Diesel "misfire" Effect

[roadsterstu]

Hi,

Have read the other recent posts about running/performance issues but my problem seems slightly different. Have a 2.2 diesel (not the T180) and I've recently noticed a kind of hesitation. It has only recently developed and it is getting noticably worse, the car having done just over 30k miles, 2006 model TR. Seems to occur when neither fully off the accelerator, but not actually accelerating either. A very slight pressure on the accelerator in this situation reveals what feels like a kind of "misfire" or some kind of fuelling issue. The engine feels to slightly bog down. Either a very slight lift of the pedal or a very slight pressure and everything is fine, but at this one point, something isn't quite as it should be. I suspect ultimately it will be a dealer visit and a diagnostics check or ECU reflash, perhaps. Just wondered if there was any known issue - it could be a sensor fault, wiring connection problem, etc, etc but seeing as I never noticed it when we got the car and it has developed, suggests that it is more than just a "feature" of the ECU mapping.

Thanks in advance,

Stu

2006 '06 Verso 2.2 TR

[hertsnminds]

Problem is you have so many things to take into consideration (as does the engine management system) engine temperature, air temperature, air flow, fuel flow, exhaust gas composition, exhaust particulate build up, engine revs, throttle position, engine load, wheel slip etc etc.

Unless you can start to eliminate some of the variables by saying the condition happens only when the engine is cold at a certain engine speed (revs) in any gear (or even better when stopped with the hand brake on) then the best way to find out if any of the sensors are giving inaccurate readings is connect up a diagnostic computer.

[roadsterstu]

Yup, appreciate what you mean. I've not yet managed to narrow it down to a definite set of circumstances yet. It's primarily the missus' car, so I don't drive it daily. However, now she's on maternity leave, I'll drive it more and see what I can find out. Driven it a 40 mile round trip today and it was fine. Fuel consumption seems OK, power feels OK. Idles fine, generally drives nicely. Apart from this. Maybe it's Morrison's diesel, even. I don't know if this car has ever had the infamous ECU reflash at service time or not, if it has, it would have been before its time with us.

[jonnyfalk]

Yup, appreciate what you mean. I've not yet managed to narrow it down to a definite set of circumstances yet. It's primarily the missus' car, so I don't drive it daily. However, now she's on maternity leave, I'll drive it more and see what I can find out. Driven it a 40 mile round trip today and it was fine. Fuel consumption seems OK, power feels OK. Idles fine, generally drives nicely. Apart from this. Maybe it's Morrison's diesel, even. I don't know if this car has ever had the infamous ECU reflash at service time or not, if it has, it would have been before its time with us.

hi mine has the same kina prob . ive got the T180 the other day while pulling away from a roundabout the car seems to hesitate then shoots off . havnt had it long will have to get it looked at

[cabcurtains]

I've had these symptons on other Diesels before when they have had blocked/chocked EGR valves, typically on cars that do short journeys or a lot of urban miles. However i am not sure if the Verso has an EGR valve so this could be red herring! ;)

[Tunasteak]

I've had these symptons on other Diesels before when they have had blocked/chocked EGR valves, typically on cars that do short journeys or a lot of urban miles. However i am not sure if the Verso has an EGR valve so this could be red herring! ;)

Yes the Verso, as do all modern diesels, has an EGR valve; mine was checked and cleaned recently, the reason being as you stated probably due to type of journeys.

[*Rich*]

Mine sounds similar. I just imagined it might be to do with the turbo spinning up or something.

Also at part throttle the engine sounds quite rattly. If I lift off slightly or apply slightly more pressure it sounds smooth again, its just certain throttle positions.

As these things dont cause me any problems I just leave them, as far as I know they may well be just a characteristic of these engines, this being the only one I've driven.

[Montyone]

I've had an avensis T180 and now a Verso T180 and have driven a normal 2.2 avensis for several thousand miles and have noticed the faults listed in this thread. The T180 engine can sometimes bog down when pulling away from standstill if you don't keep the revs up and I have had a couple of near misses. As soon as the turbo kicks in you take off like a rocket which can be just as dangerous.

