Gen7 190

[adamgGTI]

hi all i know the gen 7 190 is 190 bhp but wot is the bhp before it hits the lift?

[Felfy]

Hi adamgGTI

It's a 'normal' 140 bhp engine before it hits lift at approx 6,250 rpm

Then it's a full & fast 190 bhp

Hope this helps

Best Wishes

Felfy

[The Red Man]

That's my main gripe, they are no more powerfull than a medium sized family saloon most of the time.

[GT4 BOOSTER]

like my derv passat 130 bhp standard . 49 mpg :-)

[adamgGTI]

tanku peeps. so it gains 50 brake from altering the valve timing!

[Scarlett Arrow]

Only on paper, take a VVTL-i on a rolling road and it's more likely to be ITRO 175 at the Fly.

[Black Knight]

Adam, it gains the 50bhp from the lift system rather than the timing side (VVTL = Variable Valve Timing and Lift)

Scarlett, honestly speaking that only goes to prove how inaccurate rolling roads are. Too many assumptions have to be made to calculate an accurate performance at the flywheel. It's also dependant on the age of the vehicle as it wears in/out. Finally manufacturers have to be able to prove declared performance and that vehicles meet legislation. This is done through the homologation process. The only way to get an accurate reading is to lift the engine out of the chassis and mount on a engine dyno rather than chassis dyno.

[The Red Man]

Booster - Your derv would leave me sat in a cloud of black smoke lol

[GT4 BOOSTER]

Booster - Your derv would leave me sat in a cloud of black smoke lol

it will when i engage my eBay tuning chip . 170 bhp @ over 300 nm of torque.

[Turk]

So basically this car is slow until you get to 6000rpm, then you only have 1500rpm to play with it?

Am I guessing right?

[Ryanzo]

I wouldnt say its slow but its not super quick either

[GT Driver]

I wouldnt say its slow but its not super quick either

I'm curious: what is the fuel economy like on these 190s?

I was just wondering why this engine wasn't just turbo charged instead of having lift. What i'm getting at i spose is; Surely a turbo would have offered additional performance earlier on in the rev range for comparable fuel economy.

Not sure on this one though, does anyone know any better?

[Ryanzo]

The fuel aconomy is basically the same unless you hammer it up through the lift, it would use more fuel if it had've been a turboed 140 engine although it be pushing 200+ bhp, it would've been worth it tho

[Turk]

So is there any way to adjust the lift so that it comes in at say 4000rpm?

[GT Driver]

So is there any way to adjust the lift so that it comes in at say 4000rpm?

Probably BUT i dont think the performance offered by the lift cam profile would be very good at those revs.

[Turk]

Probably BUT i dont think the performance offered by the lift cam profile would be very good at those revs.

So what do they actually redline at then? It just seems quite poor performance given the past Celica models. If the lift kicks in at 6250 and you redline at 7500 then you get less than 1500 rpm with the extra 50bhp.

I don't get the point

[farhanali89]

Right let me finish this odd discussion off!

Before lift around 140ish brake

Lift kicks in at 6200 and lift ends at 8200.

This is a high revving engine.

Now the idea is when you step on the throttle and work your way through gears the close transmission keeps you in the lift barrier when you throttle it through gears. Meaning if you are on a run you are working through lift.

The power from lift is actually a very strong pull, its like a turbo boost, it may be short but it does make up alot of ground. It can be altered slightly lower but will cost. Its better to adjust the vvti (before lift) and remove dips in the power band. so you torque curve is smoother and you have a better transition into lift.

[Turk]

Thanks for the explanation.

[blackcts]

Booster - Your derv would leave me sat in a cloud of black smoke lol

it will when i engage my eBay tuning chip . 170 bhp @ over 300 nm of torque.

My mates remapped 130 Passat got beat by a Celica 140 :P The Passat felt far, far quicker though due to all those torques

A 190 Celica would still be much quicker, especially off the lights, the Celica does near enough 40mph in 1st gear, whereas the derv needs an extra gear change to get to that speed and you really dont want to do too many harsh starts on a TDi with its dual mass flywheel.

Still hard to beat the 130 Passats as an all rounder though.

[farhanali89]

The Biggest problem with all that torque is trying to stop wheel spin on a stop start. One thing i have noticed with all diesels is wheel spinning off the line. Also regardless of torque its great out of the bends and cutting in and out quickly in a day to day situation as the power is there throughout the rev range. Using a high lift engine is a bit more tricky as straight line power is an advantage as you have it all on the top end which suprises people without the need for blowers. As for using it when pulling out of a bend or cutting in and out of corners you have to keep it near the top end power band which is sometimes hard, Thats were diesels have an advanted. Put a straight strip between the two and a 190 celica will pull out first as it has a much stronger top end.

I thought a 530d and i were a good match until i kept getting beaten on rolling starts. The torque would just allow him to pull, I wondered about power to weight etc but his torque was so much more stronger allowing him to just gain on me from rolling off. When we went for a quater mile standing start it was neck on neck.

Reason?? The stronger mid range torque allowed the derv to pull better on rolling starts, I would hold it near lift but as i would then need to change gear quicker to match his pull away from all the extra torque he has i would lose time because i needed to change gear more often.

On the standing starts it was harder for him to put power down in the derv but i also know that our first gear is very strong outside of lift and just pulls us straight in, after that its just keeping it in lift so you stay equal but make up that ground in first as you can use 1st gear to get you that starting pull you need to stay neck and neck.

[Turk]

Jesus, racing in one of these must destroy your fuel economy! :D

[farhanali89]

Fuel is actually really good for the performance mind you, 15 quid would get you a whole nights worth of lift!!

[blackcts]

What model of 530d are you talking about? standard/remapped.

[ballist1x]

the standard 530 is pretty fast i mean, the 214bhp version is 0-60 in 6.9..and the 227 bhp version is 6.6...sure the corolla is a lighter car...but it doesnt have a 3litre turbo derv under the hood!

get a tuned 2zz with lowered lift,

[sooty22]

hey im new to this forum, have been having a read about the celica as thats what im planning to get next... this thread is quite inteeresting as i currently have a seat biza mk 4 but is running 230 bhp and 384lbft of tarque:) i know the toyota il not be as wild but its time for a change of car, i love the celice gt the gen 7 but i cant find one anywhere... are the t-sport also 190? cheers guys....