Rattle / Resonance In 5th Gear Between 2500+3000 Rpm

[Kuzzer]

Problem description:

I have a gear stick rattling / resonance problem on my RAV4 (D4D 2004 Model). This rattling / resonance happens ONLY under the following conditions:

(1) I am accelerating (doesn't happen on the way back down with foot off the gas)

(2) Comes on about 2500 RPM and goes after about 3000 RPM

(3) Only happens in 5th gear

If I push the gear stick slightly forward as this happens, the rattling stops.

This problem has got progressively worse over the last 9 months . . . and I'm starting to think this isn't just a random resonance problem, but that it's something more fundamental . . .

Can anyone help / point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance.

Kuzzer

[dave.m]

Hi mate, I also had this problem on my last Rav, a 4.2 like yours. Like you say if you touch the gearstick it goes away (think I may have done thread on this)

Anyway I never got to the bottom of it as I changed to a newer model, but I allways suspected it was one of the cables. The gearchange is done by cables, maybe

one getting a bit of play and vibrating off bodywork / dash or whatever. Anchorman may be able to advise further. Good luck

[anchorman]

Hi Kuzzer

Its hard to say without seeing it but the cables are adjustable and will transmit engine vibrations if they are out of adjustment. However if you remove the gaiter like this;

You can look if there appears to be a lot of play in either the cable ends or the gearstick mount (both of which can be seen here;

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x133/an.../IMG_1119-1.jpg

If you are brave enough you can pullit apart and check it for wear. Packing a worn joint will provide a temorary cure which might allow you to check if something needs replacing. I haven't got any photos of the RAV cables at the gearbox but I have of my old Corolla which are very similar;

They are at the back with the red dots on. Check the cable ends for wear and all the associated brackets for tightness.

One cable adjusts fore and aft and the other side to side. If you do fiddle with the adjustment mark the cables very clearly as you can get in a right muddle with them. They should not be out of adjustment unless they are very worn or somebody has already been playing with them.

The last consideration is that if an engine mounting has gone there will be excessive vibration and there is one other source but that should be giving other symptoms as well - DMF! If you don't think there is excessive engine vibration concentrate your investigation on the cables etc above.

You can fathom what does what so hopefully with this lot you can get to the bottom of it.

Cheers

PS please let us know what you find for future reference

[phildr]

This is exactly how my 4.2 started playing up - before it totally lost 5th gear. Mind you it took a couple of years before it went - and all the while Main dealer insisted that "this is consistent with the age and mileage of the vehicle"

Good luck - hope its not the same for you in the end..

In the meantime I will attempt a repair of my gearbox in July/August - will post results when I get there.

Phil

[Kuzzer]

Thanks, guys, for comments to date.

So - they did a road test a few weeks ago, and due to my diary I finally put it in for repair last week. They've improved the situation somewhat - i.e. the rattle is not so loud any more - but the underlying problem remains, so it's got to go back in for another look. The Toyota people are being very cagey about what the problem might be / is . . . which is not inspiring confidence - although they have agreed to extend my warranty to cover this issue (ran out in December 07).

Fingers crossed, and I'll keep all updated on progress or otherwise.

Kuzzer

[phildr]

As promised..

I have repaired my 5th gear problem (it used to keep popping out). This involved replacing the sleeve and the actual 5th gear, as well as the components that make up the synchronizer mechanism.

It is now extremely smooth - no rattles or vibrations - I think better than when I first bought the car..

I have also noticed that shifting into other gears especially reverse is now much smoother - without that notchy feeling.. This could be down to the new gearbox oil that I put in.

On a scale of 1 - 10 this job is about 5 in complexity, and the only special tools I needed was a puller (I used a harmonic balancer puller) - though I had to buy the m8 bolts that attached the puller to the synchro hub. These are standard HT M8s with a standard thread pitch (I obtained these at Halfords).

The pusher (to push the hub back on) was fashioned out of a large socket - plus 2 ring spanners, a M12 bolt (100mm) with a fine thread pitch (1.5mm). The two spanners were used as spacers on the pusher as the M12 bolt's thread length was about 30mm only.

Total time to do this job was about 6 hours all in - could be done quicker I guess but this was my first time.

The information in http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8866 is valid for my model (RAV 4.2) - the gearbox looks identical.

The only brainy bit that I had to worry about was putting the synchroniser back together - I used the exploded diagrams of the gearbox components that anchorman kindly pointed me at to help me here.

When I looked at the replacement parts (Thanks Kingo! ) and compared them to what I pulled out of the gear box the only visible difference I could see was between the gear teeth patterns on the 5th gear and the sleeve. These were quite different - and could be down to wear.

I dont believe the synchro hub was the problem here - the components (Rings springs etc all looked fine) - however I changed these as well.

I think I saved about £400 in labour.

