Engine Warning Light

[nobler]

HELP I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO - My daughter bought a secondhand 2000 Yaris in Feb 09 from Luton car dealer. It seemed fine initially but when she drove it to Wales to go to university the engine warning light came on. She took the car to a garage and they replaced both lamba sensors for £400. However within a day the warning light came back on. The car has been in and out of the garage since but the light is still on. They say the only other thing it could be is the catalitic convertor but the diagnostic checks are fine.

Also, the Luton dealer who sold us the car did so with a 3 month warranty. They knew the car would live in Wales and said if we have any problems, providing we took it to a normal garage (not an expensive Toyota dealership) they would pay the bill which is what we did. However they are refusing to pay as they say the cost is too much, they could have done it for less. So I have 2 questions.

1. Should we change the Catalitic convertor to see if this works even though it seems fine(maybe another £200).

2. Should the Luton dealer pay the bills, does he have any defense?

And just for a full picture we also had to pay £200 for new exhaust as well and the Luton dealer says the warranty dosn't cover exhausts...is that right too? All in all she paid £2100 for a V reg yaris and so far we have paid out £600 with maybe another £200 to come. All comments will be gratfully received.

Thanks, Nobler.

:(

[gar]

HELP I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO - My daughter bought a secondhand 2000 Yaris in Feb 09 from Luton car dealer. It seemed fine initially but when she drove it to Wales to go to university the engine warning light came on. She took the car to a garage and they replaced both lamba sensors for £400. However within a day the warning light came back on. The car has been in and out of the garage since but the light is still on. They say the only other thing it could be is the catalitic convertor but the diagnostic checks are fine.

Also, the Luton dealer who sold us the car did so with a 3 month warranty. They knew the car would live in Wales and said if we have any problems, providing we took it to a normal garage (not an expensive Toyota dealership) they would pay the bill which is what we did. However they are refusing to pay as they say the cost is too much, they could have done it for less. So I have 2 questions.

1. Should we change the Catalitic convertor to see if this works even though it seems fine(maybe another £200).

2. Should the Luton dealer pay the bills, does he have any defense?

And just for a full picture we also had to pay £200 for new exhaust as well and the Luton dealer says the warranty dosn't cover exhausts...is that right too? All in all she paid £2100 for a V reg yaris and so far we have paid out £600 with maybe another £200 to come. All comments will be gratfully received.

Thanks, Nobler.

:(

They may be right to say the exhaust was not warrantied but if it was MOTed and it should have failed with the old one, you could try pressuring them! Also. the sale of goods act states that an item should be fit for the intended purpose! The purpose of the car is to drive it! I would mention the sale of goods act to them and also mention trading standards offices, etc. They may "change thier minds" and cough up

[Raeman]

Hi and welcome to Yaris world. ;)

I have had dealings in the past with garages like this, if they say they won't pay, then it's unlikely they will unfortunately.

When i bought our Yaris i got a 3month warranty but when i looked at the small print it only covers up to £1000, that's for any major replacement parts and labour.

In the end i never needed the warranty as the car was fine and still is. (Touch wood)

Tyres, batteries,wipers,brake pads and exhausts are classed as "Consumables" and thus are never usually covered under warranty.

Sounds like you won't get any joy with the garage you got it from so if i was you i would take it to Toyota and have the fault diagnosed properly.

Then you will know exactly what the problem is instead of going round the world replacing everything and spending a fortune on parts the car may not need.

As for the EML light being on, what is the car like to drive?

I only ask as my Accord had a faulty 02 sensor last xmas and it drove ok, just didn't want to tick over. Honda charged £60 to have the fault diagnosed so Toyota might be similar but don't be surprised if it's a bit more.

Sounds like you've had a bad experience with your Yaris but don't let some bad service put you off, they really are good cars and very dependable.

Wash your hands of the Luton dealer, it's not worth fighting them for and getting yourself stressed out.

