Corolla Verso Mmt Problems

[janiej]

Hi

I have only just joined the forum, being a new proud owner (or so I thought) of a Corolla Verso T3 MMT. I have always had Toyota Carinas/Avensis auto gearboxes, with no problems - but this is sending me mad.

There are times, such as approaching a roundabout, turning into a junction or coming down a hill when I have slowed down and then want to accelerate away again. When I put my foot on the accelerator, the car acts as though it has gone into neutral or that the clutch is slipping. I have tried watching the display to see what gear it is in when it does this, but can't see a pattern.

I have tried driving in ES mode but it made it worse.

Also, when in automatic mode, I sometimes get a bleeping noise at low speed but the manual says this happens in manual mode!

Has anyone else had these problems and found a way round them or do you think I should take the car back? I have done 2500 miles.

[barry_pilkington@yahoo.co.uk]

[i have also just joined this forum after having read your entry. I have a new Verso T Spirit MMT with EXACTLY the same problems you describe.

I have major problems at junctions when I try to accelerate into for example a dual carriageway... theere is a delay before the engine/gearbox kicks in and I sometimes have to immediately brake hard as the delay means that oncoming traffic gets too close.

I have already been back to my local Toyota garage and they have arranged for me to test drive another MMT Verso this week for comparison.

i suspect that these problems are to do with the design of the gearbox and not a mechanical/software problem.

If the next car drives the same as mine then I will be writing to Graham Smith, the MD of Toyota GB with a serious complaint.

The service manager at my local garage has been on some sort of Technical seminar recently and has informed me that Toyota are experiencing customer complaints about the MMT gearbox across the UK.

[DavidL]

I have had my Corolla Verso MMT T Spirit for 6 months now and unfortunatly the gearbox does not get better, I just get more frustrated.

The gearbox seems to change gear when it feels like it, usually at the most inconvienient time ie, as mentioned previously, coming up to junctions when it goes into neutral just as you need to accelerate away, going up hills slowly, going down hills, reversing up hills.

I have never managed to get the lift off correct every time although it is better when the car is warmed up. If the car/clutch is cold or damp then prepare for a jumpy ride as there is no clutch slip, it just grabs at each change until it warms up.

The dealers I have spoken to just seem embarrased that Toyota have brought out this MMT option when it should still be in development. Unfortunatly it spoils a good car. :ffs:

My reccomendation buy the manual.

[TonyRay]

We came very close to buying the MMT too, but were put off buy the price. I thought we were missing out, but it seems like Toyota have yet to perfect this new technology.

[GrahamRoy]

Interested to read the comments on the MMT. I too have bought a new Corolla Verso TSpirit with the MMT. Problems I have encountered are

Gearbox switching into manual after pulling out at a junction even though the selector is in E mode

The gearbox switching down to second while travelling on the A1 at 70mph, again the selector was in E mode.

Hopefully the local garage are going to fix it this week.

The garage perfromed the afore mentioned fix. Its better but still problematic.

I live in rural Lincolshire and there is a hill out of the village which I have to use to go to work. Unfortunately, the car constantly jumps from E2 to E3 to E2 to ..... all the way up the hill. I will let the garage know again and see what happens this time.

[DavidL]

I have now had 2 software upgrades and a complete new ECU. The problems are now less than before (I didn't see your issues though).

The most irritating remaining issue is still changing down itself in manual as you approach a junction (this is supposed to happen, even if I don't want it to), if you then floor it as you see a gap in the traffic, expect nothing to happen as the box will be still in the middle of changing down. Can be unnerving if the momentum has you in the middle of the junction with no gear. It would be better if they just removed this "feature" which changes down in manual.

Still also jumps when just started and accelerating as the clutch obvoiusly hasn't warmed up and is still very sticky.

Sounds like they will fix yours upto the same standard as mine is now!

[dubsky]

Sounds like vehicle should be recalled I am trying to get a refund for my duff verso mmt etc. I think everyone should do same. Be warned, vehicle is also prone to throwing itself into neutral and not allowing you to drive the thing at all!! This has happened to me on several occassions even after new 'modified' ecu has been fitted. In my opinion this makes it totally unsafe to drive!!

[DavidL]

Mine is now going in for a new gearbox complete with updated ECU.

Recent problems have been going forwards when put in reverse and a burning smell when reversing up a hill. The problems previously reported are still happening.

