Brake Pedal Eventually Touches The Floor

[Paul99]

Hi,

Avensis Jan 07, 2.0 D4D TX3. If I keep steady firm pressure on the brake pedal, it eventually touches the floor after about 20 seconds. Apart from this, the brakes seem to work properly, they passed a recent MOT with no problems and in the recent snowy weather, the ABS seemed to work when I expected it to. I mentioned this to my local Toyota main dealer when it went for its 30,000 mile interim service, they said the brake fluid would need changing anyway (every two years) and on inspection the front pads needed changing (normal wear). After the service, the pedal is still the same. Has anybody else experienced this, or know a cure, or doesn't it matter?

Thanks

[smallesttrade]

Hi,

Avensis Jan 07, 2.0 D4D TX3. If I keep steady firm pressure on the brake pedal, it eventually touches the floor after about 20 seconds. Apart from this, the brakes seem to work properly, they passed a recent MOT with no problems and in the recent snowy weather, the ABS seemed to work when I expected it to. I mentioned this to my local Toyota main dealer when it went for its 30,000 mile interim service, they said the brake fluid would need changing anyway (every two years) and on inspection the front pads needed changing (normal wear). After the service, the pedal is still the same. Has anybody else experienced this, or know a cure, or doesn't it matter?

Thanks

Have you physically checked the brake fluid level? Air in the brake lines possible? Should not go anywhere near the floor.

[igormus]

Hi,

Avensis Jan 07, 2.0 D4D TX3. If I keep steady firm pressure on the brake pedal, it eventually touches the floor after about 20 seconds. Apart from this, the brakes seem to work properly, they passed a recent MOT with no problems and in the recent snowy weather, the ABS seemed to work when I expected it to. I mentioned this to my local Toyota main dealer when it went for its 30,000 mile interim service, they said the brake fluid would need changing anyway (every two years) and on inspection the front pads needed changing (normal wear). After the service, the pedal is still the same. Has anybody else experienced this, or know a cure, or doesn't it matter?

Thanks

hi mate

whether or not you ve checked with possible leaks from each wheels cylinder?

i would deem the air is still in the system. even though the liquid serves you more than 2 years -- this can not be compressed like you have compression effect now. the other issue might be with master cylinder plunger seals. Cheers/Igor

[t-spiritpete]

Hi,

Avensis Jan 07, 2.0 D4D TX3. If I keep steady firm pressure on the brake pedal, it eventually touches the floor after about 20 seconds. Apart from this, the brakes seem to work properly, they passed a recent MOT with no problems and in the recent snowy weather, the ABS seemed to work when I expected it to. I mentioned this to my local Toyota main dealer when it went for its 30,000 mile interim service, they said the brake fluid would need changing anyway (every two years) and on inspection the front pads needed changing (normal wear). After the service, the pedal is still the same. Has anybody else experienced this, or know a cure, or doesn't it matter?

Thanks

Hi Paul, Ive been involved with vehicles all my life and I would agree with the other replies but .............. just been out and checked mine and it is exactly the same !!!! this goes against all my experience, but could this be normal????

I can't wait for more replies from others whom I hope will try their cars and reply back. By the way my car has new discs and pads and has had the brake fluid changed recently but even if it hadn't any water that the brake fluid had absorbed being of a hydroscopic nature would not cause this as water cannot be compressed but it can boil at a lower temp and this will give brake fade.

I will await other replies with interest, best regards Pete.

[Q.S.]

Hi,

Avensis Jan 07, 2.0 D4D TX3. If I keep steady firm pressure on the brake pedal, it eventually touches the floor after about 20 seconds. Apart from this, the brakes seem to work properly, they passed a recent MOT with no problems and in the recent snowy weather, the ABS seemed to work when I expected it to. I mentioned this to my local Toyota main dealer when it went for its 30,000 mile interim service, they said the brake fluid would need changing anyway (every two years) and on inspection the front pads needed changing (normal wear). After the service, the pedal is still the same. Has anybody else experienced this, or know a cure, or doesn't it matter?

