Re-map

[buckyguilder]

Hi all could someone please advise, I was informed to-day by toyota that my june 2008 2.2 T spirt tourer. Was due a software upgrade which he called a remap, he claims that this will give a better MPG return, its booked in for tuesday. Can any one please advise if this remap is worthwhile.

Further I have a complete DVD navigation map 2007/2008 ver 1 unused for sale if anyone is interested.

Regards Buckyguilder.

[Heidfirst]

the last advisory on the Toyota site is "7K1E-0616 07/11/2007 Engine ECU Reprogramming on AD Engines with DPNR, DPF or CCO " http://techdoc.toyota-europe.com/toms_cabs/EN/7K1E-0616.pdf

Needless to say on a June 2008 car you wouldn't expect that to be needed but have come ex.factory ...

[Twot]

Thankyou Heidfirst for the information!

I have a T-Spirit 2007, and not sure if it was done (no stamp in service book), as I got the car one year old, and it was previously with Toyota. I will contact the dealer to find out. Though I cannot complain about fuel consumption - seem quite good.

Regards

Twot

the last advisory on the Toyota site is "7K1E-0616 07/11/2007 Engine ECU Reprogramming on AD Engines with DPNR, DPF or CCO " http://techdoc.toyota-europe.com/toms_cabs/EN/7K1E-0616.pdf

Needless to say on a June 2008 car you wouldn't expect that to be needed but have come ex.factory ...

[Dunkelmann]

I just had it done on my 20K service. No idea what it is for but I guess if it isn't done then perhaps the warranty is void.

[toyota-tech-21]

hi, i work for a toyota dealer and iv carried out lots of re-maps. there on deisels only and the rav4 auris n avensis are affected. it basicly prevents the car from over fueling as carbon build up on these engines are becoming a problem but the upgrade prevents the carbon build.

[t-spiritpete]

Hi to all,

my 2007 2.2 D4D T-spirit (39,000mls) is going in for a remap on Thursday so I will give you some feedback. My local Toyota service dept were very helpful when I booked the car in even though i didn't buy the car there, unlike the local Mitsubishi dealership with my last car! I have been getting 38-39mpg round town and 60-62mpg on a decent A road/ motorway run keeping in the 60-70mph range so I have been happy with these figures so far, hopefully things won't be worse as the remap addresses an "over fueling" situation at low engine temperatures which can cause excessive carbon build up, cheers for now Pete.

[cmia]

hi, i work for a toyota dealer and iv carried out lots of re-maps. there on deisels only and the rav4 auris n avensis are affected. it basicly prevents the car from over fueling as carbon build up on these engines are becoming a problem but the upgrade prevents the carbon build.

Can you explain to me...

how a ecu reflash will stop carbon rebuilt

when the piston design of the engine maybe the actuall problem.

All I see here is toyota hiding the issue

[Dunkelmann]

Also, the add-on diesel tuning devices work by tricking the engine into over-fuelling. Does that mean they are going to get carbon build up because of that. I have to agree with cmia that the reason stated by Toyota seems a bit inadequate. Perhaps there is more detail somewhere?

[cmia]

Also, the add-on diesel tuning devices work by tricking the engine into over-fuelling. Does that mean they are going to get carbon build up because of that. I have to agree with cmia that the reason stated by Toyota seems a bit inadequate. Perhaps there is more detail somewhere?

The issue here my friend is,

looks like the newer engines have all the same design faults as the 1.8 VVTI's

Those engines suffer from carbon build up on the pistons,

They also consume alot of engine oil.

Remapping the ECU, wont fix a physical design problem.

All it will do, is prevent the issue showing up earlier then expected ...

[t-spiritpete]

Also, the add-on diesel tuning devices work by tricking the engine into over-fuelling. Does that mean they are going to get carbon build up because of that. I have to agree with cmia that the reason stated by Toyota seems a bit inadequate. Perhaps there is more detail somewhere?

The issue here my friend is,

looks like the newer engines have all the same design faults as the 1.8 VVTI's

Those engines suffer from carbon build up on the pistons,

They also consume alot of engine oil.

Remapping the ECU, wont fix a physical design problem.

All it will do, is prevent the issue showing up earlier then expected ...

Seems to be quite logical to me ...... too much diesel fuel at low engine temp = unburnt fuel = carbon, simple! maybe some of you guys should apply for a job in the engine design dept with Mr T in Japan to show them just where they are going wrong. All car manufacturers have problems (a lot more than Toyota) it's great to see that Toyota are addressing things. I don't understand why some people spend time to join a forum and then come out with negative comments, it doesn't help ...... it worries people who may not know a lot about cars!

