Possible Burnt Out Clutch?

[rambler]

hi folks

i was recently in lake district,driving on wrynose & hardnott pass,this stretch of rd is very remote,very steep (1 in 3) with tight hairpin bends zig,zagging uphill.

i had to do a hill start on one section of it after stopping to let another vehicle past,but it required a fair few revs just to pull away.

but upon doing so i saw blue ish smoke appear from either side of the front of the rav,a very very pungent burning smell,and clutch pedal felt very strange.....it pulled away..just. and with a *****!

i drove back to essex,last weekend hopeing clutch would last out the journey.....it did

it still feels a little light,judders fractionally when cold.

now i was told ages ago by local dealers that clutch is hydraulic,self adjusting....what does this mean?

after this episode on holiday ,i am worried a bit about taking my rav off road,as when green laning i do use clutch control to 'edge' it through tricky sections,when following others.as we have no low range

it now bites farely near the top of pedal travel,i would say within about an 2 inches of top.,clutch IS covered on my guarantee according to paperwork.

i have had same burning smell before,but not as much as at this time.

what do you reckon? :(

[anchorman]

hi folks

i was recently in lake district,driving on wrynose & hardnott pass,this stretch of rd is very remote,very steep (1 in 3) with tight hairpin bends zig,zagging uphill.

i had to do a hill start on one section of it after stopping to let another vehicle past,but it required a fair few revs just to pull away.

but upon doing so i saw blue ish smoke appear from either side of the front of the rav,a very very pungent burning smell,and clutch pedal felt very strange.....it pulled away..just. and with a *****!

i drove back to essex,last weekend hopeing clutch would last out the journey.....it did

it still feels a little light,judders fractionally when cold.

now i was told ages ago by local dealers that clutch is hydraulic,self adjusting....what does this mean?

after this episode on holiday ,i am worried a bit about taking my rav off road,as when green laning i do use clutch control to 'edge' it through tricky sections,when following others.as we have no low range

it now bites farely near the top of pedal travel,i would say within about an 2 inches of top.,clutch IS covered on my guarantee according to paperwork.

i have had same burning smell before,but not as much as at this time.

what do you reckon? :(

What are you like Rambler??? Green laning with a RAV!!!

;)

The RAV clutch is asbestos free with a woven reinforcing system and as reported many times they can and do emit quite a lot of smoke and smell when they are slipped. The common one is reversing a caravan or trailer up hill where the load and the slipping is high. The smell is the resin system that binds the clutch material breaking down under temperature and during this time it can increase the wear quite significantly. Often after cooling the friction is increased (excited by temperature) and it leaves the clutch a little bit juddery and fierce. When the clutch is slipping in this way it gives off quite a lot of that black dust that you see on your alloys from the brake pads. It is normal wear debris but because you have cooked it it stinks like burning resin (because that is what it is!).

It is normal for the clutch pedal to rise as the drive plate wears. This is because the pressure plate springs have further to travel and eventually the pedal will come all the way to the top and the clutch will slip all the time indicating renewal is necessary.

There are several things to consider here;

The clutch is a normal wearing part and just as your pads are disappearing so is the friction material on the drive plate.

You will increase the rate of wear exponentially with temperature so you might double it by raising the temp from 100 to 200 deg C but quadruple it by raising it to 300 deg C.

During this time it will make lots of smoke and smell as the resin burns and the fillers are exposed to wear.

Even after the clutch has cooled the dust will stink of burning just as a burnt log will smell after it has cooled. It is normal and will eventually subside.

You can limit the amount of wear by controlling the amount of slip. If you let the clutch out on a flat road with the engine at idle note the speed, this is the slowest you can go under normal conditions with the clutch fully engaged. Now you can practice engaging the clutch without revving the engine. If you are off road and the vehicle needs more power you can still learn to use very little revs rather than slip. It is a balance between listening to the engine and operating the clutch to lay on more power but keep the revs low and in fact the peak power is right from tickover to about 1500/2000 rpm so you will be using the accelerator to control the speed of the vehicle at walking pace but with your foot off the clutch. Practice on a good road and then work towards steep inclines. You will find that you can start on very steep inclines at not much more than tickover speed and then keep the vehicle moving at very slow speed as well.

The fact that it is wearing and coming up is inevitable but you can slow the remaining wear down by controlling the slip.

If it does start to slip then you will have to have it changed. The info you have is correct. It is a self adjusting hydraulic clutch. It means there is no cable which might need incremental adjustment at various stages of the clutch life to maintain the pedal stroke/clearance. The hydraulic cylinder will maintain the correct settings for the life of the clutch.

In any case warranties to not cover clutches for normal wear. You are on your own with this one. All you can do is mitigate any further wear.