Not a happy customer.

The rest of the car is great, just don't buy an MMT version.

[oscario1963]

8 weeks ago we also bought the verso T2 MMT, not happy!!!!!

Having owned toyota's in the past and being time served mechanic I am appalled at Toyota to even offer this car with this gear box!!! I to have also had major problems with this gear box/ECU, it has a mind of it own

I personally think there should be a recall of all Verso's with this box!

the Toyota dealership that sold me the car said it was a demo-model

only to find out when I got the log book that I was the second owner.

Having complained on the 1000 miles service that the gear box and brakes were crap! brakes grabbing when cold, gear box jerking around they said it was normal? the end result of it all was the car ended up in a accident because when i put it in reverse it shot backwards without even touching the accelerator

I have just spoken to the first owner and he used to work for Toyota for 28 years and he said he returned the car to the dealership because after 250 miles the clutch burned out!!!!?????

the end result is I have left the car with RRG Toyota Bolton, I have not been offered a replacement at the same value of the verso bought originally

I have now been offered a Verso T3 Manual for approx £90 more a month on my finance!

Why should the buyers of these cars pay for Toyota's inability to own up to there mistakes!

The car itself has everything we need, which is why I have gone for manual

I am not happy to have to pay more for a car which should have been right from the start i am going to contact RRG Toyota tomorrow and ask them why they sold me a car which they knew already had problems????

or does toyota think that the british buyers of this car are stupid 😞 😞 😞

[gill garry bywater]

Mine is now going in for a new gearbox complete with updated ECU.

Recent problems have been going forwards when put in reverse  and a burning smell when reversing up a hill. The problems previously reported are still happening.

Not a happy customer.

The rest of the car is great, just don't buy an MMT version.

←

[gill garry bywater]

8 weeks ago we also bought the verso T2 MMT, not happy!!!!!

Having owned toyota's in the past and being time served mechanic I am appalled at Toyota to even offer this car with this gear box!!! I to have also had major problems with this gear box/ECU, it has a mind of it own

I personally think there should be a recall of all Verso's with this box!

the Toyota dealership that sold me the car said it was a demo-model

only to find out when I got the log book that I was the second owner.

Having complained on the 1000 miles service that the gear box and brakes were crap! brakes grabbing when cold, gear box jerking around they said it was normal? the end result of it all was the car ended up in a accident because when i put it in reverse it shot backwards without even touching the accelerator

I have just spoken to the first owner and he used to work for Toyota for 28 years and he said he returned the car to the dealership because after 250 miles the clutch burned out!!!!?????

the end result is I have left the car with RRG Toyota Bolton, I have not been offered a replacement at the same value of the verso bought originally

I have now been offered a Verso T3 Manual for approx £90 more a month on my finance!

Why should the buyers of these cars pay for Toyota's inability to own up to there mistakes!

The car itself has everything we need, which is why I have gone for manual

I am not happy to have to pay more for a car which should have been right from the start i am going to contact RRG Toyota tomorrow and ask them why they sold me a car which they knew already had problems????

or does toyota think that the british buyers of this car are stupid

←

[spwolfx]

well, it is an manual box that tries to act like automatic. It really isnt perfect.

I have just driven Yaris MMT and it was actually fine. You have to realize it is not real automatic, you have to work with it in order for it to be smooth and nice. It is certainly not as smooth as an real automatic or cvt, but then again it is cheaper, gets better mileage and doesnt lose any power.

And to the last poster - actually all automatics move when it gear, this is by design and not fault of T, but of yourself :-), sorry to say that. I am sure you even had to have your foot on brakes before changing to R, right? they you lifted your foot and....... sucks I know, but thats how every automatic works.

Toyota is offering them on all new Yaris engine configurations, so I doubt they are getting many warranty issues on them. I just make sure to explain to the customer that it is not an real automatic, with both goods and bads.

[kleen]

It's a shame to see that the MMT ruins your impression of a fantastic car. Luckily i'd read the horror stories before making my purchase of a manual T180! I agree that if it is as bad as you should say then anyone buying these should be rejecting the car and demanding a replacement (non MMT!) from their dealers.

[Red Yaris 54]

I have owned a Yaris MMT for the past 18 months and have not found any problems as described by most of the Verso owners in this thread.

I find the MMT gearbox to be smooth, very easy to get on with and totally faultless.