By the way as you well know the 1.8vvti is a petrol engine and cannot be directly compared to the 2.2d4d, and yes I am a Toyota fan ...... that's why I joined this forum.

[Dunkelmann]

I hope you'll enjoy the disparate views on the forum. Life's like that in a forum - you'll always get positive and negative comments; probably more of the latter as people tend to highlight problems rather than praise.

Since you seemed to refer to me personally by quoting me:

1) The original post was about D4D diesels and the recall was for diesel engines. Hence my reference was to diesel tuning devices overfuelling and exacerbating the problem.

2) I simply said I found the explanation inadequate - not wrong. I don't claim to be an expert, but I'd like to be treated intelligently by Toyota and told exactly why they are changing the spec of my car.

[t-spiritpete]

I hope you'll enjoy the disparate views on the forum. Life's like that in a forum - you'll always get positive and negative comments; probably more of the latter as people tend to highlight problems rather than praise.

Since you seemed to refer to me personally by quoting me:

1) The original post was about D4D diesels and the recall was for diesel engines. Hence my reference was to diesel tuning devices overfuelling and exacerbating the problem.

2) I simply said I found the explanation inadequate - not wrong. I don't claim to be an expert, but I'd like to be treated intelligently by Toyota and told exactly why they are changing the spec of my car.

"

Most definitely not you Dunkelmann, I apologize if it read that way. I do take on board your comment on "different views" and will try to restrain myself in future but some others on here who appear to claim to know a lot sometimes get my back up, cheers and hope you accept my apology in the spirit that it is intended, no more politics from me then .....Pete.

PS. My 2.2d4d had the remap done yesterday at 39,000 and seems to be running fine, I will keep you posted.

[cmia]

Seems to be quite logical to me ...... too much diesel fuel at low engine temp = unburnt fuel = carbon, simple! maybe some of you guys should apply for a job in the engine design dept with Mr T in Japan to show them just where they are going wrong. All car manufacturers have problems (a lot more than Toyota) it's great to see that Toyota are addressing things. I don't understand why some people spend time to join a forum and then come out with negative comments, it doesn't help ...... it worries people who may not know a lot about cars!

By the way as you well know the 1.8vvti is a petrol engine and cannot be directly compared to the 2.2d4d, and yes I am a Toyota fan ...... that's why I joined this forum.

It sure feels like you have ..... missed the point out here

I am a taxi driver, not only have I owned toyotas from day one, I feel like the current toyota cars are infact breaking down alot quicker then the previous ones and have lots of generic faults that toyota and the dealers are happy in hiding.

lets compare the current gen Diesels to Petrols

2.2 D4D

Suffer

poor mpg / Smoke

engine oil usage

bore wear

carbon build up

head gasket faliure

1.8 VVTI

Engine oil usage

bore wear

carbon build up

head gasket faliure

My comments are not negative, but are just highlighting what the problems are, if you can not get past understanding then maybe you should not have joint the forum. me and several other people spend time out helping other forum members get to the bottom of their car problems. I can understand that all new cars have faults, and can be "fixed".

In light of all these issues, i do not intend to replace my mrk2 toyota, and when I do replace it, it will be with an accord 2.2 Diesel.

[t-spiritpete]

Seems to be quite logical to me ...... too much diesel fuel at low engine temp = unburnt fuel = carbon, simple! maybe some of you guys should apply for a job in the engine design dept with Mr T in Japan to show them just where they are going wrong. All car manufacturers have problems (a lot more than Toyota) it's great to see that Toyota are addressing things. I don't understand why some people spend time to join a forum and then come out with negative comments, it doesn't help ...... it worries people who may not know a lot about cars!

By the way as you well know the 1.8vvti is a petrol engine and cannot be directly compared to the 2.2d4d, and yes I am a Toyota fan ...... that's why I joined this forum.

It sure feels like you have ..... missed the point out here

I am a taxi driver, not only have I owned toyotas from day one, I feel like the current toyota cars are infact breaking down alot quicker then the previous ones and have lots of generic faults that toyota and the dealers are happy in hiding.

lets compare the current gen Diesels to Petrols

2.2 D4D

Suffer

poor mpg / Smoke

engine oil usage

bore wear

carbon build up

head gasket faliure

1.8 VVTI

Engine oil usage

bore wear

carbon build up

head gasket faliure

My comments are not negative, but are just highlighting what the problems are, if you can not get past understanding then maybe you should not have joint the forum. me and several other people spend time out helping other forum members get to the bottom of their car problems. I can understand that all new cars have faults, and can be "fixed".

