes the engine check light to flash a certain number of times (or to simply flash continuously if there is no fault) which is fine, but in my case the light isn't flashing at all. I have a feeling it's because the engine itself won't turn on. Also, the green ECONOMY light that used to light up when we first got the car has since ceased to function for a good few years now. I'm wondering if maybe the fuse for it went and also the engine check light along with that. Does the diagnostics mode not work at all if there's a problem with the engine?

Also, does anyone have any idea what sort of things would cause this? My dad was googling when I rang to tell him the car had broken down and he read that it may be something to do with the ignition coil.

So as it stands the possibilities seem to be:

1) Immobiliser

2) Ignition Coil

3) Something else

The problem with (1) is we're not even sure the car actually has an immobiliser. It's not mentioned in the manual, anyway. Supposing it did, is there a way to bypass it?

If it's sunny outside in the morning I'm planning on poking around the fuses with my voltmeter to see if any have been damaged. I was wondering if there's a way to read the fault codes without the use of the engine check light, i.e. can I hook my voltmeter up to one of the pins on the diagnostic connector to figure out the codes (seeing as it just sends voltage pulses to the light anyway)? I checked the battery and it's reading 12V-odd. I also had the radio on (quietly) while being towed back and it was fine. I also have the Haynes manual for my car, and will be using it to check the fuses. Even if I don't find anything, at least when the professionals do show up I can save them time by having checked all the fuses already!

Thanks in advance for any replies, even if it's just speculation!

hi i've got m reg carina e 1.6 and i recently had problems like yours sometimes it would start other times i'd have to roll it. i thought it was dodgy connections in ignition but anyway took garage good few hours to work it out, as the alarm still worked but the immobiliser had packed in. i didn't understand why i could still bump it but followed there advice. as it would of been too expensive to repair i paid 50 quid and had the ignition bypassing the the immob, worked fine since also my manual didn't mention immob either

[Josh_]

Cheers for the replies, guys, I had no idea as I either didn't set it to email or it doesn't email when I get replies!

If the dashboard bulb isn't lighting up, you can replace it easily enough. If it's just for reading the fault code, you could swap it with one of the others for a few minutes.

The dashboard bulbs should all light up when you turn the ignition on without starting the engine.

Well a bunch of lights do come on when you turn the key - airbag light and some others (airbag light goes out when you turn the key to the ignition position) - but I'm not too sure about changing the bulb - it seems you have to remove the steering wheel first to remove the instrument panel and get at the lights behind it and I'm not too keen on doing that.

Maybe a bit late to help, but for the record, it's not that big a job. I changed some of the dash bulbs on my Carina and it was a ~10 minute job. Just from memory, it was a matter of tilting the steering wheel down as far as possible with the adjuster, undoing a handful of screws from underneath the overhang at the top of the instrument cluster, and pulling the whole thing out.

As for the new question, I haven't had any trouble on those lines. When I was away for four months, the Battery died after a fortnight or so, so it must have been sitting unpowered for 4 months or so. I don't know if it makes any difference to have things completely disconnected, but I suspect not - they were disconnected for a day or two whilst the Battery was charging.

[bilal]

Thanks josh, I'll probably have a fiddle with the bulbs when I get the car back.

I took the Carina to my mate's Toyota dealership and it's been there for a few weeks now. They've been trying some things and running tests and they're convinced the ECU has been damaged. Apparently there's no communication from it at all. He thinks replacing the ECU could cost around £600 or so but (and I'm not assuming he's trying to diddle me of course) I'm wondering if that could really be that much.

I'm not sure how unique each ECU is, how well matched it is to the engine it controls, but there seems to be a similar (maybe identical) ECU going on eBay that's ending in a few hours. So I've no idea if ECU replacement involves accessing the old ECU, reading the data from it and then programming the replacement with the same values.

Ideally if I managed to get an ECU from the same model/year as mine (engine is 7A-FE) I was hoping it would simply be a case of unscrewing the old one, replacing it and hooking everything back up.