So as mentioned, i would take it to Toyota or an independant Jap car specialist (must be one in your area) and have it properly diagnosed then replace the offending part.

Hopefully then, your Yaris will serve you well.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[nobler]

Thanks Gar and Raeman for your comments. The car drives well, no signs of any problems. I spoke to Toyota and they want £800 for a new catalic convertor plus labour, and it may be fine. I think I will let her drive the car with the light on and see if anything goes wrong...and just try to get back the money I have spent. As I understand it, the worst that could happen is that I will need a new catalic convertor! Everyone I speak to says stick with it so we will. Thanks again :)

[nickp8]

First of all I would say £400 is over the top for the two Lambda sensors. Also highly unlikely both went at the same time and fault code would have told them which sensor had gone. Wouldnt use that garage again.

After the Lamdba sensors were replaced the check engine light was reset and stayed off only for a day. Then when it came back on were the fault codes re-read to see what fault has now occured? Did the garage show you the original fault codes the first time? The lambda sensors they put in could be faulty or the wrong type.

If the CAT had gone it would fail an emmisions test. When is the MOT due?

Get the fault codes re-read somewhere else or buy a basic fault code reader off eBay for £15.

A new cat off eBay or motorfactors is £100 - £150 so your better off getting it yourself and get a local place to fit if you decide to change it. Euroflo does replacement exhaust systems for the Yaris in 3 parts the CAT, mid section and backbox. The original Toyota exhaust only comes in two parts a combined CAT and mid section, and the backbox.

[nobler]

Hi Nickp8

Thanks for that, very interesting. Maybe the garage is more to blame than the dealer?

The print out they gave us says 'P0171 - System too lean (Bank 1)' Do you know what that means?

All the tests they have done since says 'No Trouble Code'

At one point they decided they had fitted the wrong sensors as it wasn't a Japaneese built one but a french built one so they changed them again. I asked them why then does it say made in Japan on the front windscreen, had made in japan engraved on all the windows and had a japan build chasis number. I asked them to put the other ones back when it went back in for the exhuast but I forgot to check if they did. Would this make much difference?I am getting the sense they are not up to the job.

[nobler]

Oh, they did a years MOTwhen we bought it in Feb09.

[zakelwe]

I would have not bothered replaced the lambda sensors and saved £400. Just ask them to reset it.

I bought a V reg Yaris when new and after 25 000 miles the engine warning light came on. As it drove Ok and it was a Toyota I just left it. Then at the next service they reset it. After 3 hours it came back on. I left it another 10 000 miles and they reset it again, it came back on just after the garage went out of view.

This happened for the rest of the life of the car, it finally got written off by a van with 100 000 miles on the clock, so the engine warning light was on for 75 000 miles or so, or 3 times around the world. Probably a world record.....

Imagine now what you could be spending that £400 on if you had not wasted it , beer hookers and music that's what

Don't get a catalytic converter, just drive it with it on. That's my advice anyway. It's probably some bad connection they will never fix. You might get a catalytic converter and then it is still on!

Good luck anyway.

Regards

Andy

[nickp8]

Quick search shows p0171 seems to be a common fault code on Toyotas and can be caused by a dirty MAF - mass air flow sensor. Try giving it a good clean. See post #34 on thread below:

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.p...=9206&st=25

[gar]

I would have not bothered replaced the lambda sensors and saved £400. Just ask them to reset it.

I bought a V reg Yaris when new and after 25 000 miles the engine warning light came on. As it drove Ok and it was a Toyota I just left it. Then at the next service they reset it. After 3 hours it came back on. I left it another 10 000 miles and they reset it again, it came back on just after the garage went out of view.

This happened for the rest of the life of the car, it finally got written off by a van with 100 000 miles on the clock, so the engine warning light was on for 75 000 miles or so, or 3 times around the world. Probably a world record.....