In light of all these issues, i do not intend to replace my mrk2 toyota, and when I do replace it, it will be with an accord 2.2 Diesel.

Like I said in my last posting ....no more politics from me.

On your next choice of car..... i won't argue with that, great engine but will the whole car be better than a Toyota?.... Only time will tell! Good luck with it anyway.

[Heidfirst]

and when I do replace it, it will be with an accord 2.2 Diesel.

well, supposedly Honda are stopping diesels ...

http://jalopnik.com/5200415/honda-axes-die...hybrids-instead

[OldSkoO1]

Not wishing to get intertwined in some of these debates

But from my point of view diesels ARE becoming a lot more complex and with the squeeze on emissions, not just co2 but nox and particle emissions the "green" manufacturers like toyota are tackling these emissions aggressively. This means that common rail engines are now standard with the next gen of piezo cyrstal injectors which inject fuel at extremely high pressures with VERY expensive Bosch fuel pumps. With the emissions rules tightening things like exhaust gas re-generation is becoming more common place so you get soot build ups, reduced air flow, smoking, reduced MPG and POTENTIALLY reduced reliability.

With the high pressure injection and tolerances and the re-generation diesels are a lot more complicated and i'm sceptical of how these latest range of diesel setups will fair in 60k + miles. If the taxi guys are finding problems i can see where they are coming from. I don't think it is toyota specific but more like outside influences, a lot of it emissions driven. And i think they are just pushing the boundaries.

Thing is VAG and ford do have quality issues, i.e. not being particually consistent with reliability and vauxhall, well. Let alone Renault / peugeot. So if i was a high miler like a taxi driver my money would be on a skoda octavia which run the older gen engines that have been constantly refined and have had plenty of testing.

Toyota's are still great cars, i'm waiting to see what becomes of these latest engine setups. I know that the Japanese conduct their meetings on car builds by have having everyone from the floor workers to the division directors obsessing over the smaller details like which clips to use in their electronics. You have bosses upside down in cars looking at wiring. That kind of involvement produces good cars. Its just a shame that in this day and age even the best and the biggest are being squeezed a bit and i agree it is showing. Still i have faith that toyota are sourcing the most reliant components for the needs, even if the roads they are forced down with engines and emissions are their problem, they are doing the best they can to comply.

[Beagh1958]

To buckyguilder,

All modern Diesel/Petrol cars have upgrades for ECM or ECU which ever word you choose to use. We carry them out all the time at work, maybe i am missing something here, why would you not want a remap. With respect to yourself Toyota & all other manufacturers are always at work in the background creating software to improve your cars running, in this case fuel related.

Just the same as Windows XP or Vista, you would not hesitate to download their patches or updates to improve performance of computer or to cover any security problems with above systems.

Regards, Beagh.

[buckyguilder]

To buckyguilder,

All modern Diesel/Petrol cars have upgrades for ECM or ECU which ever word you choose to use. We carry them out all the time at work, maybe i am missing something here, why would you not want a remap. With respect to yourself Toyota & all other manufacturers are always at work in the background creating software to improve your cars running, in this case fuel related.

Just the same as Windows XP or Vista, you would not hesitate to download their patches or updates to improve performance of computer or to cover any security problems with above systems.

Regards, Beagh.

thanks Beagh for your comments, I was concerned because it was such a new car end of June2008, I also thought that the only engine that had serious carbon problems was the T180, thats why I bought the T spirt. Having said all that the remap was carried out on tuesday pass, I have noticed no difference yet but it is early days. Hopefully it will improve fuel eff as at the moment its usually in the late thirties MPG.

Regards Buckyguilder

[buckyguilder]

hi, i work for a toyota dealer and iv carried out lots of re-maps. there on deisels only and the rav4 auris n avensis are affected. it basicly prevents the car from over fueling as carbon build up on these engines are becoming a problem but the upgrade prevents the carbon build.

Can you explain to me...

how a ecu reflash will stop carbon rebuilt

when the piston design of the engine maybe the actuall problem.

All I see here is toyota hiding the issue

Thanks for your reply, I had the Re-map carried out last tuesday so hopefully I shall see an increase in MPG, as i would normally be getting 38-39 mpg far from toyota figures.