I have also found that there appears to be a certain accelerator position where it feels like the car hesitates. I have always put this down to there being a point where the engine management system doesn't know whether to fuel the engine or not and either lifting off or adding more pressure resolves the issue. I get round it by not keeping my foot on the the gas when just maintaining speed.

Not a technical reply but I hope it helps

[roadsterstu]

I've had an avensis T180 and now a Verso T180 and have driven a normal 2.2 avensis for several thousand miles and have noticed the faults listed in this thread. The T180 engine can sometimes bog down when pulling away from standstill if you don't keep the revs up and I have had a couple of near misses. As soon as the turbo kicks in you take off like a rocket which can be just as dangerous.

I have also found that there appears to be a certain accelerator position where it feels like the car hesitates. I have always put this down to there being a point where the engine management system doesn't know whether to fuel the engine or not and either lifting off or adding more pressure resolves the issue. I get round it by not keeping my foot on the the gas when just maintaining speed.

Not a technical reply but I hope it helps

It does, thank you. I could live with it if it wasn't getting slightly worse. I'll look at the EGR valve, as suggested by cabcurtains and tunasteak. Thanks chaps.

Stu

[Ruth-Anne]

I would also consider an injector problem as my wifes car was also doing this after having all the injectors replaced under warranty and still 2 of them were faulty. Has to be worth a thought anyway!!

[twingo69]

Hi,

Have read the other recent posts about running/performance issues but my problem seems slightly different. Have a 2.2 diesel (not the T180) and I've recently noticed a kind of hesitation. It has only recently developed and it is getting noticably worse, the car having done just over 30k miles, 2006 model TR. Seems to occur when neither fully off the accelerator, but not actually accelerating either. A very slight pressure on the accelerator in this situation reveals what feels like a kind of "misfire" or some kind of fuelling issue. The engine feels to slightly bog down. Either a very slight lift of the pedal or a very slight pressure and everything is fine, but at this one point, something isn't quite as it should be. I suspect ultimately it will be a dealer visit and a diagnostics check or ECU reflash, perhaps. Just wondered if there was any known issue - it could be a sensor fault, wiring connection problem, etc, etc but seeing as I never noticed it when we got the car and it has developed, suggests that it is more than just a "feature" of the ECU mapping.

Thanks in advance,

Stu

2006 '06 Verso 2.2 TR

I have a 2006 T180 Verso 40k miles and it had the same problems and surfing the internet lead me to looking at the EGR valve which was a simple job to remove and clean ( Yes it needed cleaning as when you remove the valve there are two orifices and one was completely blocked and the other was a 1/4 of the size ). the hardest job was finding which was the correct valve. It lies at the front of the engine, in front of the injectors and has a flex metal pipe running to the cylinder head if is remove using a 12 mm socket and took about half an hour to complete, I will remove again when I have some carb cleaner handy but using a scraper (screw driver) did the trick for now see photos of before and after. so cleaning easy and saved me paying a Toyota Garage £135 for the valve plus labour for renewing the valve :D

Hope this Helps

[g8jax]

Hi,

Have read the other recent posts about running/performance issues but my problem seems slightly different. Have a 2.2 diesel (not the T180) and I've recently noticed a kind of hesitation. It has only recently developed and it is getting noticably worse, the car having done just over 30k miles, 2006 model TR. Seems to occur when neither fully off the accelerator, but not actually accelerating either. A very slight pressure on the accelerator in this situation reveals what feels like a kind of "misfire" or some kind of fuelling issue. The engine feels to slightly bog down. Either a very slight lift of the pedal or a very slight pressure and everything is fine, but at this one point, something isn't quite as it should be. I suspect ultimately it will be a dealer visit and a diagnostics check or ECU reflash, perhaps. Just wondered if there was any known issue - it could be a sensor fault, wiring connection problem, etc, etc but seeing as I never noticed it when we got the car and it has developed, suggests that it is more than just a "feature" of the ECU mapping.