Perhaps it comes down to driving technique or maybe the MMT system is not so suitable for the larger engined Verso.

I agree with spwolfx that all autos (including MMT) will move when in gear if the foot is not on the brake.

Maybe Toyota could give some of the new owners of MMT a few lessons in how to drive with the MMT box ;)

Did none of you test drive them BEFORE buying?

[GrahamRoy]

Dear Red Yaris

you have asked many questions here in your reply to this session. My own experiences with Toyota over the last few years are as follows:-

I owned a Toyota Picnic auto before the Verso and never had any problems with it. It was the smoothest Automatic gearbox I have ever owned and was the main reason I chose to buy a new Toyota.

Your comment on driving technique is an interesting comment, questioning peoples driving techniques can cause a few raised eyebrows and often gets emotions rising but I take the point you are trying to get across. I have tried driving my Verso in differing ways to see how the gearbox reacts.

If I try to drive "gently" the car is at its worst with unpredictable up and down gear changes made by the computorised selector at random.

If I take a "middle of the road" approach, not down the white line i must add the car behaves at its best, however, I still have had a few nightmares, the worst of which is the car deciding to go in to neutral after pulling out from a T junction and refusing to select a gear eventhough the selector was tried in "E" and "M" postions. A software reboot by the local Toyota garage seemed to do the trick.

If I drive the car in lets accelerate as fast as I can mode the car does seem to select gears well although gear changing is jerky.

I am not to worried about a car moving forward or backwards when releasing the brakes on the car. On any car the brakes should be applied unless you want to move.

I did try test driving the Verso when I purchased it, however, test drives are never long enough to show problems such as this.

I have gleaned some technical bits from my local Toyota garage and have added my own experiences to it:-

The Verso MMT gearbox is not an automatic gearbox in the true sense. It is a manual gearbox with a computorised selection system. The MMT gearbox shares many of the same componenets as the full manual gearbox. The differences I know of is that the MMT has a different casting on the bottom of the gearbox which house a servo positional system for the clutch activation and gear selection mechanisms. The servo motors are controlled by an ECU which selects gears on a multidimensional mapped software process. The ECU takes signals from accelerator, road speed, ambient temperature, engine revs, brake pedal etc and makes its mind up which gear it should be in. You will alll be pleased to know that the sensors on these systems are duplex so a failure in one sensor does not stop the car from working and the garage can replace at next oportunity. Unfortunatley mapped parameters cans be extremely difficult to get right, I work in software controls for an OEM and have found this out several times, and even with the latest AI techniques can still be difficult to get smooth transistions across boudaries. I imagine that Toyota have adpated a system similar to this and it is the boudary area crossing which will instigates a gear change in the MMT box.

Now for the good news.

I have talked at length with the Chief Mechanic at my local garage who have been of great help and the customer service is everything you would expect of a Toyota main dealer. He has been in contact with the head of the MMT team and has indicated that there should be future software upgrades to the MMT software. Hopefully I should receive these free of charge.

[Red Yaris 54]

Hello GrahamRoy,

My comments on driving technique were not intended to cause any upset, mearly a suggestion towards a potential answer to the problem, and to share my experience of the MMT System, albeit on the Yaris.

I do appreciate that the MMT is based on a standard manual gearbox but the clever bit is the computerised selector system, which hopefully Toyota will be able to sort out to your satisfaction. (If they can do it on the Yaris without problems, they should be able to do it with the Verso)

Isn't technology wonderful?.................for instance the simple thermos flask has the ability to keep things hot or cold.............but how does it know if it should be hot OR cold? ;) :D

[Ricky T]

Hello janiej;

Got the same problems with the MMT gearbox. Driving on a duel carriage way and slowing down towards a ropundabut and the gear slip and came to a sudden hault. Restart the car for about 5 minutes before I can get in gear again. Write to your dealer and Toyota Customer Servcies. Ricky

Hi

I have only just joined the forum, being a new proud owner (or so I thought) of a Corolla Verso T3 MMT. I have always had Toyota Carinas/Avensis auto gearboxes, with no problems - but this is sending me mad.

There are times, such as approaching a roundabout, turning into a junction or coming down a hill when I have slowed down and then want to accelerate away again. When I put my foot on the accelerator, the car acts as though it has gone into neutral or that the clutch is slipping. I have tried watching the display to see what gear it is in when it does this, but can't see a pattern.

I have tried driving in ES mode but it made it worse.

