Automatic Transmission Problems Rav4 4.2 2002

[trbj]

Hi,

long time since I've been on the forum. Our Rav4 has been performing exellent since we got rid of the engine failure light problems...

However, - we might have a bigger problem now. A couple of weeks ago the transmission started to fail slightly while diving on and off in heavy stuck traffic. Later it has started makin very hard and noisy gearchanges and sometimes at wrong speeds. Recently it also one day refused to get going in first or second and was slippering away in third....

The Toyota dealer locally here in Norway says these gearboxes are very reliable but that they once, - and just once had a similar problem which resulted in the need for changing the "computer" as well as the gearbox...

The car has 92.000 km on the meter an inbetween the gearfailures it runs, and gears, perfekt for a day or half a day..., and whenever one believe the problem has gone away it starts it's noisy business again!

The oil on the gearbox has never been changed...

What do I do? The Toyota guy described the problem that "occured just once" with sympthoms exactly like mine and gave me an estimate of costs in the range of £ 3.000.

Trond

[anchorman]

Welcome to the club.

If it behaves perfectly at times just check the wiring loom which is fastened across the top of the gearbox. They are known to rub through and cause some shorting of the wires. It should be possible to pull them back and tape them up.

Good luck.

[bitman]

in the usa there are problems Toyota Rav 4 transmission problems as this link can tell you. i have changed my gear box oil at 100k miles and those mr t grease monkeys were surprised that i requested it. but it's my car and my money!

bear in mind that in the usa automatics are the norm so there are more problems / knowledge then in the eu...

but first things first do what our guru anchorman writes!

good luck,

bt

[trbj]

Great, - thanks to both of you for excellent advice...!

The car has been parked over Christmas and it will not run untill the cause has been found. I will attach the problem in the order you guys took, - but right now the Rav is covered under 70 cm of snow and we have minus 18 degrees celsius outside! Norway is a cold place....

Have been calling another Toyota dealer and, again, they act as if they are not aware of the ECU problem and just tell me that I'm the only one or one of few with such problem and that the cost is likely to be in the range of £ 3000.- for change of ECU and rebuild of the gearbox. If one hadn't known better one would believe that their refusal to admit that there is an ECU pandemia was organized by Toyota!

Anyhow, as I get the Rav into a warmer place and get started I'd like to know where the ECU is located and how to get the unit out (left hand steeringwheel), - based on bitmans advice I'll change the ECU even if the current problem is in the wiring on the top of the gearbox as explained by anchorman. Also, - is there anybody having experience with Check Engine www.rav4ecm.net ? And is there any other good source for a ECU replacement at acceptable price? I do understand that a new ECU has to be progarmmed / coded to the key and I take it that somebody on the forum has info on how to do that part!?! Thanks in advance!

Trond

[trbj]

Sorry for asking again for details above, - can anybody help me out, - please?

Thanks and happy new year to you all!

Trond

[shcm]

Sorry for asking again for details above, - can anybody help me out, - please?

Thanks and happy new year to you all!

The attached pdfs might help with the ECU location.

partslocation.pdf

ecupinout.pdf

Godt Nytt År

[trbj]

Hi, - thanks for the info!

Checked the wires on top of the gearbox over the weekend and they all looked ok. Drove to see Toyota Oslo today and was received by a very helpful person who offerd help to read faul codes. If I understand correctly the codes were P-7055 and P-7058 and the conclusion was that there is a need to replace the ECU and replace the gearbox. Estimated cost £ 1000 for the ECU, £3500 for the gearbox and £2000 labour. My question was of course how the problem could be related to both the ECU and the gearbox as well as why the gearbox need to be renewed rather than rebuilt. The Toyota representative gave me some quite decent answers to that and my conclusion is that I will proceed to have the ECU replaced or repaired, at least to start with. Since the car today again worked perfect, except for a little hesitance to change gear up to third a couple of times, I would like to think that the gearbox is good enough as soon as I get the ECU working properly. Some other article on the forum indicates that others sucsessfully has pursued the same idea!

shcm gave some good advice as to how to locate the ECU, - under the dash, right hand side I presume, - but how do I find it (behind the plastics?) and how do I get it out? What do I need to take out to get hold of it? From the drawings it looks like it has 5 connectors to it also!

By the way, - does anybody recognize the faul codes? Do they support my plan at all or am I wasting everybodys time dreaming?

Thankful for all possible help, - a total of £6500 seems excessive to spend, - at least in the first place!

Trond

[IanXT4]

Hi

There is a load regarding this "type" of problem on RAV4 World site, someone recommended a specialist ECU repair site in the USA.

It's worth reading the whole thread and seeing if it could be repaired.

(Note I guess the USA version may also be different to the European ?)

The thread is at

http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?...p;&start=60

The recommended repair site is at

http://www.RAV4ECM.net

There is also more info on their post on eBay, they suggest they repair European units as well

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Engine-comp...tiveQ5fServices

"For us numbers is not important, we can fix any unit if it comes off any 2001-2003 Rav4 for any market, not just North American."

Please note I am not recommending this company (proceed with caution) and there may be others in Europe that offer the service, but its worth investigating and possibly emailing them.