Thanks

Hi Paul, Ive been involved with vehicles all my life and I would agree with the other replies but .............. just been out and checked mine and it is exactly the same !!!! this goes against all my experience, but could this be normal????

I can't wait for more replies from others whom I hope will try their cars and reply back. By the way my car has new discs and pads and has had the brake fluid changed recently but even if it hadn't any water that the brake fluid had absorbed being of a hydroscopic nature would not cause this as water cannot be compressed but it can boil at a lower temp and this will give brake fade.

I will await other replies with interest, best regards Pete.

I would take it back to Toyota and show them exactly what it is doing. If under steady pressure the pedal is slowly creeping down towards the floor, it suggests to me that fluid is creeping past the seals internally in the master cylinder (provided there are no leaks elsewhere). Air in the system would give you a soft/soggy pedal but would not creep.

[Thermal]

....fluid is creeping past the seals internally in the master cylinder ...

I agree with Q.S., Master brake cylinder or -seals.

Air in the system makes the pedal feel "spungee", but it would take a lot of air, or a lot of pressure, to get the pedal on the floor.

And since there is no noticable difference after the fluid has been replaced: Master cylinder!

[Paul99]

Thanks for replies, will take back to Mr T. Do you think the master cylinder/seals would be covered under my extended warranty? Will post eventual outcome.

[richard.c]

Hi,

Thanks for replies, will take back to Mr T. Do you think the master cylinder/seals would be covered under my extended warranty? Will post eventual outcome.

Brake pads and discs would not be covered by most warranties.

Cannot see Toyota messing around with seal kits - they would just fit a complete master cylinder - seals or complete cylinder should be covered under your warranty - ask them to clearly state the work will be done under the warranty before they start - if not demand your money back for the worthless warranty.

[Parts-King]

This is a well known and documented feature on all Toyota models with ABS & EBD, I think you will find the brakes are not faulty (Of course this MUST be determined by inspection, dont just take my word for it)

This is from the workshop procedure/service bulletins

If a large braking force is applied when the vehicle is stationary, the lack of feedback

from the brake system will allow the operator/driver to depress the pedal to the floor,

giving the feeling of lack of brake performance. If the same pedal force were to be

applied by the driver when driving, the brake force realised would be extremely high. The

driver would normally sense this, so such a great pedal force would not be applied. This

is a normal and expected condition. This applies to all Toyota vehicles fitted with A.B.S. &

Electronic Brakeforce Distribution.

Kingo

[Paul99]

Thanks for this Parts-King, it will have put all our minds at rest. I did think it odd that in all other respects the brakes seemed perfectly normal. Pity the Toyota main dealer didn't mention this when I asked about it.

Thanks

[Parts-King]

Thanks for this Parts-King, it will have put all our minds at rest. I did think it odd that in all other respects the brakes seemed perfectly normal. Pity the Toyota main dealer didn't mention this when I asked about it.

Thanks

Indeed.......I have posted on this subject before but it was a while ago

The dealers do have this info on their systems and could easily look it up!!! :!Removed!:

Kingo

[t-spiritpete]

This is a well known and documented feature on all Toyota models with ABS & EBD, I think you will find the brakes are not faulty (Of course this MUST be determined by inspection, dont just take my word for it)

This is from the workshop procedure/service bulletins

If a large braking force is applied when the vehicle is stationary, the lack of feedback

from the brake system will allow the operator/driver to depress the pedal to the floor,

giving the feeling of lack of brake performance. If the same pedal force were to be

applied by the driver when driving, the brake force realised would be extremely high. The

driver would normally sense this, so such a great pedal force would not be applied. This

is a normal and expected condition. This applies to all Toyota vehicles fitted with A.B.S. &

Electronic Brakeforce Distribution.

Kingo

Thanks Kingo! Like I said perhaps this is normal and it is, a great reply and I take on board your "determined by inspection" part, well done mate.

Best regards Pete.