Thanks in advance,

Stu

2006 '06 Verso 2.2 TR

I have a 2006 T180 Verso 40k miles and it had the same problems and surfing the internet lead me to looking at the EGR valve which was a simple job to remove and clean ( Yes it needed cleaning as when you remove the valve there are two orifices and one was completely blocked and the other was a 1/4 of the size ). the hardest job was finding which was the correct valve. It lies at the front of the engine, in front of the injectors and has a flex metal pipe running to the cylinder head if is remove using a 12 mm socket and took about half an hour to complete, I will remove again when I have some carb cleaner handy but using a scraper (screw driver) did the trick for now see photos of before and after. so cleaning easy and saved me paying a Toyota Garage £135 for the valve plus labour for renewing the valve :D

Hope this Helps

I have a 2005 T180 Verso 27K miles that showed all the symptoms of a blocked EGR Valve. Tick over fine, significant loss of low revs power and a flat spot around 1800 rpm but once the turbo spun up power delivery seemed normal. No signs of any smoke from the exhaust. Had recently had the car serviced by a local non T garage who did the essentials including fuel filter but their basic diagnostic kit found no ECU logged errors. Having googled around found your excellent forum which led me to the EGR valve (thanks to twingo 69 for his pics).

It took about 30 mins to dismantle and both the valve body and the inlet manifold were about 90% blocked. I had no chemical cleaner at this stage so cleaned out using the screwdriver method and re assembled. I was a concerned on the initial test drive that I appeared to have made the condition much worse, so returned home via 'Mugfords' with newly purchased tin of Inlet Manifold and Carb Cleaner.

The valve was removed again and flushed with the cleaner. At this stage I noticed daylight between the valve seat and the body when the valve was closed. I finally proved it was not closing by blowing thru the inlet side and felt no resistance at all (although it did leave a bit of an after taste!). After several more flushes with the cleaning fluid and a bit of manual opening and closing of the valve it eventually sealed closed. Duly re assembled and motor runs like new with no hesitations at all. I was surprised that such a small opening in the valve would have such a dramatic effect on the cars performance and thought I would warn you all to check this if you suffer the same fault condition.

Hope this Helps

[Aamir2892]

Hi,

Have read the other recent posts about running/performance issues but my problem seems slightly different. Have a 2.2 diesel (not the T180) and I've recently noticed a kind of hesitation. It has only recently developed and it is getting noticably worse, the car having done just over 30k miles, 2006 model TR. Seems to occur when neither fully off the accelerator, but not actually accelerating either. A very slight pressure on the accelerator in this situation reveals what feels like a kind of "misfire" or some kind of fuelling issue. The engine feels to slightly bog down. Either a very slight lift of the pedal or a very slight pressure and everything is fine, but at this one point, something isn't quite as it should be. I suspect ultimately it will be a dealer visit and a diagnostics check or ECU reflash, perhaps. Just wondered if there was any known issue - it could be a sensor fault, wiring connection problem, etc, etc but seeing as I never noticed it when we got the car and it has developed, suggests that it is more than just a "feature" of the ECU mapping.

Thanks in advance,

Stu

2006 '06 Verso 2.2 TR

I have a 2006 T180 Verso 40k miles and it had the same problems and surfing the internet lead me to looking at the EGR valve which was a simple job to remove and clean ( Yes it needed cleaning as when you remove the valve there are two orifices and one was completely blocked and the other was a 1/4 of the size ). the hardest job was finding which was the correct valve. It lies at the front of the engine, in front of the injectors and has a flex metal pipe running to the cylinder head if is remove using a 12 mm socket and took about half an hour to complete, I will remove again when I have some carb cleaner handy but using a scraper (screw driver) did the trick for now see photos of before and after. so cleaning easy and saved me paying a Toyota Garage £135 for the valve plus labour for renewing the valve :D

Hope this Helps

Twingo what did you use to clean the valve?

[Rick D4D]

Top thread I have just done mine on a Auris T180, I have noticed approx 10mpg drop in mpg so I have checked and cleaned this. It took me only 15minutes to remove and clean and found this very easy to do.

[twingo69]

Hi,

Have read the other recent posts about running/performance issues but my problem seems slightly different. Have a 2.2 diesel (not the T180) and I've recently noticed a kind of hesitation. It has only recently developed and it is getting noticably worse, the car having done just over 30k miles, 2006 model TR. Seems to occur when neither fully off the accelerator, but not actually accelerating either. A very slight pressure on the accelerator in this situation reveals what feels like a kind of "misfire" or some kind of fuelling issue. The engine feels to slightly bog down. Either a very slight lift of the pedal or a very slight pressure and everything is fine, but at this one point, something isn't quite as it should be. I suspect ultimately it will be a dealer visit and a diagnostics check or ECU reflash, perhaps. Just wondered if there was any known issue - it could be a sensor fault, wiring connection problem, etc, etc but seeing as I never noticed it when we got the car and it has developed, suggests that it is more than just a "feature" of the ECU mapping.

