Scrappage Scheme

[Red diesel]

Ive no bother with people signing up for the scheme - if your not a car enthusiast and have a car over 10 years old worth say £500 euros and can afford a new one then you could not blame anyone for taking it up - for anyone in the situation ive just outlined - its a fantastic scheme.

However - as a car enthusiast who likes 80s and 90s Japanese cars (and im not exactly averse to late 1970s Datsun 180Bs or 160Js either) - i find it disappointing (well actually thats a mild understatement but i want to be reasonable and calm) to think that immaculate Nissan Bluebirds, Toyota Carina IIs and the like will end up in the scrappie - even though theres nothing wrong with them.

I wouldn't mind so much if modern cars were not so boring - but they are - because nowdays cars are seen as a bad thing. I was at our local shopping centre the other week and our local Hyundai dealer had cars on display (dealers over here do that sometimes - they have the cars on display for a week - great advertising with all the people who pass through a shopping centre on an average day/week) and looked at the i10 thats supposedly so popular on scrappage - god i hate those things - how much of that is the thought of an immaculate Carina II being part exed for one of them - bearing in mind that the Carina II is a much nicer car in the first place - or how much of it is due to them being not a very appealing vehicle in itself is of course debatable.

Sorry if ive ranted too much - but this whole thing really annoys me. Although having said that there cant be that much wrong if thats all thats bothering me

Red diesel

[Bizarra]

Totally agree

If you look around when in any Super Market car park, there are very few cars (modern) which will catch your eye :(

I usually have to look at the Badge to see what the car is.

Like you, I love the 80s & 90s Toyotas. My Corolla Exec GL 16 valve stands out anywhere & it is my 2nd, my previous was an 89 one.

I have 134k miles on the clock & going like a sewing machine. :D

If things went seriously [expensively] wrong, I would search for another good one, though they are now getting scarce :(

Other than that, a good Sera.

In other words, the Scrappage scheme is not on my agenda.

[Parts-King]

Ive worked with Toyota cars since 1975

Whilst some of the older models had their own styling, frankly, they were as dull as ditch water!

To small, lack of legroom, poor engine performance and fuel consumption, soggy handling the list goes on and on

The thing they did excel at was making reliable cars at an affordable price, but changes in the world economies meant in order to make money, they needed to be made in Europe, the UK even, and they had to be made in vast numbers

Look at the first Carine E, it was slated by every motoring journo for being everything mentioned above

The scrappage scheme, whilst not perfect, has had a massive effect on the UK economy, tens of thousands of people have signed up, and some old, kackered cars have been removed from the road. BUT it works the other way round too, we scrapped a lovely 24K mile, genuine one owner Starlet the other day, it was immaculate, but it had to go in order to get the government grant.

Scrappage has been GREAT, kept a lot of people in jobs, lets see an extension to the feeble amount of money the government have capped it at AND give a REAL £2000 from the government, NOT the £1000 it actually is with another £1000 coming from the dealer/manufacturer, the govenment get their £1K back in VAT alone on a lot of cars

Kingo

[Calisto]

I agree with all the above.

It is sad to see old "worthy" cars being scrapped but at the same time it is helping alot of people out of a sticky situation.... my Dad being one of them.....so now we have "soon" a brand new yaris, very eco friendly.....Made in Swansea I think, or at least a part of it was. And My 19 year old MR2 that sticks to goverment emmision guidelines. :D

[Red diesel]

But how is it helping buyers out of a sticky situation - prior to the introduction of the scrappage scheme - someone needing a new to them car - could quite easily have bought a model that was 6 months to a year old - nothing wrong with something thats nearly new (its not like people who really need a car and could not afford a car - any car are suddenly now able to buy one).

As regards the jobs being created/saved - there was no need for the goverment to actually insist that the cars had to be scrapped - you could just have offered a grant to anyone thats buying a new car with less then a certain level of Co2 ie target the selling of low emission cars. The thing is that there was no need to insist on scrapping the old car - and yes i know that some folk are only inclined to only go for the scheme because theyre thinking im getting 2 grand for my old 94 200 000 mile Mondeo 1.8td thats only worth 50p on the open market - but youd make up for that with the people that be trading in big mercs and Jags less then 10 years old for a Prius - because "we need to be seen as environmentally considerate". The other thing is that it seems that a lot of the cars being sold are Hyundais - which contridicts the jobs argument slightly because - Hyundai don't build any cars in the UK.

Yes i accept that its helping the motor trade maintain jobs which is good - but my suggested scheme would be a lot better - but thats probably wishful thinking on my part

Red diesel

[Karma Supra]

I think another point is a lot of older cars were built to last... whereas new cars are not and suffer from design obsolescence.

