I Love My New Prius But I Have One Or Two Questions

[mrmalaya]

hello. I just love how quiet and smooth it is and I really appreciate the premium sound system.

now, I read in the hand book that i should be getting title information and track information off of my CDs, and I'm not. How do i get this? I'm using proper cds.

could someone also go through this whole stage 1,2,3,4 business for me please? I appreciate the hybrid system is a complex beast if you want to get the most out of it from a fuel consumption point of view. Havin said that I am confident that I'm going to averageat least 60mpg out of my first full tank.

any help would be great please

[timberwolf]

hello. I just love how quiet and smooth it is and I really appreciate the premium sound system.

now, I read in the hand book that i should be getting title information and track information off of my CDs, and I'm not. How do i get this? I'm using proper cds.

With bought Audio CDs, only those with a Text session will display track and title information, apparently very few CDs do have this extra session.

From what I can remember (as I'm usually too busy looking out the window or watching the speedometer), the title and track information is only displayed when the car is stopped. When on the move, or at least when changing tracks from the steering wheel control, the MFD does not display track and title - just the CD and Track numbers.

Personally, I do not use original Audio CDs in my car, just in case the CD gets damaged and the label has probably withdrawn the CD if I wanted to buy another copy. A bit sad I guess, but I've only got one CD in the car at the moment, but it is a data CD-RW containing 17 folders with MP3 files encoded at 112 kbps, the equivalent of 17 albums. Now that you've reminded me, I should create a few more CDs.

could someone also go through this whole stage 1,2,3,4 business for me please? I appreciate the hybrid system is a complex beast if you want to get the most out of it from a fuel consumption point of view. Havin said that I am confident that I'm going to averageat least 60mpg out of my first full tank.

any help would be great please

I think you would need a device, such as the ScanGauge II, to be able to observe and understand the various Stages and match that to the various writes up that other enthuisiasts (spelling?) have written, as engine temperature, engine RPM are not displayed on the Prius' instruments. I've been um'ing and arr'ing over getting an SGII, but I can't really decide whether to get one or where to buy it from.

[GreenJuice]

could someone also go through this whole stage 1,2,3,4 business for me please? ... Havin said that I am confident that I'm going to averageat least 60mpg out of my first full tank.

any help would be great please

I think you would need a device, such as the ScanGauge II, to be able to observe and understand the various Stages and match that to the various writes up that other enthuisiasts (spelling?) have written, as engine temperature, engine RPM are not displayed on the Prius' instruments. I've been um'ing and arr'ing over getting an SGII, but I can't really decide whether to get one or where to buy it from.

The Prius has evolved over the years and ought to give you comparably excellent mileage even without needing to know nitty gritty of how its programmed. Exploring some of the enthusiast websites like priuschat.com and cleanmpg.com might make you lust for more, but remember that 60 mpg is already a pretty respectable figure! Many would suggest just driving and enjoying it.

If you get a kick out of pushing the mileage envelope, however, then BEWARE! This can be addictive and sad people like me can spend hours researching this topic! I would start by saying that mileage is mainly a reflection of how you drive. In turn, that is determined by your journeys, road conditions, traffic, etc. - things which will be unique to yourself. You will find that the factors that mostly affect Prius fuel economy are short trips (few miles or under 20 mins), cold weather, frequent start/stop urban conditions as well as high speeds on the motorway (particularly over 70 mph - yes, really!).

Understanding the warmup Stages you mentioned really comes into its own for those short urban situations. Yesterday I did a total of 42 miles in 7 seperate journeys through central London, start/stop traffic, average speed 12 mph - nightmare! But I got a smile back when I saw the average mileage for the whole day was 61 mpg. (SGII can also report that I used 3.11 L of petrol, costing £2.92!). You can do almost everything without something like ScanGauge. Having one just accelerates the learning, and for me its come round full circle and taught me how to drive!

You may have noticed a recent thread on this site, 'Petrol Engine Keeps Runnning...' where timberwolf posted a link to http://www.techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/five-stages.txt which many use as a key reference. It is complex and I still have to go back and read it again from time to time. I'll try and summarise briefly:

Prius Engine Warmup Stages from cold:

Stage 1: A relatively short phase typically lasting just a minute or so. Engine is forced to remain on continuously (until it hits 40C) no matter what you do. EV button can't be used.

Stage 2: From this point on, your EV button can be used (as always, under 29 mph). Fuel consumption will be shut off as soon as you lift your foot off the accelerator, unless there something else demanding power (e.g. cabin warming, cooling, fan, etc.)

Stage 3a & 3b: These are peculiar and illogical intermediate stages. Engine has reached an optimal temperature (70C), but occasionally still keeps running after you lift your foot off the accelerator. This wasteful behaviour ends as soon as you come to a complete stop for 5 - 10 seconds, whereupon you enter Stage 4.

Stage 4: Fully warmed and optimised, this is the most fuel efficient Stage. Fuel consumption will be shut off as you lift your foot off the accelerator, even if there is something else demanding power.

The behaviour in these Stages is also modified by your Battery charge level, with a greater tendency to run the engine when charge is low.