[The Cav]

PHEW

thanks for that

I noticed my brakes were like that when stationary with the ignition off

I was worried really worried

This forum already has been invaluable to me and I only joined yesterday

[smallesttrade]

PHEW

thanks for that

I noticed my brakes were like that when stationary with the ignition off

I was worried really worried

This forum already has been invaluable to me and I only joined yesterday

Picking mine up tomorrow and also glad to have joined!

[Bry]

Hi,

Avensis Jan 07, 2.0 D4D TX3. If I keep steady firm pressure on the brake pedal, it eventually touches the floor after about 20 seconds. Apart from this, the brakes seem to work properly, they passed a recent MOT with no problems and in the recent snowy weather, the ABS seemed to work when I expected it to. I mentioned this to my local Toyota main dealer when it went for its 30,000 mile interim service, they said the brake fluid would need changing anyway (every two years) and on inspection the front pads needed changing (normal wear). After the service, the pedal is still the same. Has anybody else experienced this, or know a cure, or doesn't it matter?

Thanks

Its funny when I see these issues, it's a one I forgot about. I raised this one with my dealer wrt my T180, but got the normal, "they are all like that" being rather mechanically minded I was myfed, hydraulics are "vurtually incompressable" so why does the pedal sink to floor when you keep your foot on it? Just another abnormality of these cars, you find if you quickly double pump the brakes they are then solid and good,like other makes. I actually got into the habbit of doing that. It seemed to be another design problem they couldn't fix, So yes, "they are all like that"!!! I made them bleed my brakes as the symptoms are that of air in the system.... made no difference :ffs:

[paul900]

hey guy's just thought id stick my nebber in on this one "apparently the vacum pump for the brakes works differently on a diesel" and the pedal goes to the floor as not to build up too much pressure

my last car a saab 93 1.9 tid did the same and i took to an independant saab garage coz i know the bloke who owns it coz i thought that something was wrong !!!

all fine and it was supposed to do that ..... so im sort of thinkin its the same for all diesels as this avensis does exactly the same and it passed the MOT yesterday..

hope your all happy as i am driving ur cars

[thejailender]

There was a thread about this about 6-8 months ago, I know this as I was having a similar problem with an 08 plate Avensis 1.8 T3S

I took it to my nearest toyota garage, and they gave the brakes a full inspection, and confirmed they were in perfect working order. They gave some explination regarding some new type of master cylider (I'll be honest and say it was way over my head)

The brakes are still the same to this day, I must admit I'm not overflowing with confidence with them, but they have never let me down so far.

The mechanics gave me a bit of advice for testing the seals, basically pump the brakes while the ignition is off, and after 3 or 4 pumps the pedal will become solid, that is the simple way to check the seals are not broke.

[Neil Barker]

There was a thread about this about 6-8 months ago, I know this as I was having a similar problem with an 08 plate Avensis 1.8 T3S

I took it to my nearest toyota garage, and they gave the brakes a full inspection, and confirmed they were in perfect working order. They gave some explination regarding some new type of master cylider (I'll be honest and say it was way over my head)

The brakes are still the same to this day, I must admit I'm not overflowing with confidence with them, but they have never let me down so far.

The mechanics gave me a bit of advice for testing the seals, basically pump the brakes while the ignition is off, and after 3 or 4 pumps the pedal will become solid, that is the simple way to check the seals are not broke.

Since purchasing a 6 month old Avensis 2.2D TR 2yrs ago, the brakes are the one thing that I really, really don't like about this car - it's about the worst I've ever had :-(

I am now in the habit of 'double-pumping' the brake pedal all the time now, as I find the braking performance when braking 'normally' to be dreadful.

I love the car in every other aspect apart from this, but I don't have much confidence in the brakes to bring the car to a rapid stop.

[jimrotts]

i think you will find that this is common with a lot of vehicles and diferent manufacturers it is part of the brake assist systems it happens on my tourer and on my ford transit

[Berti]

Hi,

Avensis Jan 07, 2.0 D4D TX3. If I keep steady firm pressure on the brake pedal, it eventually touches the floor after about 20 seconds. Apart from this, the brakes seem to work properly, they passed a recent MOT with no problems and in the recent snowy weather, the ABS seemed to work when I expected it to. I mentioned this to my local Toyota main dealer when it went for its 30,000 mile interim service, they said the brake fluid would need changing anyway (every two years) and on inspection the front pads needed changing (normal wear). After the service, the pedal is still the same. Has anybody else experienced this, or know a cure, or doesn't it matter?