I took some pictures (of my pusher) as well as pictures that look like those on the site above..I can post those as well if anyone is interested.

This is the parts list I used:

T08826-00090 C106 SEAL PACKING (gasket maker)

T33336-42030 N/STK FIFTH GEAR

T90364-28023 N/STK NEEDEL BEARING

T33397-28010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33396-28010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33395-42010 N/STK TRANS.HUB&SLEE

T90179-20012 N/STK NUT

T33398-12010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33393-42010 N/STK TRANS.HUB&SLEE

T33399-12011 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33392-12010 Q1074 SPRING, SHFTING

T33392-12020 Q1074 SPRING, SHFTING

-phil

[anchorman]

As promised..

I have repaired my 5th gear problem (it used to keep popping out). This involved replacing the sleeve and the actual 5th gear, as well as the components that make up the synchronizer mechanism.

It is now extremely smooth - no rattles or vibrations - I think better than when I first bought the car..

I have also noticed that shifting into other gears especially reverse is now much smoother - without that notchy feeling.. This could be down to the new gearbox oil that I put in.

On a scale of 1 - 10 this job is about 5 in complexity, and the only special tools I needed was a puller (I used a harmonic balancer puller) - though I had to buy the m8 bolts that attached the puller to the synchro hub. These are standard HT M8s with a standard thread pitch (I obtained these at Halfords).

The pusher (to push the hub back on) was fashioned out of a large socket - plus 2 ring spanners, a M12 bolt (100mm) with a fine thread pitch (1.5mm). The two spanners were used as spacers on the pusher as the M12 bolt's thread length was about 30mm only.

Total time to do this job was about 6 hours all in - could be done quicker I guess but this was my first time.

The information in http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8866 is valid for my model (RAV 4.2) - the gearbox looks identical.

The only brainy bit that I had to worry about was putting the synchroniser back together - I used the exploded diagrams of the gearbox components that anchorman kindly pointed me at to help me here.

When I looked at the replacement parts (Thanks Kingo! ) and compared them to what I pulled out of the gear box the only visible difference I could see was between the gear teeth patterns on the 5th gear and the sleeve. These were quite different - and could be down to wear.

I dont believe the synchro hub was the problem here - the components (Rings springs etc all looked fine) - however I changed these as well.

I think I saved about £400 in labour.

I took some pictures (of my pusher) as well as pictures that look like those on the site above..I can post those as well if anyone is interested.

This is the parts list I used:

T08826-00090 C106 SEAL PACKING (gasket maker)

T33336-42030 N/STK FIFTH GEAR

T90364-28023 N/STK NEEDEL BEARING

T33397-28010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33396-28010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33395-42010 N/STK TRANS.HUB&SLEE

T90179-20012 N/STK NUT

T33398-12010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33393-42010 N/STK TRANS.HUB&SLEE

T33399-12011 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33392-12010 Q1074 SPRING, SHFTING

T33392-12020 Q1074 SPRING, SHFTING

-phil

It would be nice to have our own pictorial if you have enough photos of the process. We could then get it pinned.

Please accept a humungous pat on the back for doing it yourself!

[shutty]

Unscrew the gear knob off and run without it on, If it fixes it, post back & i will tell you what to do

[paul duffy]

Unscrew the gear knob off and run without it on, If it fixes it, post back & i will tell you what to do

hi i had this problem with the rattle and yesterday it started jumping out of 5th gear do you have any suggestions on how to solve this problem . cheers .... it is a 2002 rav 4 d-4d diesel

[bothwell_buyer]

I assume your last post shows the problem is worse?

[anchorman]

Unscrew the gear knob off and run without it on, If it fixes it, post back & i will tell you what to do

hi i had this problem with the rattle and yesterday it started jumping out of 5th gear do you have any suggestions on how to solve this problem . cheers .... it is a 2002 rav 4 d-4d diesel

Err.......

........this thread tells you what to do. It says above.

Good luck.

[bothwell_buyer]

Unscrew the gear knob off and run without it on, If it fixes it, post back & i will tell you what to do

hi i had this problem with the rattle and yesterday it started jumping out of 5th gear do you have any suggestions on how to solve this problem . cheers .... it is a 2002 rav 4 d-4d diesel

Err.......

........this thread tells you what to do. It says above.

Good luck.

Oi!

stop trying to spoil my takeover of the RAV4 forum front page!!

[anchorman]

Unscrew the gear knob off and run without it on, If it fixes it, post back & i will tell you what to do

hi i had this problem with the rattle and yesterday it started jumping out of 5th gear do you have any suggestions on how to solve this problem . cheers .... it is a 2002 rav 4 d-4d diesel

Err.......

........this thread tells you what to do. It says above.

Good luck.

Oi!

stop trying to spoil my takeover of the RAV4 forum front page!!

I thought you wre bored and wanted some company!!!