Also, when in automatic mode, I sometimes get a bleeping noise at low speed but the manual says this happens in manual mode!

Has anyone else had these problems and found a way round them or do you think I should take the car back? I have done 2500 miles.

[Ricky T]

Lets all call Watchdog at the BBC and let them know of our problems. May BEToyota will recall all the mmt CARS. i HAVE GOT THE SAME PROBLEMS AS YOU. ANDAFTER READING SITES SUCH AS wHATCAR? wE ARE ALL THE SAME.

8 weeks ago we also bought the verso T2 MMT, not happy!!!!!

Having owned toyota's in the past and being time served mechanic I am appalled at Toyota to even offer this car with this gear box!!! I to have also had major problems with this gear box/ECU, it has a mind of it own

I personally think there should be a recall of all Verso's with this box!

the Toyota dealership that sold me the car said it was a demo-model

only to find out when I got the log book that I was the second owner.

Having complained on the 1000 miles service that the gear box and brakes were crap! brakes grabbing when cold, gear box jerking around they said it was normal? the end result of it all was the car ended up in a accident because when i put it in reverse it shot backwards without even touching the accelerator

I have just spoken to the first owner and he used to work for Toyota for 28 years and he said he returned the car to the dealership because after 250 miles the clutch burned out!!!!?????

the end result is I have left the car with RRG Toyota Bolton, I have not been offered a replacement at the same value of the verso bought originally

I have now been offered a Verso T3 Manual for approx £90 more a month on my finance!

Why should the buyers of these cars pay for Toyota's inability to own up to there mistakes!

The car itself has everything we need, which is why I have gone for manual

I am not happy to have to pay more for a car which should have been right from the start i am going to contact RRG Toyota tomorrow and ask them why they sold me a car which they knew already had problems????

or does toyota think that the british buyers of this car are stupid

←

[sandereo]

Hi

I have only just joined the forum, being a new proud owner (or so I thought) of a Corolla Verso T3 MMT. I have always had Toyota Carinas/Avensis auto gearboxes, with no problems - but this is sending me mad.

There are times, such as approaching a roundabout, turning into a junction or coming down a hill when I have slowed down and then want to accelerate away again. When I put my foot on the accelerator, the car acts as though it has gone into neutral or that the clutch is slipping. I have tried watching the display to see what gear it is in when it does this, but can't see a pattern.

I have tried driving in ES mode but it made it worse.

Also, when in automatic mode, I sometimes get a bleeping noise at low speed but the manual says this happens in manual mode!

Has anyone else had these problems and found a way round them or do you think I should take the car back? I have done 2500 miles.

Hi all -

Why do so many people opt for an auto box? What's wrong with a manual?

Auto boxes for one loose power, are more expensive and it doesn't give you full control over the car/ engine anyway.

Erwin

[Red Yaris 54]

Hi all -

Why do so many people opt for an auto box? What's wrong with a manual?

Auto boxes for one loose power, are more expensive and it doesn't give you full control over the car/ engine anyway.

Erwin

Hi Erwin,

I think that you are mistaking the MMT transmission for the conventional automatic gearbox with torque converters and brake bands etc. These did loose power and were not at all economical.

The MMT system is in fact a manual gearbox connected to a computer controlled selector system which allows the driver to drive in fully auto mode or to use a sequential gearshift system (Not dissimilar to that of Formula 1 cars).

The MMT system is slightly more economical with fuel than the comparative manual models.

From my personal experience of driving the MMT Yaris, full control of the car/engine is present at all times,.........unlike that of a conventional automatic.

I drive the MMT through choice as I hold a full manual licence and have owned/driven many manual and automatic cars for many years, although some people are restricted to MMT as they only hold an "Automatic" licence.

[R Tang]

Thank You Red Yaris 54. Also to back you up, some drivers are elderly and disabled. Driving in London is a nightmare and so a MMt and auto is the only best options. It is only £550 more so it does not cost as much as a conventional auto box.

On a different matter re: MMT problems, I am taking my car to my dealer for the second time to fix the problem. Have spoken to the service manager and Toyota GB. Will keep every one informed.

Ricky T

Hi all -

Why do so many people opt for an auto box? What's wrong with a manual?

Auto boxes for one loose power, are more expensive and it doesn't give you full control over the car/ engine anyway.