Finally - don't worry! What you did and how it smells does not mean it is done for! It will settle down with time and may last a very long time as long as you get a grip on that clutch slipping. If you want to use your RAV for off roading that is fine but you will have to accept that by design it is a soft roader and you are going to have to compromise. Not having a low box means you have no alternative to either try and get those revs down or expect more wear. It may cost you more clutch wear than "normal" use but you are doing what you want to do and that is the price. Look on the bright side. When you get on the motorway you can keep up with the traffic and feel relaxed after a long journey where the ones that have LRs and do better off road need hospital treatment after doing more than 47mph for more than an hour.

Enjoy mate!

[bothwell_buyer]

buy an old landrover. I did.

it smells awful all the time and costs a fortune getting clothes dry-cleaned.

But the clutches are dirt cheap.

[three5]

buy an old landrover. I did.

it smells awful all the time and costs a fortune getting clothes dry-cleaned.

But the clutches are dirt cheap.

Aye! - changing them is fun as well. You need to wear a truss when moving the gearbox back.

[rambler]

hi folks

i was recently in lake district,driving on wrynose & hardnott pass,this stretch of rd is very remote,very steep (1 in 3) with tight hairpin bends zig,zagging uphill.

i had to do a hill start on one section of it after stopping to let another vehicle past,but it required a fair few revs just to pull away.

but upon doing so i saw blue ish smoke appear from either side of the front of the rav,a very very pungent burning smell,and clutch pedal felt very strange.....it pulled away..just. and with a *****!

i drove back to essex,last weekend hopeing clutch would last out the journey.....it did

it still feels a little light,judders fractionally when cold.

now i was told ages ago by local dealers that clutch is hydraulic,self adjusting....what does this mean?

after this episode on holiday ,i am worried a bit about taking my rav off road,as when green laning i do use clutch control to 'edge' it through tricky sections,when following others.as we have no low range

it now bites farely near the top of pedal travel,i would say within about an 2 inches of top.,clutch IS covered on my guarantee according to paperwork.

i have had same burning smell before,but not as much as at this time.

what do you reckon? :(

What are you like Rambler??? Green laning with a RAV!!!

;)

The RAV clutch is asbestos free with a woven reinforcing system and as reported many times they can and do emit quite a lot of smoke and smell when they are slipped. The common one is reversing a caravan or trailer up hill where the load and the slipping is high. The smell is the resin system that binds the clutch material breaking down under temperature and during this time it can increase the wear quite significantly. Often after cooling the friction is increased (excited by temperature) and it leaves the clutch a little bit juddery and fierce. When the clutch is slipping in this way it gives off quite a lot of that black dust that you see on your alloys from the brake pads. It is normal wear debris but because you have cooked it it stinks like burning resin (because that is what it is!).

It is normal for the clutch pedal to rise as the drive plate wears. This is because the pressure plate springs have further to travel and eventually the pedal will come all the way to the top and the clutch will slip all the time indicating renewal is necessary.

There are several things to consider here;

The clutch is a normal wearing part and just as your pads are disappearing so is the friction material on the drive plate.

You will increase the rate of wear exponentially with temperature so you might double it by raising the temp from 100 to 200 deg C but quadruple it by raising it to 300 deg C.

During this time it will make lots of smoke and smell as the resin burns and the fillers are exposed to wear.

Even after the clutch has cooled the dust will stink of burning just as a burnt log will smell after it has cooled. It is normal and will eventually subside.

You can limit the amount of wear by controlling the amount of slip. If you let the clutch out on a flat road with the engine at idle note the speed, this is the slowest you can go under normal conditions with the clutch fully engaged. Now you can practice engaging the clutch without revving the engine. If you are off road and the vehicle needs more power you can still learn to use very little revs rather than slip. It is a balance between listening to the engine and operating the clutch to lay on more power but keep the revs low and in fact the peak power is right from tickover to about 1500/2000 rpm so you will be using the accelerator to control the speed of the vehicle at walking pace but with your foot off the clutch. Practice on a good road and then work towards steep inclines. You will find that you can start on very steep inclines at not much more than tickover speed and then keep the vehicle moving at very slow speed as well.

The fact that it is wearing and coming up is inevitable but you can slow the remaining wear down by controlling the slip.

If it does start to slip then you will have to have it changed. The info you have is correct. It is a self adjusting hydraulic clutch. It means there is no cable which might need incremental adjustment at various stages of the clutch life to maintain the pedal stroke/clearance. The hydraulic cylinder will maintain the correct settings for the life of the clutch.

In any case warranties to not cover clutches for normal wear. You are on your own with this one. All you can do is mitigate any further wear.

Finally - don't worry! What you did and how it smells does not mean it is done for! It will settle down with time and may last a very long time as long as you get a grip on that clutch slipping. If you want to use your RAV for off roading that is fine but you will have to accept that by design it is a soft roader and you are going to have to compromise. Not having a low box means you have no alternative to either try and get those revs down or expect more wear. It may cost you more clutch wear than "normal" use but you are doing what you want to do and that is the price. Look on the bright side. When you get on the motorway you can keep up with the traffic and feel relaxed after a long journey where the ones that have LRs and do better off road need hospital treatment after doing more than 47mph for more than an hour.