[bothwell_buyer]

Unscrew the gear knob off and run without it on, If it fixes it, post back & i will tell you what to do

hi i had this problem with the rattle and yesterday it started jumping out of 5th gear do you have any suggestions on how to solve this problem . cheers .... it is a 2002 rav 4 d-4d diesel

Err.......

........this thread tells you what to do. It says above.

Good luck.

Oi!

stop trying to spoil my takeover of the RAV4 forum front page!!

I thought you wre bored and wanted some company!!!

you could try logging on as bothwell_buyer2 ???

[wexreb]

Hi there.

Your problem was EXACTLy the same as mine. I took my vehicle back to the dealers on a number of occasions and all manner of things were tried and failed.

However, I have just got it back (third time) and it is cured. It was the bushes at the cable end that had too much play on them. replaced the bushes and hey presto........ a nice quiet drive.

Ben

(Loving my Rav again)

Problem description:

I have a gear stick rattling / resonance problem on my RAV4 (D4D 2004 Model). This rattling / resonance happens ONLY under the following conditions:

(1) I am accelerating (doesn't happen on the way back down with foot off the gas)

(2) Comes on about 2500 RPM and goes after about 3000 RPM

(3) Only happens in 5th gear

If I push the gear stick slightly forward as this happens, the rattling stops.

This problem has got progressively worse over the last 9 months . . . and I'm starting to think this isn't just a random resonance problem, but that it's something more fundamental . . .

Can anyone help / point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance.

Kuzzer

[anchorman]

Hi there.

Your problem was EXACTLy the same as mine. I took my vehicle back to the dealers on a number of occasions and all manner of things were tried and failed.

However, I have just got it back (third time) and it is cured. It was the bushes at the cable end that had too much play on them. replaced the bushes and hey presto........ a nice quiet drive.

Ben

(Loving my Rav again)

Problem description:

I have a gear stick rattling / resonance problem on my RAV4 (D4D 2004 Model). This rattling / resonance happens ONLY under the following conditions:

(1) I am accelerating (doesn't happen on the way back down with foot off the gas)

(2) Comes on about 2500 RPM and goes after about 3000 RPM

(3) Only happens in 5th gear

If I push the gear stick slightly forward as this happens, the rattling stops.

This problem has got progressively worse over the last 9 months . . . and I'm starting to think this isn't just a random resonance problem, but that it's something more fundamental . . .

Can anyone help / point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance.

Kuzzer

Good info Ben

Do you have any details? Which bushes/part Nos etc?

It may help in the future.

Cheers

[Tech01]

As promised..

I have repaired my 5th gear problem (it used to keep popping out). This involved replacing the sleeve and the actual 5th gear, as well as the components that make up the synchronizer mechanism.

It is now extremely smooth - no rattles or vibrations - I think better than when I first bought the car..

I have also noticed that shifting into other gears especially reverse is now much smoother - without that notchy feeling.. This could be down to the new gearbox oil that I put in.

On a scale of 1 - 10 this job is about 5 in complexity, and the only special tools I needed was a puller (I used a harmonic balancer puller) - though I had to buy the m8 bolts that attached the puller to the synchro hub. These are standard HT M8s with a standard thread pitch (I obtained these at Halfords).

The pusher (to push the hub back on) was fashioned out of a large socket - plus 2 ring spanners, a M12 bolt (100mm) with a fine thread pitch (1.5mm). The two spanners were used as spacers on the pusher as the M12 bolt's thread length was about 30mm only.

Total time to do this job was about 6 hours all in - could be done quicker I guess but this was my first time.

The information in http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8866 is valid for my model (RAV 4.2) - the gearbox looks identical.

The only brainy bit that I had to worry about was putting the synchroniser back together - I used the exploded diagrams of the gearbox components that anchorman kindly pointed me at to help me here.

When I looked at the replacement parts (Thanks Kingo! ) and compared them to what I pulled out of the gear box the only visible difference I could see was between the gear teeth patterns on the 5th gear and the sleeve. These were quite different - and could be down to wear.

I dont believe the synchro hub was the problem here - the components (Rings springs etc all looked fine) - however I changed these as well.

I think I saved about £400 in labour.

I took some pictures (of my pusher) as well as pictures that look like those on the site above..I can post those as well if anyone is interested.

This is the parts list I used:

T08826-00090 C106 SEAL PACKING (gasket maker)

T33336-42030 N/STK FIFTH GEAR

T90364-28023 N/STK NEEDEL BEARING

T33397-28010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33396-28010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33395-42010 N/STK TRANS.HUB&SLEE

T90179-20012 N/STK NUT

T33398-12010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33393-42010 N/STK TRANS.HUB&SLEE

T33399-12011 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33392-12010 Q1074 SPRING, SHFTING

T33392-12020 Q1074 SPRING, SHFTING

-phil

It would be nice to have our own pictorial if you have enough photos of the process. We could then get it pinned.