Cars are simply not built like they used to be. Sure there is more technology, advances in chassis design etc, but the older cars seemed to be better engineered, with a higher grade of materials used.

Quite frankly I'm disgusted at the shonky plastics used in my M3, the fact that its 6 years old and has already had a claim under rust warranty, that I have just had to replace all ball joints and bushes at 30,000 miles and the fact that the back springs keep snapping. My 80s supras were far better built, everything felt solid the switches switched with a satisfying clunk..... It is not just the brand because my old 80s 6 series was built like an absolute tank, - infact it was built better than a similar ages Roll Royce, and ran like an absolute dream at 240,000 miles.

The same goes with Mercedes, - M parents have had S classes and SLs since I was about 4, so over the years I have seen the gadgets and handling get better, the build quality go down. Mum's current model which is not three years old has lose bits of trim, failing electronics etc etc, Dad's S class is doing better with just radio reception loss when rear glass heater is on, a few failed springs, and bits of trim falling down... - these are not bargain basement cars either!

Same again with my old 80s mki polo back in the day, and my other half's mkiii polo... and a whole host of other examples I'll not bore you with! But it looks like Toyota have the same issues, I have seen more failed bits on Aygo/Auris threads than I can care to mention, and have sat in most new models and thought they felt "unfinished".

Then we get onto the fact that the dealer has to cough up half of the £1k saving out of already very tight margins, the car has to be taxed, etc etc..

[Red diesel]

Indeed its true that newer cars don't seem quite as reliable in general - however there are exceptions - Focuses are more reliable then older Sierras (a car that itself was more reliable then many people gave credit for). I think the peak point for reliability and quality (where improvements stopped and standards dropped) was between the late 80s and the mid 90s - Mercedes is an excellent example of this - 95 W124 = fantastic build quality - 96 W210 = rust problems after only 10 years of age.

In fact some cars that in the 80s and 90s had a reputation for less then fabulous reliability all of a sudden don't look at all bad when compared with some modern cars from manufacturers that had excellent reputations for reliability back then - and still have now.

And ive just remembered something else - Parts king mentioned jobs in the motor industry - what about all the independent garages and parts suppliers that fix and supply parts for older (over 10 years old) cars. If say 200 mechanics are needed by main dealers to cope with extra demand caused by extra scrappage sales - does this mean that 200 mechanics from the independant sector will lose their jobs.

Red diesel

[Calisto]

It got my Dad out of a sticky situation by getting rid of the old car........it was worth nothing....dropped it of at the Toyota dealers and its gone......Toyota sort out the paper work etc, no worries or hassle.

Dad also wanted peace of mind.....not a car that "could" blow a headgasket or something similar 2 miles down the road after purchase. It's all covered under the warranty.

But the biggest winner of buying a car on the scrappage scheme....is monthly payments for people that do not have millions in the bank to cough up for a new or even a second hand car.

There is alot that can be said for buying a new car over a 2nd hand one......but thats for a differnt thread.

Plus after 3 years.........you are given the opertunity to get/buy or sort a new deal out on another new car, just as quickly and efficiently as the one we just bought.

Scrappage scheme worked in our favour.

[Demonic Angel]

However - as a car enthusiast who likes 80s and 90s Japanese cars (and im not exactly averse to late 1970s Datsun 180Bs or 160Js either) - i find it disappointing (well actually thats a mild understatement but i want to be reasonable and calm) to think that immaculate Nissan Bluebirds, Toyota Carina IIs and the like will end up in the scrappie - even though theres nothing wrong with them.

I did think of this, as there are some excellent examples of older cars that are on the road to becoming classics, if they aren't classics already....

I spoke to a friend about it and their answer was "If someone has a mint/good condition older car, they're more likely to be a collector or an enthusiast anyway and therefore will not be the sort to partake in the scrappage scheme" which is a fair comment....

Most cars you could actually get more than £2k for in the collectors market anyway I'd imagine.... that mint late 1980's Mk1 MR2 a few years ago springs to mind.... absolutely perfect it was, something like 17 miles on the clock, I think it sold on eBay for around £15k in the end

[andrewfq]

One thing to remember is some people couldn't afford deposits etc....this scheme in a way, helps them.

Regarding cars that there is nothing wrong with them being scrapped, my Camry is 17 years old. It's also in showroom mint condition, never failed an mot or ever had an advisory (I have all the documents).

I'm dreading the day I hand it over, but it does 24mpg at best. The Aygo I am gettting will do easily double that, all in I'll be saving money over all and I've also got other priorities.

Yes, 'I' may not be getting a £2k, but what I am getting is worth far more than the value of the car even once recent price increases are taken into consideration.