Rgds

Ian

[Plutus]

I've read this because I too have an autobox.

I have no technical knowledge but surely common sense says that the first thing you do is to change the oil in the autobox as after this many miles it could be the cause of the problem.

The cheapest option I think.

[IanXT4]

Normally I would agree with you, however if you read the threads there is a known problem with the ECU made between 2001 - 2003.

From the threads I have read if you ignore the ECU problem once it starts, or try to live with it, it can damage the transmission quite quickly.

I think if you have a model year 2001 -2003 its worth getting to know the symptoms

By the time you have changed the fluid, driven it to see if the fault is still there, your transmission may be history :-(

[trbj]

Thanks for the advice and reference to the articles Ian,

I've read it all and deceided to have my ECU repaired. Mailed them and they are now quoting $ 280,-.

Only problem; - HOW DO I GET THE ECU OUT ???

And, by the way, - gearbox oil is still deep red, not black, - thanks God!

Trond

[IanXT4]

Hi

Assuming you still need any docs, For 3 Euros you can get 1 hours access to the Toyota Technical Documents website

http://techdoc.toyota-europe.com/

In one hour you can usually download all the PDF files you are likely to need for this and other jobs.

Make sure you have your VIN number and model number ready, as an hour goes real fast :-)

Good luck and keep us posted on how your fix goes.

Rgds

Ian

[anchorman]

If you drop the glove box down and flip it out (as shown in the instructions for changing the cabin filter), look to the left side and it is on the side of the inner wing. Its a box with about 4 plugs on it. This is for a LHD so yours is opposite;

PCM.pdf

[trbj]

Hi,

once one know how easy it is to flip the glovecompartment out no problem! I wasn't aware of that. And, - by the way, I've got a left hand wheel....

The ECU is well on it's way to Check Engine, Brooklyn, N.Y. for repair at the cost of $ 280,- fixed price, return freight by USPS included.

They say they will perform the repair same day as received and return the unit on the following day!!!

Still do not know if this will solve the entire problem or just the ECU part of it, but I remain hopeful!

Will keep you posted!

Trond

[trbj]

Hi,

got the ECU back from Check Engine today. Took a few more days than I expected since it had to go thru customs etc. Had to pay VAT the on the $ 280,- repair price when picking it up at the post office. Anyhow, - two weeks gone and it's back!

After spending just about 15 minutes putting the unit back and refitting the plastics I started the car, - and guess:

It drives like a dream, - everything works perfect and the gearshifts up and down, kickdowns etc. are all totally smooth and precise just like they should be.

Thinking back, - there is a slight chance that I have had some minor problems for longer than I was aware of, the shifts now feels more like they used to be some time ago, even weeks before I started to actively notice the failures.

Thanks to all of you at the forum who provided all the good help and the guidance which made this possible, - and not least, - thanks to Check Engine for an outstanding service at very acceptable price, - highly recommended! Any owner of a RAV 4 2001-2003 ought to take a note of this possibility to avoid the real big bills when the automatic transmission starts to fail, - a problem which appearently will happen to all of these cars sooner or later...!

Finally, - for some reason the idling speed seems to be much better under control following the repair. In the past it frequently ran at 1500 rpm for quite a while and it seemed to happen kind of randomly, - not really related to temperatur ambient or engine...! It now runs at 1000 rpm and down to 850 rpm after a while, - seems to have adjusted to new, and in my opinion, more confortable levels!

A nice weekend to everybody, - I will be driving my RAV again!

Trond

[anchorman]

Its good to hear success stories!

Well done and congrats on saving a packet by doing it yourself.

[trbj]

Hi,

just to provide an update to all of you that helped me have my ecm repaired early this year:

My Rav4 has now performed excellent for 8 consecutive months and around 10.000 km. Gearshifts are smooth and nice and not one single error has occurred. Talked again, the other day, to the guy at Toyota that quoted me £ 6000,- to repair the car at the time. Told him about the result of my $ 280.- repair which he found interesting. He claimed that they had tried some ecu's with improvements which did not help them very much (!).

I have done some further reasearch today and found that there has been a Toyota Tech bullentin out in 2006 on this matter, - hence they should all have been aware of the problem they tend to deny and "find interesting". Also; - following pressure from the California Air Resources Board it appears that Toyota in august this year accepted to extend their warranty on automatic transmissions and ecm's nationwide USA on nearly a quarter of a million 2001-2003 RA4s. New Toyota policy is 10 years / 15.000 miles warranty for the 235.000 Raw4s in question. Toyota apparently also will accept to reimburse repairbills previously paid for ecm / automatic transmission problems on these cars.

When it comes to Europe it looks different. Toyota seems to lag the US quite a bit. I'd be interested in following up on this and I have allready been approached by other Rav4 owners that have been through the same set of problems and the kind of Toyota response that I had.

Will keep you all updated!

Trond

[pluggen]

trbj: er det mulig å kunne kontakte deg? har en kamerat med akkurat samme problem du hadde her på en rav4 2001 mod. Ser ingen pm funksjon her, derfor må jeg skrive her:)

trbj: is it possible to contact you? have a friend with exactly the same problem you had here in a 2001 RAV4 mod.