In ideal driving conditions you could get to Stage 4 about 5 - 7 minutes after setting off. In many urban situations, start/stop, short trips, I never get to Stage 4 even after more than 30 mins! Because Stage 2 is very similar to Stage 4 I used to think the car 'must' be warmed up until I started monitoring with SGII. Nevertheles, you can still optimise you fuel consumption by simple rules: Ignore Stage 1 (as its short and you can't do anything about it). Minimise 'cabin comfort' demands until Stage 4. As soon as you notice the engine running with you foot off (S3a or 3b), aim to come to a stop as soon as convenient and hold it long enough to let it go into S4.

ScanGauge II costs over £125 and it will take a very long time to reclaim its cost from fuel savings. It was worth it for me because I attached other values to having one. I bought mine last year from http://www.scangauge2.co.uk/ who are actually based in Greece. The exchange rate was more favourable then. They were very professional and true to their word. It arrived in good order in days. I also note that there is a UK supplier that may be cheaper at this time UKOBD Ltd

The simple plug in installation takes seconds. Your OBDII connector is under your steering wheel - white plastic, looks like a SCART shape. It comes with plenty of cable to tuck away. I have mine mounted with velcro to the right of the steering wheel - there's a part where the dash is slightly angled allowing the SGII face to tilt up at you. I plan to disconnect it when it goes for service.

For me, its been so captivating my wife thinks I'm having an affair - which reminds me, its time I log off.....!

Enjoy!

[mrmalaya]

Hi, and thanks for all your help.

Like I said, I am very happy with this car and I can understand how it could be captivating. If I can return this sort of mpg with very mixed driving and with climate control on, then I dont reckon I can ask for more.

Thanks too for taking the time to write such a detailed explanation of the warmup stages. things might start to make a bit more sense now and it really can't hurt to understand why such a complex system if doing what it does. :D

could someone also go through this whole stage 1,2,3,4 business for me please? ... Havin said that I am confident that I'm going to averageat least 60mpg out of my first full tank.

any help would be great please

I think you would need a device, such as the ScanGauge II, to be able to observe and understand the various Stages and match that to the various writes up that other enthuisiasts (spelling?) have written, as engine temperature, engine RPM are not displayed on the Prius' instruments. I've been um'ing and arr'ing over getting an SGII, but I can't really decide whether to get one or where to buy it from.

The Prius has evolved over the years and ought to give you comparably excellent mileage even without needing to know nitty gritty of how its programmed. Exploring some of the enthusiast websites like priuschat.com and cleanmpg.com might make you lust for more, but remember that 60 mpg is already a pretty respectable figure! Many would suggest just driving and enjoying it.

If you get a kick out of pushing the mileage envelope, however, then BEWARE! This can be addictive and sad people like me can spend hours researching this topic! I would start by saying that mileage is mainly a reflection of how you drive. In turn, that is determined by your journeys, road conditions, traffic, etc. - things which will be unique to yourself. You will find that the factors that mostly affect Prius fuel economy are short trips (few miles or under 20 mins), cold weather, frequent start/stop urban conditions as well as high speeds on the motorway (particularly over 70 mph - yes, really!).

Understanding the warmup Stages you mentioned really comes into its own for those short urban situations. Yesterday I did a total of 42 miles in 7 seperate journeys through central London, start/stop traffic, average speed 12 mph - nightmare! But I got a smile back when I saw the average mileage for the whole day was 61 mpg. (SGII can also report that I used 3.11 L of petrol, costing £2.92!). You can do almost everything without something like ScanGauge. Having one just accelerates the learning, and for me its come round full circle and taught me how to drive!

You may have noticed a recent thread on this site, 'Petrol Engine Keeps Runnning...' where timberwolf posted a link to http://www.techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/five-stages.txt which many use as a key reference. It is complex and I still have to go back and read it again from time to time. I'll try and summarise briefly:

Prius Engine Warmup Stages from cold:

Stage 1: A relatively short phase typically lasting just a minute or so. Engine is forced to remain on continuously (until it hits 40C) no matter what you do. EV button can't be used.

Stage 2: From this point on, your EV button can be used (as always, under 29 mph). Fuel consumption will be shut off as soon as you lift your foot off the accelerator, unless there something else demanding power (e.g. cabin warming, cooling, fan, etc.)

Stage 3a & 3b: These are peculiar and illogical intermediate stages. Engine has reached an optimal temperature (70C), but occasionally still keeps running after you lift your foot off the accelerator. This wasteful behaviour ends as soon as you come to a complete stop for 5 - 10 seconds, whereupon you enter Stage 4.

Stage 4: Fully warmed and optimised, this is the most fuel efficient Stage. Fuel consumption will be shut off as you lift your foot off the accelerator, even if there is something else demanding power.

The behaviour in these Stages is also modified by your Battery charge level, with a greater tendency to run the engine when charge is low.

In ideal driving conditions you could get to Stage 4 about 5 - 7 minutes after setting off. In many urban situations, start/stop, short trips, I never get to Stage 4 even after more than 30 mins! Because Stage 2 is very similar to Stage 4 I used to think the car 'must' be warmed up until I started monitoring with SGII. Nevertheles, you can still optimise you fuel consumption by simple rules: Ignore Stage 1 (as its short and you can't do anything about it). Minimise 'cabin comfort' demands until Stage 4. As soon as you notice the engine running with you foot off (S3a or 3b), aim to come to a stop as soon as convenient and hold it long enough to let it go into S4.