Imagine now what you could be spending that £400 on if you had not wasted it , beer hookers and music that's what

Beer, hookers and music.... You call that wasted? VFM< I recon!!!!

Don't get a catalytic converter, just drive it with it on. That's my advice anyway. It's probably some bad connection they will never fix. You might get a catalytic converter and then it is still on!

Good luck anyway.

Regards

Andy

[Kcs]

HELP I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO - My daughter bought a secondhand 2000 Yaris in Feb 09 from Luton car dealer. It seemed fine initially but when she drove it to Wales to go to university the engine warning light came on. She took the car to a garage and they replaced both lamba sensors for £400. However within a day the warning light came back on. The car has been in and out of the garage since but the light is still on. They say the only other thing it could be is the catalitic convertor but the diagnostic checks are fine.

Also, the Luton dealer who sold us the car did so with a 3 month warranty. They knew the car would live in Wales and said if we have any problems, providing we took it to a normal garage (not an expensive Toyota dealership) they would pay the bill which is what we did. However they are refusing to pay as they say the cost is too much, they could have done it for less. So I have 2 questions.

1. Should we change the Catalitic convertor to see if this works even though it seems fine(maybe another £200).

2. Should the Luton dealer pay the bills, does he have any defense?

And just for a full picture we also had to pay £200 for new exhaust as well and the Luton dealer says the warranty dosn't cover exhausts...is that right too? All in all she paid £2100 for a V reg yaris and so far we have paid out £600 with maybe another £200 to come. All comments will be gratfully received.

Thanks, Nobler.

:(

Hi, i have a x reg 1.0 yaris that likes to flash the EML light from time to time, it normally comes on after you set of with the

car running on choke, the light on mine go's out after a day or two by itsself ! even with the light on, it runs perfect ! the code

you have ( po171 ) is the same code i found stored using my Dads code reader, i think after reading many post on this subject,

the sensors are very very sensitive ie; too much unburnt fuel going into the Cat gives you the EML light. Also the idle on mine is

quite low, i have cleaned the idle valve but has not really made much difference ! I would not spend a penny more if i was you,

if it runs ok leave it alone ! i still get 400 miles + out of a full tank, so the engine is still running to a good standard efficiency !

Hope this helps

Kcs

[Cherry Red Pocket Rocket]

They said that they would handle the costs. If they still refuse to cover the costs to put it right then contact the Fair Trading Standards Agency and they should be able to sort things out for you.

[TOYOTEC gatwick]

Hi Nickp8

Thanks for that, very interesting. Maybe the garage is more to blame than the dealer?

The print out they gave us says 'P0171 - System too lean (Bank 1)' Do you know what that means?

All the tests they have done since says 'No Trouble Code'

At one point they decided they had fitted the wrong sensors as it wasn't a Japaneese built one but a french built one so they changed them again. I asked them why then does it say made in Japan on the front windscreen, had made in japan engraved on all the windows and had a japan build chasis number. I asked them to put the other ones back when it went back in for the exhuast but I forgot to check if they did. Would this make much difference?I am getting the sense they are not up to the job.

Hi nobler

Diagnostic trouble code P0171 on Yaris is normaly recorded due to debris around one of the air flow meter elements. Toyota have modified the air flow meters to combat this issue. Please note after replacing the air flow meter, the Battery will need to be disconnected in order to clear down & reset the ECU's learnt values. (A new air flow meter is about £80.00 plus VAT).

[alfiejts]

Yes - P1071 is usually a dirty or faulty MAF sensor. I got that in my 7-year old Yaris. I followed the guides on theis forum and cleaned the sensor and it was fine for the next two years until we sold the car.

It sounds like the garage didn;t doa lot of research to identify the fault code and work out what bit was at fault - they've just started swapping bits to see what might clear the fault light.

I suspect you're going to have to put this down to a bad experience, but I think the real issue is that the garage who tried to fix it have replaced some parts unnecessarily.....