Brake Wobble

[Bodgit-fixit-run]

Hi folks any thoughts around this. I get a slight wobble through the steering wheel when braking. Possibly worse at lower speeds. I'm going to check the disks for run out but think they may well be OK. What else should I check for etc.

[Mark Revill]

Hi folks any thoughts around this. I get a slight wobble through the steering wheel when braking. Possibly worse at lower speeds. I'm going to check the disks for run out but think they may well be OK. What else should I check for etc.

I had the same problem changes disks and pads and instantly sorted out, purchased disc and pads fror EBC buy parts buy on the internet. Went through MOT today and brakes given 100% OK

hope this helps

[NMaria]

My 4.3 D4D recently developed a braking wobble which rapidly deteriorated to severe brake judder and significant reduction in braking efficiency. Garage skimmed the front discs under warranty (replacements being unavailable at the time) and replaced the pads, and now the brakes are better than they have been for a long time. The swept area had become much reduced, causing local overheating and slight warping (although Bothwell Buyer has explained that deposits of pad material can also cause the problem). The car has only done 30k miles so we were surprised that the problem occurred and not sure whether it is the pads or the discs that are substandard, or possibly even both.

Less seriously, if either of the front wheels has gone out of balance that could cause brake wobble too, but you would probably feel that at certains speeds (50 - 60 mph in my experience) even when you are not braking.

[bothwell_buyer]

Theres thousands to be made (and is made) by garages telling people their brake discs are warped. You can even buy machines that will skim the discs in situ for around £4k+.

The problem is not the disc but the pads - generally the pad friction material transferring onto the metal of the disc when the pads and discs get very hot - like after heavy or sustained braking. Anchorman is by far the expert on this.

It can also be down to calipers which are not working properly - eg sticking on and the pistons not retracting properly so the pad is held onto the disc not allowing things to cool down evenly. Getting the disc skimmed slightly will rectify the problem and if the pads are still good, then they can still be used.

I've had the problem for a few years now - in the early days I fitted EBC discs and pads; rotordiscs and EBC pads and it still happened. We eventually found it was the caliper outside sliding shoe which was sticking. Eventually I gave up and moved onto KAD racing brakes. I still had the problem and we put it down to the ferodo DS2500 pads being incorrectly baked. My 2nd RAV hasn't had that problem.

A Previa I got recently had the same issues with the brakes pulsating and it was the rear discs - the caliper on 1 side was sticking and the deposits of pad material were the worst I've ever seen.... and the disc was wrecked. replacement of the discs with EBC and new pads sorted it at a cost of £65 + labour (could have done it myself but the Previa was in for an engine rebuild anyway. If you need discs, check out eBay as several are for sale and may cost the same as skimming.

It doesn't just happen to Toyotas - common to many cars. Maybe I've been unlucky to find the toyota calipers to be crap?

Check the operation of your calipers, and that they retract easily and the shoes bit slide easily. otherwise you may just get the problem happening again. Unless the car is under warranty, ne need to use a dealer.

Checking the discs, you won't find run out easily - but you may see marks which look like the shape of the pad on the disc surface.

[anchorman]

My 4.3 D4D recently developed a braking wobble which rapidly deteriorated to severe brake judder and significant reduction in braking efficiency. Garage skimmed the front discs under warranty (replacements being unavailable at the time) and replaced the pads, and now the brakes are better than they have been for a long time. The swept area had become much reduced, causing local overheating and slight warping (although Bothwell Buyer has explained that deposits of pad material can also cause the problem). The car has only done 30k miles so we were surprised that the problem occurred and not sure whether it is the pads or the discs that are substandard, or possibly even both.

Less seriously, if either of the front wheels has gone out of balance that could cause brake wobble too, but you would probably feel that at certains speeds (50 - 60 mph in my experience) even when you are not braking.

Mine were done under warranty too although I tormented them until they agreed to fit new discs instead of reskimming. The judder was very bad especially when braking hard - say towards an island on a dual carraigeway from 70 (ish!). The discs were black from depositing but mine does low mileage (about 7k a year) and from memory they were changed at 15k or thereabouts.

I remember in the mid 80's we got involved with a brake judder problem on Ford Sierras. Cast iron discs can have a sort of grain in them like wood and in some cases you can be rubbing the pads either with or against the grain. This cause the discs to wear thick/thin rather than simple run out or wobble and is called DTV (disc thickness variation).

After much development work the most affective solution and the cheapest was to make the pads more abrasive and what they did was to machine the surface true. This philosophy was carried over and used by many of the big Euro manufacturers and it is not uncommon for BMWs, Merc and the like to have quite an appetite for discs but no judder problems. The !Removed! did in a different way and developed pads and discs which were more compatible but much more expensive. However, for the first time I am seeing (and experiencing) something that suggests that things may have changed and they have changed tactics. In vehicle development it is hard to create something that "fits all" and while the RAV has the benefit of being built on a Jap production line it also has a disadvantage in that it is developed for its biggest market - the USA. A pad that works well stopping a big heavy V6 engine auto transmission may not be so good on a lighter euro model. So for now I will be watching what happens with pads and discs to see if this problem blooms in which case cheap old euro disc grinders might be a suitable alternative.