Thanks

Hi there

I have a 07 plate 2.0 D4D Tourer and mine is exactly the same!

Having had two successive Citroen Picassos before my Avensis, on both of which the brakes were there right at the top of the pedal travel - hard as hell - I took the Avensis back to two different Toyota Dealers within days of having it from new. Both dealers road tested and said this is normal for the Avensis.

Whilst I've got used to it, and it does seem to stop when you need it to, I still don't like it! Interstingly, my Wife purchased a new Yaris in September 2009 and the brakes on that are just like my previous Picassos - right there as hard as hell right at the top of the travel. Needless to say whenever I drive it I end up standing the car on it's nose - such is the difference!

Some cars seem to be like the Avensis - e.g. my Wife's previous car was a Ka and that had enormous travel in the brake pedal and then it was not a firm pressure but it stopped ok. My Daughter's Ka was even worse but both Ka's were checked out when we expressed our concerns and both passed MOT's ok!

Don't know why cars should be so different model to model!

Hope this helps to re-assure you.

Cheers

Bertie

[toymotorowner]

Having had my 07 D4D T250 avensis from new and only having 42000 miles on the clock, my brake pedal has just started to creep down to the floor, I have read other people saying that it is normal. If this is the case, has my car had a fault since it was new? because my pedal never had a creep or any other problem with the pedal going to the floor until 2 days ago. I have work on cars all my life until i retired, and my experience tells me that if a brake pedal creeps to the floor, then its a problem with the master cylinder which is even more likely when the fluid level is going down and there are no leaks from pipes or calipers. I might be wrong in my diagnosis, but I bet im not. I have never heard of this being a "normal" thing and i would investigate it anyway, since it has not been "normal" for the last 11 years that I have had the car for.

[toymotorowner]

Well after further investigation the problem was, as I thought weeping seals in the master cylinder, but also, something that I couldnt see until i got it on a ramp was a corroded metal brake pipe. These normally have like a plastic coating on them, and to have one corrode to the point I found this one was unusual and to find it leaking from the pipe and not the joint was also surprising.  Anyway a new master cylinder and replace the corroded pipe now all is well and no the pedal doesnt creep anymore, so it looks like as far as I am concerned, a creeping pedal is not "normal" else I have a car that has had a fault from new.

[Heidfirst]

Avensis is definitely not unknown for corroded brake pipes ~ 9/10 year mark.

& yes, having  had a 57 plate Avensis T25 a "creeping" pedal is normal but ony if you hold your foot on the pedal for a long time - it will very slowly sink towards the floor under continuous pressure. I suspect that yours was going down a lot more rapidly though.

[toymotorowner]

Hi thanks for that, I have been checking the rest of the pipework but that looks all good for now, amazing how one can corrode so quickly, (MOT only 2 months old). Tested the pedal again and it doesn't creep even slowly, engine on or off so im not complaining, im quite happy to have a nice solid pedal and brakes that stop. In fact they are that good im wondering if the body might part company with the wheels. Thanks for your comments though. 

[Mike169]

Hi All.

This is to those who have a sinking brake pedal and not trying to knock any ones car but I think this is dangerous and needs repairing. Click on the link below, there are lots of posts giving explanations of the possible reason. Good luck!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=iw82W77UMJC2kwWyiprQDw&q=toyota+aventis+2007+sinking+brake+pedal%2C+reason%3F&oq=toyota+aventis+2007+sinking+brake+pedal%2C+reason%3F&gs_l=psy-ab.3...2203.135023.0.143353.54.54.0.0.0.0.202.5580.27j26j1.54.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.43.4628...0j0i131k1j0i10k1j0i13k1j0i13i30k1j0i22i30k1j0i8i13i30k1j33i160k1j33i21k1j33i22i29i30k1.0.uIhMZ_oOy6Y

Regards, Mike.