Regards Buckyguilder

[Beagh1958]

To buckyguilder,

You will never beat CARBON build up in the eternal combustion engine, be it Diesel or Petrol. Due to more & more stringent emission regulations, which result in the development of more & more devices to keep emission levels down. When i started my training more years ago than i now care to remember, carrying out full decokes would have been a very common job. Most engines being cross-flows or like the old A-Series, as they are today infact, 16v heads would have been considered quite exotic & something every grubby little mechanic would be desperate to get their hands on. With a few exceptions, cars quite simply would have been easier to work on. Now with cars being much more complex, you can spend more time removing ancillories than it used to take to remove cyl/head on older vehicles. With long life servicing aswell, you are always going to have to deal with carbon build up, it just is not as easy to do this anymore & really is as simple as that i am afraid. I carried out a full cyl/head decoke on my own car during my summer vacation last year of which i had to use two full days to carry out job. Cylinder heads have not changed (16v being the norm?) radically, but the rubbish you have to remove to access them has bult up dramatically. You cannot beat CARBON full stop, you can only try to lessen the speed that it builds up in, in regards to some engines. With respect to yourself, no matter what other forum users say about TOYOTA (they may not be quite reliable as they used to be, but that's another debate?) all manufacturers have the same problems.

Regards, Beagh.

[OldSkoO1]

To buckyguilder,

You will never beat CARBON build up in the eternal combustion engine, be it Diesel or Petrol. Due to more & more stringent emission regulations, which result in the development of more & more devices to keep emission levels down. When i started my training more years ago than i now care to remember, carrying out full decokes would have been a very common job. Most engines being cross-flows or like the old A-Series, as they are today infact, 16v heads would have been considered quite exotic & something every grubby little mechanic would be desperate to get their hands on. With a few exceptions, cars quite simply would have been easier to work on. Now with cars being much more complex, you can spend more time removing ancillories than it used to take to remove cyl/head on older vehicles. With long life servicing aswell, you are always going to have to deal with carbon build up, it just is not as easy to do this anymore & really is as simple as that i am afraid. I carried out a full cyl/head decoke on my own car during my summer vacation last year of which i had to use two full days to carry out job. Cylinder heads have not changed (16v being the norm?) radically, but the rubbish you have to remove to access them has bult up dramatically. You cannot beat CARBON full stop, you can only try to lessen the speed that it builds up in, in regards to some engines. With respect to yourself, no matter what other forum users say about TOYOTA (they may not be quite reliable as they used to be, but that's another debate?) all manufacturers have the same problems.

Regards, Beagh.

Excellent post!

[buckyguilder]

Thanks to all, for your comments regarding Re-map.

Buckyguilder

[Dunky]

Hi all, my first post here.

With regards to carbon build up, I would say it's in the nature of the beast that this will occur in any internal combustion engine, whether compression or spark ignition, and whoever the manufacturer.

What I'm wondering is whether any of the premium fuels can reduce this, as the manufacturers claim?

Currently I'm running an '02 1.8 VVTi with 38k. I got this car from my brother at about 33k about 18 months ago, and have been fuelling it with only Shell V-Power. I'm getting 36mpg, calculated by myself and not using the on-board computer. Checking the oil weekly there does not seem to be any consumption. It runs well and acceleration is pretty good.

Does anyone else use Shell V-power, and have you noticed any difference?

[Copperface]

Hi all, my first post here.

With regards to carbon build up, I would say it's in the nature of the beast that this will occur in any internal combustion engine, whether compression or spark ignition, and whoever the manufacturer.

What I'm wondering is whether any of the premium fuels can reduce this, as the manufacturers claim?

Currently I'm running an '02 1.8 VVTi with 38k. I got this car from my brother at about 33k about 18 months ago, and have been fuelling it with only Shell V-Power. I'm getting 36mpg, calculated by myself and not using the on-board computer. Checking the oil weekly there does not seem to be any consumption. It runs well and acceleration is pretty good.

Does anyone else use Shell V-power, and have you noticed any difference?

I switched over to V Power about 10 tankfuls ago to see if it helped fuel consumption and I went from around 32mpg mixed conditions to around 38 mpg in a 56 plated 1.8 vvti saloon.

Certainly helped in the mpg stakes. As to anything else, haven't really noticed, but there again i don't really boot it, and motorway cruising is simply done smoothly.

The only thing I also wanted to try and eradicate was a type of lurch when changing gear into lower gears - when the clutch is engaged the engine revs fall very rapidly and when engaging the next gear it takes a bit of dabbing the accelerator to match the revs, even if done quickly and at relatively low speeds. I thought it may have been some sort of build up in the engine, but it still happens and I thought that the V power may have helped flush that out by now - obviously not. So, better mpg but noticed nothing else, but it's costlier so still none the wiser.