Enjoy mate!

hi anchorman

wow!!!...again,so much info........thank you

re: clutch slipping,i do as little as that as i can,i work in colchester town,and rush hour is bumper to bumper all the time,but i keep a good cars gap between me and car in front....,and let rav trickle along in 1st gear on tickover,only ever dipping clutch if i have to.

even on steep slopes if queueing rav will pull in 1st on idle....i let it,as you say ,saves riding the clutch.but do worry if its doing damage to engine forcing it up steep inclines on tick over(engine slightly labouring)?

often suprises me just how much a incline it will pull up,sometimes its a joy to test it to see how it does climb on idle.

i do green laning around the suffolk ,essex area with freinds who have a jimney,freelander & hilux,im normally in middle of them (in case i get stuck),we have been through some tricky lanes ,but i use waffle boards a fair bit to bridge ruts etc,its hard work, makes a change from 'walking' or 'rambling' which is my real passion.

i have considered getting a land cruiser colorado 3 dr recently,as much more up to the job,but worried about buying a vehicle say from a 'p' reg to a 'w' reg for about 5k,with probably more than 100,000 miles on clock,being a reliable vehicle? ( i know toyotas are) but this would replace the rav and again be for everyday use inc driving the lanes.it cannot let me down.....and rav never has

plus tax is expensive and running costs,and i am currently on 'redundancy consultation notice' at work until end may

and rav is paid for!!

my dad always said to me before he died in 1999 ,always go forwards & newer with cars,never go backwards

and as you say rav is a lovely motorway cruiser,at 80ish ,sails along nicely....wouldnt want to do that in a defender 90 or of course a suzuki jimney,(tried it...horrendous!!!!)

[anchorman]

I think Land Cruisers are pretty well bomb proof but you might get it wedged up a narrow lane!

[rambler]

I think Land Cruisers are pretty well bomb proof but you might get it wedged up a narrow lane!

well i did actually own a colorado,on a 'y' plate about 4 years ago now...

i sourced the colorado from a dealership in rochdale,in your part of the world,saw it on internet ,and got it delivered to colchester, where i met the salesman ,and exchanged a '51' reg rav4 nrg vvti for said colorado.

it was going to be the awesome strong 4x4,that would last me for years...i owned it for about 2 months,and then i drove it home from work on one winters evening,and had a very strong smell of diesel all way home,got it on to driveway,opened bonnett...started engine again,and....horror!!,a thick 2 foot jet of diesel spurting out from a split injector pipe,just as it entered the nut on side of engine.it had left a trail of leaked diesel all way down lane to house. and most of components on that side of engine bay were soaked in diesel

i imediatley turned off engine,got RAC out,they couldnt fix ,so the strong reliable colorado went straight to colchester toyota where pipe was replaced after 2 days off the road.

my 'big strong reliable go anywhere' colorado,had failed me,..my confidence severly knocked in this vehicle,so now very wary of these machines.

it had only 75'000 miles on clock from what i remember,i had even traced last owner's contact phone number,and rang them to enquire as to why they got rid of it ,nowt wrong with it really,only a slight drip of coolant from front of engine underneath,sounded genuinly nice farming people....they traded it in for a 'lc' series.

i know these vehicle are supposed to have 'rock solid' reliability,but mine let me down,off the road for 2 days,wether that was just a freak thing i will never know.

i see adverts everywhere,about where people take these vehicles,'toyota high milers club'....150,000 miles reached with no probs,i still have my doubts.

from all that,and a rav that has never gone wrong....i am weary.

thats why i have a few 'posts' or contributions on the land cruiser forum...but very few comments from others....a shame really,as need my confidence reinstated...somehow.

[anchorman]

Well they seem to use them for going in the desert and the outback so they must be OK. Perhaps they have a dead bog standard one for that and our fancy Euro IV ones are troublesome???

[rambler]

Well they seem to use them for going in the desert and the outback so they must be OK. Perhaps they have a dead bog standard one for that and our fancy Euro IV ones are troublesome???

yes possibly,i do miss my cruiser as it felt solid,and sitting up high 'above' range rover owners was nice for change.and taking it to bures pit locally to me(www.bures-pit.co.uk),where i could test its credentials felt just magic amongst the other 4x4's.

other lr drivers would look at the way the colorado just crawled up the rutted holed hills with ease ,....on tickover,no effort,it felt so sure footed,the engine compression on decents was superb in 1st low box,rarely used the rear diff lock when going got tough.

and above all......i was warm,very comfortable inside(not so in a defender)....just enjoying it all so much,and it came home all muddy,with pride!!

corrr....i may be talking myself into another one here............oh dear