Thanks in advance,

Stu

2006 '06 Verso 2.2 TR

I have a 2006 T180 Verso 40k miles and it had the same problems and surfing the internet lead me to looking at the EGR valve which was a simple job to remove and clean ( Yes it needed cleaning as when you remove the valve there are two orifices and one was completely blocked and the other was a 1/4 of the size ). the hardest job was finding which was the correct valve. It lies at the front of the engine, in front of the injectors and has a flex metal pipe running to the cylinder head if is remove using a 12 mm socket and took about half an hour to complete, I will remove again when I have some carb cleaner handy but using a scraper (screw driver) did the trick for now see photos of before and after. so cleaning easy and saved me paying a Toyota Garage £135 for the valve plus labour for renewing the valve :D

Hope this Helps

Twingo what did you use to clean the valve?

I used PUTOLINE CARB CLEANER

[carday]

Not sure if I have the same problem as the symptoms are slightly different. Mine has done 165k and since around 120k every now and then the engine will not accelerate and the engine management light comes on, I re-start the engine and everything is fine, I was told by a local NON T garage that it was a turbo problem, as in the variable vein in the turbo was collapsing, I would have thought that after another 40odd k that the turbo would be shot but it still performs well, anyhow I found out that you can reset the management light by removing a fuse temporarily, This is a great help as every time it comes back on I know what the problem is. Could this be the EGR valve as described in earlier posts.

[me2]

hi i cant find my egr valve on my avensis 2.0 diesal estate 03 plATE COULD YOU HELP ME FIND IT

[haydenb]

Hi,

Have read the other recent posts about running/performance issues but my problem seems slightly different. Have a 2.2 diesel (not the T180) and I've recently noticed a kind of hesitation. It has only recently developed and it is getting noticably worse, the car having done just over 30k miles, 2006 model TR. Seems to occur when neither fully off the accelerator, but not actually accelerating either. A very slight pressure on the accelerator in this situation reveals what feels like a kind of "misfire" or some kind of fuelling issue. The engine feels to slightly bog down. Either a very slight lift of the pedal or a very slight pressure and everything is fine, but at this one point, something isn't quite as it should be. I suspect ultimately it will be a dealer visit and a diagnostics check or ECU reflash, perhaps. Just wondered if there was any known issue - it could be a sensor fault, wiring connection problem, etc, etc but seeing as I never noticed it when we got the car and it has developed, suggests that it is more than just a "feature" of the ECU mapping.

Thanks in advance,

Stu

2006 '06 Verso 2.2 TR

I have a 2006 T180 Verso 40k miles and it had the same problems and surfing the internet lead me to looking at the EGR valve which was a simple job to remove and clean ( Yes it needed cleaning as when you remove the valve there are two orifices and one was completely blocked and the other was a 1/4 of the size ). the hardest job was finding which was the correct valve. It lies at the front of the engine, in front of the injectors and has a flex metal pipe running to the cylinder head if is remove using a 12 mm socket and took about half an hour to complete, I will remove again when I have some carb cleaner handy but using a scraper (screw driver) did the trick for now see photos of before and after. so cleaning easy and saved me paying a Toyota Garage £135 for the valve plus labour for renewing the valve :D

Hope this Helps

Super post, new to this forum but this is a real help.

My 2005 2.2D avensis has been misfiring with intermittent engine management lights, sometimes showing vsc and abs ? and I've had the car serviced at a Toyota main dealer and they have advised I need the EGR changing and manifold cleaning out.

They initially quoted over £600 for this, but they have dropped this to £530 !

I fail to understand how they have cooked up this price given your excellent info.

I'm a bit of a novice and have not been under a bonnet for a few years, well before fuel injection, but have located the EGR valve.

Apologies for dragging this out,as I am a novice here are the steps I will take, could you advise if I am wrong, forgive my lack of correct terminology.