To sum up, all good things must come to an end. :(

[Red diesel]

Good points Andrew Fq - and of course its worth noting that cars are being scrapped every day irrespective of scrappage schemes - simply because somethings gone wrong thats costing more then the cars worth to fix. So cars are being scrapped simply because say a headgaskets gone or it needs a new gearbox.

My issue with the scrappage scheme is not the idea of the 2 grand grant and discount idea - its the fact you have to scrap a car to get it. Id have preferred however that you got the 2 grand simply for buying a low emissions car under a certain level of C02 emissions - and that the car (if any) being traded in could be sold on in the normal way. Ive no bother with you putting your Camry in for scrappage - but if the scheme had been done out in the way ive suggested ie no need to scrap a car - your Camry would have gone back on the market as normal and someone else who likes those cars would be able to buy your car.

So to avoid misunderstanding and to sum up and go back in my box

Ive no bother with someone wanting to avail of the scheme regardless of the fact that the car being scrapped is in perfect condition - if you need a newer car and the old ones worth very little (less then 2 grand) and is more then 10 years old - its a very good deal especially at the lower end of the market ie Aygos and Pandas - as you can potentially be in a new car for less then 5 grand - which obviously a lot of people find a very attractive proposition. Id also like to wish everyone whose availing of the scrappage scheme the very best of luck with their new cars - i mean that genuinely regardless of my personal opinions of the scrappage scheme itself.

Now i must find something else to give out about

Red diesel

[Karma Supra]

Correct me if I am wrong, but as it is an "opt in" scheme, not all cars are available. AFAIK the Aygo is NOT available under scrappage, as there is too little margin in it for the dealer to take a £1k hit.

You can buy a "lovely" Auris on scrappage though.

[andrewfq]

Most modern cars up to the 10yrd old age range are in themselves a lot safer than the older ones although they may not always be built to last.

At the moment, government wants to help the industry and also to improve the safety of vehicles on the road. This scheme is the ideal way to do that at this time. It'll also give them an idea on how future schemes which may or may not be similar to what you propose could be run. Who knows if this may happen when the majority of vbehicles on the road reach a certain standard of safety.

As you say, good luck to one and all with any new car they get. :)

As to the comment about cares available on the scheme, all the range is available. It appears to be one of conditions for dealers to participate, just check out the Aygo forum and you'll see pictures of new cars that have arrived on the scheme. B)

[Demonic Angel]

Correct me if I am wrong, but as it is an "opt in" scheme, not all cars are available. AFAIK the Aygo is NOT available under scrappage, as there is too little margin in it for the dealer to take a £1k hit.

You can buy a "lovely" Auris on scrappage though.

There's a load of new/future Aygo owners in the Aygo forum who've taken advantage of scrappage so it is available under the scheme....

[Karma Supra]

I think another point is a lot of older cars were built to last... whereas new cars are not and suffer from design obsolescence.

Cars are simply not built like they used to be. Sure there is more technology, advances in chassis design etc, but the older cars seemed to be better engineered, with a higher grade of materials used.

Quite frankly I'm disgusted at the shonky plastics used in my M3, the fact that its 6 years old and has already had a claim under rust warranty, that I have just had to replace all ball joints and bushes at 30,000 miles and the fact that the back springs keep snapping. My 80s supras were far better built, everything felt solid the switches switched with a satisfying clunk..... It is not just the brand because my old 80s 6 series was built like an absolute tank, - infact it was built better than a similar ages Roll Royce, and ran like an absolute dream at 240,000 miles.

The same goes with Mercedes, - M parents have had S classes and SLs since I was about 4, so over the years I have seen the gadgets and handling get better, the build quality go down. Mum's current model which is not three years old has lose bits of trim, failing electronics etc etc, Dad's S class is doing better with just radio reception loss when rear glass heater is on, a few failed springs, and bits of trim falling down... - these are not bargain basement cars either!

Same again with my old 80s mki polo back in the day, and my other half's mkiii polo... and a whole host of other examples I'll not bore you with! But it looks like Toyota have the same issues, I have seen more failed bits on Aygo/Auris threads than I can care to mention, and have sat in most new models and thought they felt "unfinished".

Then we get onto the fact that the dealer has to cough up half of the £1k saving out of already very tight margins, the car has to be taxed, etc etc..

I take it back.. took it fora blast today.

Friggin awesome!!!

Correct me if I am wrong, but as it is an "opt in" scheme, not all cars are available. AFAIK the Aygo is NOT available under scrappage, as there is too little margin in it for the dealer to take a £1k hit.

You can buy a "lovely" Auris on scrappage though.

There's a load of new/future Aygo owners in the Aygo forum who've taken advantage of scrappage so it is available under the scheme....

Its changed then, that wasn't the case at first!