"sold As Seen" Question!

[Zincubus]

My son bought a second hand car a couple of days ago - he bought it off a mate's grandad ( who was supposed to be a mechanic for the last 40 years ) .

The car looked ok even in daylight but although it started up ok when he test drove it - it has refused to start 4 or 5 times in the last few days - seems to be a random fault.

Anyways , the bloke said it was "sold as seen" to my son as he was leaving so my son says that he will have to put it down to experience .

The thing is when my son had a real good look at the car -he discovered that there was no "ENGINE WARNING " bulb and as soon as he put a bulb in the Dash showed the orange engine warning problem .

This all seems a bit naughty to me - I understand that "sold as seen" only refers to things that you can clearly "SEE" so dodgy things like taking out the engine warning bulb should mean that my son has a case - even if it means going through the smalll claims court.

Incidently , is it dangerous or illegal to remove "engine warning bulbs " ????

Help !!!!!

[cfc1]

I would go to the citizens advice beureu (or however you spell it) and tell them the situation.. you either have a case or it is put down to experience as has been said.

I don't know if it's illegal to remove the bulb, but IMO it's morally wrong... as for dangerous, it would depend what the fault(s) are, you need to get the code(s) read.

[bothwell_buyer]

One of these things and removing the engine fault bulb is maybe more common than you think.

It depends on what was paid for the car as to whether it was a reasonable price given possible problems - I bought a previa recently which was half the going price - drove ok but idled rough and had some body damage which i knew about. Turns out the cylinder head is cracked beyond repair so its another head and engine out job.

As with eBay, its "Buyer Beware". I'm happy enough with the Previa as even with the repair costs, its still within my budget....I could have paid twice as much for the same problem.

[Boro Sera]

As far as I'm aware, sold as seen means just that. No comebacks, no guarantee etc.

I don't think you'll have a leg to stand on and I'm pretty sure that Citizens advice will probably tell you the same ( although don't just take my word for it ).

Removing the bulb may have been a bit unscrupulous by the seller, but Buyer Beware always springs to mind.

Hope it's nothing too serious for you.

Good luck

[mainspring]

As far as I'm aware, sold as seen means just that. No comebacks, no guarantee etc.

I don't think you'll have a leg to stand on and I'm pretty sure that Citizens advice will probably tell you the same ( although don't just take my word for it ).

Removing the bulb may have been a bit unscrupulous by the seller, but Buyer Beware always springs to mind.

Hope it's nothing too serious for you.

Good luck

If it's a private sale the vehicle must meet it's description. Was it avertised - have you got the ad., is the description correct ? You may also find it's an offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle. If it's a Trade sale you should have more rights - the whole thing depends on the circumstances.

[sywy]

Having never bought a car privately, I've no idea how the process works.

Is it OK just to shout the words as you're leaving? I've always thought you had to write 'sold as seen' on the receipt or any other paperwork? Otherwise he could have said that he said it, when he didn't.

[xenodrew]

Cross them off the Christmas card list, chalk it up to experience and move on . . .

Personally I'd get the car roadworthy ASAP and get shot of it, if you can afford to. You'll always be wondering what if, or what next.

Next time . . .

http://www.rac.co.uk/vehicle-checks/vehicle-inspection/

The best money you'll spend on a car.

Best of luck.

[dawesy]

as said removing or even wiring up the CEL to the oil pressure light is very common.

before you get into any arguments find out what the fault is. it may just need clearing and the starting fault may just be coinsidence <SP>

its always worth checking all warning lights when buying a car even down to airbag and ABS lights

[Uncle Bob]

A verbal "Sold as seen" is not going to stand up in a small claims court, i would say you have been deceived in your purchase and as the old boy was a mechanic he must have know about the missing bulb

[hertsnminds]

Private sales

There are some situations where your legal rights will be reduced.

The general rule is ‘let the buyer beware’ when you buy from a private individual. It is up to you to find out whether the car is of satisfactory quality, to make your own checks on what you are told and to take responsibility for your choice, as the seller is not liable for the satisfactory quality of the vehicle. You are still entitled, however, to expect the car to be ‘as described’. If the advertisement says ‘2000 Ford Focus’ or ‘excellent condition’ then it should be exactly that. It is important to remember that it may be much more difficult for you to enforce your rights against a private individual.

Source http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf/a/tsusedcars

Buying Privately

Buying privately might be a cheaper option, but it's much riskier, because you have far fewer rights. The only qualification is that the car needs to be "as described." If a private seller lies about the car's condition, then you can sue him.

Source http://www.consumerrightsexpert.co.uk/Buyi...YourRights.html

If you have bought the car from a private seller, who does not normally trade in cars, then there is no legal obligation on the seller to provide a car of satisfactory quality, and it is therefore a much riskier purchase. For this reason, there are more consumer complaints about the purchase of second hand cars than any other, so exercise significant caution - buyer beware!

Source http://whatconsumer.co.uk/buying-a-car/

So it doesn't look good, unless it was described as having no faults.

[Bodgit-fixit-run]

I suspect you probably have a case.

Yes it is up to the buyer to check the vehicle howvere there are some things which you sinmply can't check for.

• Were you told it was sold as seeen in the original advert?
  
• Did you ask if there were any problems with the car? If so what were you told?
  
• I would argue that a missing warning lamp is a deliberate attempt to deceive the buyer it would have been a different matter had the bulb simply blown.
  
• Were you told it was sold as seen before you handed over tha cash. If it was as you were driving away then it has no validity as the contract you agreed was sealed when you handed over the cash. One cannot suddenly change the terms of the contract after it has been agreed.
  
• Do you have a witness to confirm your version of events?
  
• You do have a case if the seller was a mechanic as the test of reasonableness then comes in. A reasonal mechanic would know the vehicle was not roadworthy and as such should not have sold it as such if he led you to believe it was.
  
• Does it have an MOT if so when was it done? If it is new then you might wan't to explore a case against the issuer of the certificate as if the fault is an MOT failure issue they also have a responsibility.
  
• In law it is the test of reasonableness that would come into play.