1.Un clip the electrical cable from the motor type unit labelled Denso.

2.Remove the two female nuts from the unit attached to the manifold - do you then need to loosen off the male nuts.

3.Once the nuts are removed the whole unit should slide off to left, will the attached pipe remove easily enough ?

4.Notice you had removed the motor unit, this has three nuts that require an allen key, are there any pitfalls to removing this and replacing.

5.Clean and replace.

Thanks once again for your post twingo and to the others on the forum who have contributed, even if I decide not to have a crack at this, your post has made their quote for this work look an absolute mockery.

[IainM]

Hi,

Have read the other recent posts about running/performance issues but my problem seems slightly different. Have a 2.2 diesel (not the T180) and I've recently noticed a kind of hesitation. It has only recently developed and it is getting noticably worse, the car having done just over 30k miles, 2006 model TR. Seems to occur when neither fully off the accelerator, but not actually accelerating either. A very slight pressure on the accelerator in this situation reveals what feels like a kind of "misfire" or some kind of fuelling issue. The engine feels to slightly bog down. Either a very slight lift of the pedal or a very slight pressure and everything is fine, but at this one point, something isn't quite as it should be. I suspect ultimately it will be a dealer visit and a diagnostics check or ECU reflash, perhaps. Just wondered if there was any known issue - it could be a sensor fault, wiring connection problem, etc, etc but seeing as I never noticed it when we got the car and it has developed, suggests that it is more than just a "feature" of the ECU mapping.

Thanks in advance,

Stu

2006 '06 Verso 2.2 TR

I have a 2006 T180 Verso 40k miles and it had the same problems and surfing the internet lead me to looking at the EGR valve which was a simple job to remove and clean ( Yes it needed cleaning as when you remove the valve there are two orifices and one was completely blocked and the other was a 1/4 of the size ). the hardest job was finding which was the correct valve. It lies at the front of the engine, in front of the injectors and has a flex metal pipe running to the cylinder head if is remove using a 12 mm socket and took about half an hour to complete, I will remove again when I have some carb cleaner handy but using a scraper (screw driver) did the trick for now see photos of before and after. so cleaning easy and saved me paying a Toyota Garage £135 for the valve plus labour for renewing the valve :D

Hope this Helps

Super post, new to this forum but this is a real help.

My 2005 2.2D avensis has been misfiring with intermittent engine management lights, sometimes showing vsc and abs ? and I've had the car serviced at a Toyota main dealer and they have advised I need the EGR changing and manifold cleaning out.

They initially quoted over £600 for this, but they have dropped this to £530 !

I fail to understand how they have cooked up this price given your excellent info.

I'm a bit of a novice and have not been under a bonnet for a few years, well before fuel injection, but have located the EGR valve.

Apologies for dragging this out,as I am a novice here are the steps I will take, could you advise if I am wrong, forgive my lack of correct terminology.

1.Un clip the electrical cable from the motor type unit labelled Denso.

2.Remove the two female nuts from the unit attached to the manifold - do you then need to loosen off the male nuts.

3.Once the nuts are removed the whole unit should slide off to left, will the attached pipe remove easily enough ?

4.Notice you had removed the motor unit, this has three nuts that require an allen key, are there any pitfalls to removing this and replacing.

5.Clean and replace.

Thanks once again for your post twingo and to the others on the forum who have contributed, even if I decide not to have a crack at this, your post has made their quote for this work look an absolute mockery.

Am interested in this & plan to clean my EGR (now I know where it is!) in the next week or so before we go on a long trip. Mine was replaced last year about 6K miles ago under warranty so I shall be interested to see what it looks like in there. One question though, are there any gaskets in there that might need replacing when you remove it?

[Bod & Hammie]

Hi,

We have a misfire on start up for about 3 or 4 seconds with large amounts of blue smoke on our verso 2.2 d4d '57 plate.

It has only done 22k miles and is still under warranty and MrT say the injectors are shot and will replace them on 24th July but I'm not convinced.

What do you all think.

Bod

[IainM]

Hi,

We have a misfire on start up for about 3 or 4 seconds with large amounts of blue smoke on our verso 2.2 d4d '57 plate.

It has only done 22k miles and is still under warranty and MrT say the injectors are shot and will replace them on 24th July but I'm not convinced.