[trbj]

trbj: er det mulig å kunne kontakte deg? har en kamerat med akkurat samme problem du hadde her på en rav4 2001 mod. Ser ingen pm funksjon her, derfor må jeg skrive her:)

trbj: is it possible to contact you? have a friend with exactly the same problem you had here in a 2001 RAV4 mod.

Tja, - prøv 90077251

Trond

[larster]

Hi,

long time since I've been on the forum. Our Rav4 has been performing exellent since we got rid of the engine failure light problems...

However, - we might have a bigger problem now. A couple of weeks ago the transmission started to fail slightly while diving on and off in heavy stuck traffic. Later it has started makin very hard and noisy gearchanges and sometimes at wrong speeds. Recently it also one day refused to get going in first or second and was slippering away in third....

The Toyota dealer locally here in Norway says these gearboxes are very reliable but that they once, - and just once had a similar problem which resulted in the need for changing the "computer" as well as the gearbox...

The car has 92.000 km on the meter an inbetween the gearfailures it runs, and gears, perfekt for a day or half a day..., and whenever one believe the problem has gone away it starts it's noisy business again!

The oil on the gearbox has never been changed...

What do I do? The Toyota guy described the problem that "occured just once" with sympthoms exactly like mine and gave me an estimate of costs in the range of £ 3.000.

Trond

[larster]

Hello,

I am also the owner of a Toyota Rav 4 2002 and am experiencing the same problems with transmission gear changing. I´ve been reading all the forums in the U.S.A. and there have been over 250,000 ravs with the same problem. The Americans got together and decided to take Toyota to court on the matter but before going to court, Toyota extended the warranty on the Toyota Rav 4 2001-2004 to 10 years or 150,000 miles and reimbursed all owners who had paid for new transmissions and ECUs. Now,... this is the same car which is sold in the States so why doesn´t this extended warranty apply worldwide or in Europe in my case. I live in Spain. When I spoke to Toyota of Europe and Spain, I was told this extended warranty is not valid here but only in the U.S. I find this quit unfair if not illegal. Is there anything that can be done to make Toyota pick up the bill for my fauly ECU and transmission, along with any other damages this defect could cause? It was proven in the States that Toyota continued to install this same ECU from 2001-2004 even after knowing it was faulty. It seems that Toyota is only granting exceptions to their nº 1 client.

[bitman]

@Trond,

thanks for giving us an update after 8 months

our nrg is now on 100k and is giving the same problems as all others. it was in for the 100k service today and i told them about the transmission problem we just have since 1 week. they didn't even wanted to listen to us and told me oh we don't want to know as its your information :censor:

again it shows that garages are just a bunch of w!"£$%^. well it was also the last time that i ever will attent any garage. i personally don't care about the so called fsh (stemps in the service book) as it doesn't tell any thing really about the vehicles state other then an overpaid grease monkey changed the oil...

anyway back to topic i will send the ecu to new york this or next week and will see.

ta,

bt

[bitman]

Hello,

I am also the owner of a Toyota Rav 4 2002 and am experiencing the same problems with transmission gear changing. I´ve been reading all the forums in the U.S.A. and there have been over 250,000 ravs with the same problem. The Americans got together and decided to take Toyota to court on the matter but before going to court, Toyota extended the warranty on the Toyota Rav 4 2001-2004 to 10 years or 150,000 miles and reimbursed all owners who had paid for new transmissions and ECUs. Now,... this is the same car which is sold in the States so why doesn´t this extended warranty apply worldwide or in Europe in my case. I live in Spain. When I spoke to Toyota of Europe and Spain, I was told this extended warranty is not valid here but only in the U.S. I find this quit unfair if not illegal. Is there anything that can be done to make Toyota pick up the bill for my fauly ECU and transmission, along with any other damages this defect could cause? It was proven in the States that Toyota continued to install this same ECU from 2001-2004 even after knowing it was faulty. It seems that Toyota is only granting exceptions to their nº 1 client.

may be the EU court in brussels?

[trbj]

Hi,

with recent problems coming up in Italy, Spain and now for bitman, I can now also add a friend of mine to the list. His ECM is allready on it's way to Check Engine. However this all is starting to get up my nose. In contact with Toyota here in Norway they are very reluctant to accept the problem and also trying to deny it as a european problem. I have written to them with refernece to the US approach and challenged them to take responsibility for their european customers with an acceptable approach. Pending the outcome of this and their response if any, I will deceide, if necersary, to take an initiative to a follow up.

In most european countries there is a car / automobile association issuing a biweekly or monthly magazine / publication. One idea would be for me to write an article outlining the problem, Toyotas approach in the US and Europe, some examples of Toyotas response to customers facing the problem, plus faximiles of the NY post article and maybe the writeup from Check Engine. The article could be written in english for translation to each of the european languages by volonteering forum participants. Good approach or what??

Again I will await Toyotas response, they may still thake a more concious approach, - they've done that frequently over the recent year, - however typically too late, - i.e. after the damage allready happened!

Trond

[bitman]

if needed i can translate your letter in dutch