Dual Mass Flywheel

[dalong]

I have posted this topic in the hope of advice, having suffered a twist in the usual saga of flywheel failure.

My Rav 4 diesel -02 plate, sits stripped in my local toyota dealership, having just been refused repair authorisation by my warrenty company -not unusual you may say!

The issue with vehicle is - a bolt has come adrift from flywheel, destoying it's threds, damaging welds on flywheel & scratching inner plate on engine side.

The warrenty get out clause is worded as follows:-

'One of the internal securing bolts within the flywheel has come loose during service and backed right off, coming completely out of it's threads making contact with the flywheel casing and bending the bolt. The damping mechanism of the flywheel appears serviceable. This would have produced a rattle and is not considered to be due to sudden mechanical breakage and as so has not suffered an unforseen failure as rqd. by the policy, arising from any permanent mechanical defect'.

Nicely wordy I agree -believe this unravels to say -It's not fully broken!!!

This post is to source advice on what could be worst case scenerio of leaving vehicle as is -with one bolt out of flywheel -rattling about in casing by gears/clutch etc, as I see this a requirement for an immediate flywheel replacement?

[Davrav]

I have posted this topic in the hope of advice, having suffered a twist in the usual saga of flywheel failure.

My Rav 4 diesel -02 plate, sits stripped in my local toyota dealership, having just been refused repair authorisation by my warrenty company -not unusual you may say!

The issue with vehicle is - a bolt has come adrift from flywheel, destoying it's threds, damaging welds on flywheel & scratching inner plate on engine side.

The warrenty get out clause is worded as follows:-

'One of the internal securing bolts within the flywheel has come loose during service and backed right off, coming completely out of it's threads making contact with the flywheel casing and bending the bolt. The damping mechanism of the flywheel appears serviceable. This would have produced a rattle and is not considered to be due to sudden mechanical breakage and as so has not suffered an unforseen failure as rqd. by the policy, arising from any permanent mechanical defect'.

Nicely wordy I agree -believe this unravels to say -It's not fully broken!!!

This post is to source advice on what could be worst case scenerio of leaving vehicle as is -with one bolt out of flywheel -rattling about in casing by gears/clutch etc, as I see this a requirement for an immediate flywheel replacement?

Sounds like a maufacturing fault to me - if only one bolt [i assume the others are tight] has come loose it would indicate that it was not torqued correctly during assembly. It would not rattle until it fell out of it's thread so there would be no prior warning until it dropped. Have you been driving around with it rattling or did you go straight to dealer as soon as you were aware of it?

Might be worth getting an independent engineer or RAC report.

Good luck

[dalong]

On noise detection -car recovered to my dealer immediately. My issue is warrenty company claiming this does not constitue failure -while I see a potetial safety issue if the flywheel is left to self destruct or bolt locates in wrong place.

[Davrav]

On noise detection -car recovered to my dealer immediately. My issue is warrenty company claiming this does not constitue failure -while I see a potetial safety issue if the flywheel is left to self destruct or bolt locates in wrong place.

It is not serviceable in current condition and would go on to create more, potentially terminal damage if left. It has failed in my opinion.

The fact that you have caught it before further damage has been done has most likely saved the warranty company from having to pay out a much larger amount. You should not be penalised for your prompt action and I would point this out to them. Are they suggesting it is simply re-assembled in the current condition?

Don't roll over at this stage.

[hertsnminds]

In order for you to have some legal redress you would need the opinion of an independent "expert" to refute the warranty companies statement. This means getting an AA or RAC mechanic or even better a Toyota certified mechanic to put in writing what they believe the cause and effects of the lose/missing bolt would be.

[chatman]

If you want proof of what a loose bolt can do to the DMF... look at the pinned section above and see my DMF with a big hole in it.

I have other photo's of this and also the old part still.. So if you need any pictures PM me and I'll forward them on.

As said above.. maybe worthwhile getting an independent mechanic involved to give evidence if this is left in current state.... What do the warranty company want you to do.. have a complete DMF failure on the motorway.... which is dangerous and unsafe...

[anchorman]

Just when I thought I'd heard everything............ what a crock of s**t.

Tell them you will continue to run it until it completely wrecks the engine and box and they can pay for the lot.

Then tell them that Toyota modified the flywheel and bolts to address this very problem. What is the dealer doing, just sitting on his hands? Why don't they provide a report for you? A bolt is part of an assembly and if it comes loose it causes the Assembly to fail. Thanks to your vigilance you have mitigated what could have been a catastrophic failure - they should be pleased with you.

As the others say, get a report and tell the Toyota dealer to buck his ideas up or you will go elsewhere.

[hertsnminds]

One of the internal securing bolts within the flywheel has come loose during service and backed right off

I have just re-read this phrase from your original posting and would be interested to know if they mean SERVICE as in a service by a garage or IN SERVICE as in normal usage of the car. This specific word especially in terms of a car has two very different meanings. Either way it means the car had a fault from the day it was made (an unsecured bolt) or a garage has loosened it at some point and not tightened it correctly. Both of which would place the fault with either Toyota or the last garage to service the car.

[anchorman]

One of the internal securing bolts within the flywheel has come loose during service and backed right off

I have just re-read this phrase from your original posting and would be interested to know if they mean SERVICE as in a service by a garage or IN SERVICE as in normal usage of the car. This specific word especially in terms of a car has two very different meanings. Either way it means the car had a fault from the day it was made (an unsecured bolt) or a garage has loosened it at some point and not tightened it correctly. Both of which would place the fault with either Toyota or the last garage to service the car.

This was a known fault at the time and this is what TGB had to say

"The issue regarding Dual Mass Flywheels relates to RAV4 CLA20 and CLA21 models (early diesel vehicles) and was found to be that under hard use (towing etc) the flywheel securing bolts were unable to provide sufficient tightness. This was remedied by an improved flywheel and revised fastening and tightening processes, which were introduced into RAV4 vehicle production from August 2002. The improvements were made from VIN numbers,

JT EYG20V400009863

JT EHG20V600026183

JT EHG20V606013132"

The TGB warranty has expired on this issue but when a third party company sells a warranty to an unsuspecting customer has he got the right to exclude this? My feeling is that unless he details the specific fault in writing then no he hasn't and I would take it to a civil court or similar. They are quick to take your money but will come up with all sorts of garbage to avoid coughing up.

[hertsnminds]

That would lead me down the path of no it is not down to the warranty company but the supplying dealer. If you bought the car from a Toyota dealer and they did not inform you of this known issue then they sold you faulty goods. If you purchased the car from another car dealer then surely they have a duty of care to know if they are selling vehicles which are inherently defective i.e subject to manufacturer recalls and upgrades. I don't see how a third party warranty company will ever cover something that Toyota put together incorrectly.