What do you all think.

Bod

Definitly clean the EGR first. Fuel injectors should not be "shot" after only 22K miles, that's ridiculous. If its still doing it after cleaning the EGR then take it to another dealer.

Just realised though, as a 57 plate is it not still under warranty? If so then let them do what they like :D

[Bod & Hammie]

Yep, still under warranty until September so I am going to have egr valve done at the same time, and ask them what happens after that as the fault has started during the warranty period.

I'm hoping they will say they will honour the warranty until the fault is fixed even after the warranty but I doubt they will.

Thanks,

Bod

[afterburn]

Got a T180. Had the engine management light come on followed by the system going into 'limp' mode. Had the valve cleaned and the engine management reset only for same problem 400 miles later. Assume that those who are cleaning their egr are doing so before the engine management system kicks in or are you able to reset it yourselves?

[spence631]

Just like to say that I bought a 2005 Avensis 2.0 D4D last week, and during the test drive all appeared fine. However it soon became apparent that after a period of driving it became dangerously sluggish when pulling out or climbing in low gear. I did an EGR clean today with the help information from this forum site and the car is now driving like a peach. Thanks a lot.

[jifl]

Hi,

Have read the other recent posts about running/performance issues but my problem seems slightly different. Have a 2.2 diesel (not the T180) and I've recently noticed a kind of hesitation. It has only recently developed and it is getting noticably worse, the car having done just over 30k miles, 2006 model TR. Seems to occur when neither fully off the accelerator, but not actually accelerating either. A very slight pressure on the accelerator in this situation reveals what feels like a kind of "misfire" or some kind of fuelling issue. The engine feels to slightly bog down. Either a very slight lift of the pedal or a very slight pressure and everything is fine, but at this one point, something isn't quite as it should be. I suspect ultimately it will be a dealer visit and a diagnostics check or ECU reflash, perhaps. Just wondered if there was any known issue - it could be a sensor fault, wiring connection problem, etc, etc but seeing as I never noticed it when we got the car and it has developed, suggests that it is more than just a "feature" of the ECU mapping.

Thanks in advance,

Stu

2006 '06 Verso 2.2 TR

I have a 2006 T180 Verso 40k miles and it had the same problems and surfing the internet lead me to looking at the EGR valve which was a simple job to remove and clean ( Yes it needed cleaning as when you remove the valve there are two orifices and one was completely blocked and the other was a 1/4 of the size ). the hardest job was finding which was the correct valve. It lies at the front of the engine, in front of the injectors and has a flex metal pipe running to the cylinder head if is remove using a 12 mm socket and took about half an hour to complete, I will remove again when I have some carb cleaner handy but using a scraper (screw driver) did the trick for now see photos of before and after. so cleaning easy and saved me paying a Toyota Garage £135 for the valve plus labour for renewing the valve :D

Hope this Helps

Super post, new to this forum but this is a real help.

My 2005 2.2D avensis has been misfiring with intermittent engine management lights, sometimes showing vsc and abs ? and I've had the car serviced at a Toyota main dealer and they have advised I need the EGR changing and manifold cleaning out.

They initially quoted over £600 for this, but they have dropped this to £530 !

I fail to understand how they have cooked up this price given your excellent info.

I'm a bit of a novice and have not been under a bonnet for a few years, well before fuel injection, but have located the EGR valve.

Apologies for dragging this out,as I am a novice here are the steps I will take, could you advise if I am wrong, forgive my lack of correct terminology.

1.Un clip the electrical cable from the motor type unit labelled Denso.

2.Remove the two female nuts from the unit attached to the manifold - do you then need to loosen off the male nuts.

3.Once the nuts are removed the whole unit should slide off to left, will the attached pipe remove easily enough ?

4.Notice you had removed the motor unit, this has three nuts that require an allen key, are there any pitfalls to removing this and replacing.

5.Clean and replace.

Thanks once again for your post twingo and to the others on the forum who have contributed, even if I decide not to have a crack at this, your post has made their quote for this work look an absolute mockery.

Did you (or anyone else) manage this in the end, and was the above correct? I'm a novice too and am wondering whether I dare try it. It would be very expensive if I made my Avensis undriveable, as it's our only car!

Cheers