ScanGauge II costs over £125 and it will take a very long time to reclaim its cost from fuel savings. It was worth it for me because I attached other values to having one. I bought mine last year from http://www.scangauge2.co.uk/ who are actually based in Greece. The exchange rate was more favourable then. They were very professional and true to their word. It arrived in good order in days. I also note that there is a UK supplier that may be cheaper at this time UKOBD Ltd

The simple plug in installation takes seconds. Your OBDII connector is under your steering wheel - white plastic, looks like a SCART shape. It comes with plenty of cable to tuck away. I have mine mounted with velcro to the right of the steering wheel - there's a part where the dash is slightly angled allowing the SGII face to tilt up at you. I plan to disconnect it when it goes for service.

For me, its been so captivating my wife thinks I'm having an affair - which reminds me, its time I log off.....!

Enjoy!

[timberwolf]

Thank you for the Stages summary, nicely done.

<snip>

Understanding the warmup Stages you mentioned really comes into its own for those short urban situations. Yesterday I did a total of 42 miles in 7 seperate journeys through central London, start/stop traffic, average speed 12 mph - nightmare! But I got a smile back when I saw the average mileage for the whole day was 61 mpg. (SGII can also report that I used 3.11 L of petrol, costing £2.92!). You can do almost everything without something like ScanGauge. Having one just accelerates the learning, and for me its come round full circle and taught me how to drive!

I'd read somewhere that the SGII only displays US gallons or Litres, is that correct? And is that the reason why you are monitoring consumption in Litres?

I think 60 or 61mpg is excellent, I think I am getting 53mpg, which is better than the 35mpg that my last car did. I mainly do short trips of approximately 7 miles each way, and there are some steepish hills, so I'm probably doing okay and that is just with me driving non-agressively most of the time.

ScanGauge II costs over £125 and it will take a very long time to reclaim its cost from fuel savings. It was worth it for me because I attached other values to having one. I bought mine last year from http://www.scangauge2.co.uk/ who are actually based in Greece. The exchange rate was more favourable then. They were very professional and true to their word. It arrived in good order in days. I also note that there is a UK supplier that may be cheaper at this time UKOBD Ltd

For me it was mainly about whether I'd enjoy playing with a new toy, and not being too distracted whilst driving. A few things that I am still pondering:

The extra time needed to hide the gadget away so as not to attract thieves.

That it is a separate gadget sliding about in the cabin.

The foot well is already confined, I wonder about having a loose cable down there (and would prefer a non permanent installation in case Mr Toyota mechanic takes exception to a customer add-on).

[timberwolf]

I'd read somewhere that the SGII only displays US gallons or Litres, is that correct? And is that the reason why you are monitoring consumption in Litres?

To answer part of one of my own questions, one of the SGII FAQs states that the SGII can be calibrated (don't know how) to Imperial Gallons.

The UKOBD web-site has lots of links that give errors

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80040e4d' 

and I am wary of companies that don't keep things well maintained.

[GreenJuice]

I'd read somewhere that the SGII only displays US gallons or Litres, is that correct? And is that the reason why you are monitoring consumption in Litres?

For me it was mainly about whether I'd enjoy playing with a new toy, and not being too distracted whilst driving. A few things that I am still pondering:

The extra time needed to hide the gadget away so as not to attract thieves.

That it is a separate gadget sliding about in the cabin.

The foot well is already confined, I wonder about having a loose cable down there (and would prefer a non permanent installation in case Mr Toyota mechanic takes exception to a customer add-on).

For more information, you can also download a pdf of the SGII manual from: http://www.scangauge.com/support/pdfs/SGIIManual.pdf

You have a choice of only have one unit measure of volume, gallons or litres, and there is a calibration step later. I chose litres as its easier to use this information directly at the petrol pump. The downside is that I have to convert mpL to mpg to get a fuel consumption unit I can understand (it doesn't take long to get used to multiplying by 4.5)! The slight upside is that the other information SGII reports, like number of litres left in tank, matches more closely with what you are used to at the pump.

My unit is connected all the time. Being in London I'm always wary of opportunistic theft, but the unit is discreet and not really showy and I'm hoping that most potential thieves will not see much black market retail value in stealing one. Its held by the velcro strips provided, so no sliding around. The cable is easily tucked away behind the rubber door seals and with a cable-tie. Alternatively, it connects to the unit by an ethernet socket, so you could just disconnect and hide. It takes minutes to setup and remove, and I plan to take it out before my next service (I'm sure Mr Toyota will be needing to use the OBDII socket!).

I'm beginning to sound like an SGII salesman - I'm not!

However, on your point about 'new toy' and being distracted - extremely likely (although you could hit the Home button anytime to switch it off) - you have been warned!!

[timberwolf]

Noooo, you are not supposed to tell me it could be a distraction. :P

Thanks for the info, I'm off to download the manual.