Erwin

Hi Erwin,

I think that you are mistaking the MMT transmission for the conventional automatic gearbox with torque converters and brake bands etc. These did loose power and were not at all economical.

The MMT system is in fact a manual gearbox connected to a computer controlled selector system which allows the driver to drive in fully auto mode or to use a sequential gearshift system (Not dissimilar to that of Formula 1 cars).

The MMT system is slightly more economical with fuel than the comparative manual models.

From my personal experience of driving the MMT Yaris, full control of the car/engine is present at all times,.........unlike that of a conventional automatic.

I drive the MMT through choice as I hold a full manual licence and have owned/driven many manual and automatic cars for many years, although some people are restricted to MMT as they only hold an "Automatic" licence.

[Mickey]

Hi everyone. Don't want to upset you guys who are clearly unhappy with the MMT but I love mine !!! Had it for a few weeks now and have got used to the feel as you go through the gears. It seems to me that the more careful you are (trying to get to the smoothness of my old Auto Picnic) the more you feel the gearchanges. All of those of you who are considering MMT take a terst drive first for sure ....... but don't be put off too much ..... I think it's great !! :)

[Red Yaris 54]

Hi everyone. Don't want to upset you guys who are clearly unhappy with the MMT but I love mine !!! Had it for a few weeks now and have got used to the feel as you go through the gears. It seems to me that the more careful you are (trying to get to the smoothness of my old Auto Picnic) the more you feel the gearchanges. All of those of you who are considering MMT take a terst drive first for sure ....... but don't be put off too much ..... I think it's great !! :)

Welcome to TOC Mickey................I totally agree with what you say and believe MMT is the way forward

[R Tang]

Hi everyone. Don't want to upset you guys who are clearly unhappy with the MMT but I love mine !!! Had it for a few weeks now and have got used to the feel as you go through the gears. It seems to me that the more careful you are (trying to get to the smoothness of my old Auto Picnic) the more you feel the gearchanges. All of those of you who are considering MMT take a terst drive first for sure ....... but don't be put off too much ..... I think it's great !! :)

Dear Mickey and Red Yaris

I totally agree with you both-MMT is cheaper and more ecomical to run. BUT IT IS NOT VERY RELAIBLE AS YOU CAN SEE AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED! All I can say is good luck to you both. My gearbox did not play up until 15,000 miles. By then I hope both of your cars would have been recalled or that Watchdog has made a programme about the inefficiencies of Toyota GB. Getting stuck in Neutral driving at a high speed isn't fun at all-in fact !Removed! dangerous! My car is in a NW London Dealer and they can't find the fault as it does not occur all the time. My friends Verso MMT T Spirit had its CLUTCH ACTIVATOR AND FOLK changed as well as the ECU. If any of my MMT friends here have any suggestion on what the Dealer should do, please let me know. Also if there is any one I can contact at the Head Office? Many thanks.

Ricky T

[Red Yaris 54]

Hi everyone. Don't want to upset you guys who are clearly unhappy with the MMT but I love mine !!! Had it for a few weeks now and have got used to the feel as you go through the gears. It seems to me that the more careful you are (trying to get to the smoothness of my old Auto Picnic) the more you feel the gearchanges. All of those of you who are considering MMT take a terst drive first for sure ....... but don't be put off too much ..... I think it's great !! :)

Dear Mickey and Red Yaris

I totally agree with you both-MMT is cheaper and more ecomical to run. BUT IT IS NOT VERY RELAIBLE AS YOU CAN SEE AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED! All I can say is good luck to you both. My gearbox did not play up until 15,000 miles. By then I hope both of your cars would have been recalled or that Watchdog has made a programme about the inefficiencies of Toyota GB. Getting stuck in Neutral driving at a high speed isn't fun at all-in fact bloody dangerous! My car is in a NW London Dealer and they can't find the fault as it does not occur all the time. My friends Verso MMT T Spirit had its CLUTCH ACTIVATOR AND FOLK changed as well as the ECU. If any of my MMT friends here have any suggestion on what the Dealer should do, please let me know. Also if there is any one I can contact at the Head Office? Many thanks.

Ricky T

Ricky,

My Yaris MMT is approaching 20,000 miles with no problems.

It seems that Toyota have got it right with the Yaris, but appear to have some problems with the Verso MMT system.

This was confirmed by the salesman at my local Toyota dealer who tells me they have sold loads of the New Yaris with MMT boxes but not many Versos