[Carlos999]

My 4.3 D4D recently developed a braking wobble which rapidly deteriorated to severe brake judder and significant reduction in braking efficiency. Garage skimmed the front discs under warranty (replacements being unavailable at the time) and replaced the pads, and now the brakes are better than they have been for a long time. The swept area had become much reduced, causing local overheating and slight warping (although Bothwell Buyer has explained that deposits of pad material can also cause the problem). The car has only done 30k miles so we were surprised that the problem occurred and not sure whether it is the pads or the discs that are substandard, or possibly even both.

Less seriously, if either of the front wheels has gone out of balance that could cause brake wobble too, but you would probably feel that at certains speeds (50 - 60 mph in my experience) even when you are not braking.

Mine were done under warranty too although I tormented them until they agreed to fit new discs instead of reskimming. The judder was very bad especially when braking hard - say towards an island on a dual carraigeway from 70 (ish!). The discs were black from depositing but mine does low mileage (about 7k a year) and from memory they were changed at 15k or thereabouts.

I remember in the mid 80's we got involved with a brake judder problem on Ford Sierras. Cast iron discs can have a sort of grain in them like wood and in some cases you can be rubbing the pads either with or against the grain. This cause the discs to wear thick/thin rather than simple run out or wobble and is called DTV (disc thickness variation).

After much development work the most affective solution and the cheapest was to make the pads more abrasive and what they did was to machine the surface true. This philosophy was carried over and used by many of the big Euro manufacturers and it is not uncommon for BMWs, Merc and the like to have quite an appetite for discs but no judder problems. The !Removed! did in a different way and developed pads and discs which were more compatible but much more expensive. However, for the first time I am seeing (and experiencing) something that suggests that things may have changed and they have changed tactics. In vehicle development it is hard to create something that "fits all" and while the RAV has the benefit of being built on a Jap production line it also has a disadvantage in that it is developed for its biggest market - the USA. A pad that works well stopping a big heavy V6 engine auto transmission may not be so good on a lighter euro model. So for now I will be watching what happens with pads and discs to see if this problem blooms in which case cheap old euro disc grinders might be a suitable alternative.

I too have the same problem on the dealer has agreed to change the discs and pads on both front and back, there seems to be a problem with the fronts aparently they are on back order and have been for 4 weeks now, the dealer seems to think that there may be a problem with them. Is anybody awaiting front discs and if so what explaination have you been given for the delay?

[three5]

My 4.3 D4D recently developed a braking wobble which rapidly deteriorated to severe brake judder and significant reduction in braking efficiency. Garage skimmed the front discs under warranty (replacements being unavailable at the time) and replaced the pads, and now the brakes are better than they have been for a long time. The swept area had become much reduced, causing local overheating and slight warping (although Bothwell Buyer has explained that deposits of pad material can also cause the problem). The car has only done 30k miles so we were surprised that the problem occurred and not sure whether it is the pads or the discs that are substandard, or possibly even both.

Less seriously, if either of the front wheels has gone out of balance that could cause brake wobble too, but you would probably feel that at certains speeds (50 - 60 mph in my experience) even when you are not braking.

Mine were done under warranty too although I tormented them until they agreed to fit new discs instead of reskimming. The judder was very bad especially when braking hard - say towards an island on a dual carraigeway from 70 (ish!). The discs were black from depositing but mine does low mileage (about 7k a year) and from memory they were changed at 15k or thereabouts.

I remember in the mid 80's we got involved with a brake judder problem on Ford Sierras. Cast iron discs can have a sort of grain in them like wood and in some cases you can be rubbing the pads either with or against the grain. This cause the discs to wear thick/thin rather than simple run out or wobble and is called DTV (disc thickness variation).

After much development work the most affective solution and the cheapest was to make the pads more abrasive and what they did was to machine the surface true. This philosophy was carried over and used by many of the big Euro manufacturers and it is not uncommon for BMWs, Merc and the like to have quite an appetite for discs but no judder problems. The !Removed! did in a different way and developed pads and discs which were more compatible but much more expensive. However, for the first time I am seeing (and experiencing) something that suggests that things may have changed and they have changed tactics. In vehicle development it is hard to create something that "fits all" and while the RAV has the benefit of being built on a Jap production line it also has a disadvantage in that it is developed for its biggest market - the USA. A pad that works well stopping a big heavy V6 engine auto transmission may not be so good on a lighter euro model. So for now I will be watching what happens with pads and discs to see if this problem blooms in which case cheap old euro disc grinders might be a suitable alternative.

Hi Anchorman,

just as an aside, do you happen to know if the discs are centifugal castings?

[anchorman]

Hi Anchorman,

just as an aside, do you happen to know if the discs are centifugal castings?

No Chris but if it is important to you I can try to find out?

[Bodgit-fixit-run]

Hi guys

Not been around for a while as been very busy with work. Still not checked the disks but will have a lok at the weekend assuming nothing else gets in the way. The wobble isn't too severe at the moment. I have my own lathe so may be able to skim them myself if necessary. I can't see any deposits from a cursary glance so will have to have a really close look.

I did have a problem with the rear brake pad pins which had corroded in so needed polishing up to get then to run free. They are fine now. I did wonder about the calliper so will check that as well.

I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks for the suggestions so far.