Please accept a humungous pat on the back for doing it yourself!

I've had the annoying gear lever buzz in 5th (only). It started about 18 months ago, and slowly became a hammering rattle, which no amount of light finger pressure on the gearstick would prevent. Following various folks' advice, I checked over the gear cables and their rubber bushing, and found no problem. I re-greased the gear lever's ball/socket and joint mechanism, and removed and greased up all the swivels and balljoints at the gearbox end of the shift cables (the bell-crank mechanism). This produced a small degree of muting, but no cure. The gearstick vibration continued, worst at full throttle and at 100-120kph (60-75mph), always and only in 5th.

I concluded that I had a worn Fifth Gear (the subject of TSB WS-3002, Dec.2003), and last week replaced the complete 5th gear cluster. The parts list above was right for my 2003 4.2, except for the second item: 33364-42020, instead of 33364-42030. (Also, Nut 90179-20012, I found I didn't need, as it wasn't necessary to remove the layshaft-mounted gear.)

The job has been helpfully photographed at:

rav4world.com/forums/85-4-1-faults-fixes/64188-5th-gear-popping-out-self-repair.html

All in, about a four hour job, the only fiddly bit being the assembly of the synchro components. It is essential to make up a disc or plate puller, as suggested, to remove the gear assembly (after first tapping away the thick circlip on the shaft end). Do not try to use a hooked puller on the gear cluster assembly: it’s a very snug fit on the splined shaft, and you’ll break something if you try. Make up a puller, and use the three threaded holes with three suitable bolts. I know you’re going to replace all the bits, but, if they break up and fall out, you’ll never know what goes where. I speak from experience here!

Refilled the box with 75W-80 (has always worked for me, and far better changes than with 75W-90), and it drives and shifts like new. No vibration whatsoever, and a nice positively-located feel to fifth gear.

My local Toyota (main agent) mechanics (Malaga, Spain) say they have replaced countless fifth gear assemblies, on RAVs from late ‘90s onwards. New parts “always” cure the problem, they tell me.

Cost of parts was 658 Euro, plus vat.

It looks to me as if a buzzing gear lever is very likely an early-warning for a fifth gear wear problem of failure waiting to happen. By all means check the cable lubrication (both ends) and bushing, but don’t hold your breath.

Chris

[anchorman]

Good info Chris - well done.

[johntynycoed]

The failure of 5th gear was totally without warning, no vibration , no gearbox whine, just jumped out one day as I was changing up to 5th, I thought I'd fluffed it,but no. I went through all the options, second hand replacement box, find a gearbox specialist to repair it, get Toyota to fix it and even trade it in via Toyota. In the end I went for repair by Toyota who wanted £900 inc vat. A lot of money but probably only about £250 -300 more than the other options and some warranty. I checked a couple of other Toyota dealers also,one was quoting £950 and the other had never heard of this problem and wanted 12 hour-at almost £80 per hour- to run a diagnosis!

The repair was done by my main dealer in Llandudno Junction and the invoice broke down as follows:

REBUILD FIFTH GEAR £125

FIFTH GEAR T33336-42020 120.54

SPRING SHFTNG T33392-12010 2.97

SPRING SHFTNG T33392-12020 1.07

TRANS.HUB&SLEEV T33393-42010 70.40

TRANS.HUB&SLEEV T33395-42012 63.85

SYNCHRO-RING T33396-28010 45.67

SYNCHRO-RING T33397-28010 40.72

SYNCHRO-RING T33398-12010 36.61

SYNCHRO-RING T33399-12011 46.43

LAY SHAFT T33428-42020 99.76

NUT T90179-20012 5.09

NEEDLE BEARING T90364-28023 40.80

CIRCLIP T90520-46035 2.76

The cost of these parts was £451.67 plus VAT which seems to compare quite well with the euro 658 that Phildr paid especially as a layshaft was also replaced-£100 all but. However what really amazed me was the labour cost in this gearbox rebuild which was only £125 which at the nearly £80 an hour for labour that main dealers charge means that the job was done in a speedy one and a half hours. Not only that but I got a bill for less than the £900 quote, £842 to be exact. So I think I probably made the right decision although I'm sure it's possible to argue that not all the parts above would have been necessary, would the lay shaft have needed replacing for example or was that belt and braces by Toyota, they have given a 1 year warranty after all.

[Grumpy stumpy]

Wow, that's a lot of money. I done mine myself using chris's help in previous posts. Genuine toyota parts I sourced direct from Japan and with import duty,s and delivery charges parts came in at less than £250.00. Job took less than three hours start to finish, but there was no need to change the lay shaft so not sure why they did on yours but least you have a warranty so worth it I suppose. Mine has now done 20,000 miles since I done it and fingers crossed seems ok still.