Loss Of Power On Acceleration

[johnan]

Ah, right, I see now!

So it is just the pipe that leads to the EGR Valve that gets sooted up and needs to be replaced with a better designed one (along with the first cat.) rather than the valve itself.

Thanks Peter, I had never seen that diagram before.

John

[neelix]

Sweetdentist or Peter,

We had on the dutch IQ forum a discussion about this EGR issue.

Some of us on the form had the EGR replaced and did not have the problem of accelaration anymore.

I have an IQ from 2009, one the first and the EGR is changed. t was free of charge.

In the German Autobild magazine was an article about it because the same issue happened in Germany.

Let me say in the Dutch language:

Peter we hebben het er over gehad op het IQforum en er waren een aantal mensen die de boel hebben laten vervangen binnen garantie.

Buiten de garantie moet je gewoon betalen.

Het Duitse IQ forum bevestigt dit beeld.

Jammer dat ons IQforum heen is gegaan.

[sweet-dentist]

Hoi Neelix,

Inderdaad erg naar dat de iQclub of het iQ forum ter ziele is...

Je emrkt dat uit de laatste berichten er een verschuiving is van EGR-klep naar de "first catalyst" en de pijp die daar aan vast zit.

De klachten aan mijn auto zijn echt heel erg minimaal.

Maar goed, jammer dat er na de officiële garantie periode in de verlengda garantie geen mogelijkheden zijn.

Ben nog met Toyota in gesprek.

Want in de kleine lettertjes van de extra verzekering staat dat alles de "motor" wordt vergoed onder garantie.

Als we dan kijken naar de definitie die Toyota heeft van dit motorblok, is het van luchtinlaatmanifold...tot en met de eerste katalysatorpot.. Dus ergens vind ik dat dit allemaal nog steeds onder garantie valt.

Enfin, heel erg leuk weer van je te horen... Hopelijk kunnen we nog ooit wat iQ mensen bij elkaar roepen voor een meeting. Ik zelf en al mijn email kwijt na april dit jaar... een slechte backup en een kapotte SSD schijf... Waarvan ik dact dat Outlook het op de D schijf zette... enfin alles weg.

Vele groeten,

Peter

[sweet-dentist]

On Topic again...

They replace this catalyst because the recirculation-pipe gets clogged by sooth...

How does this differ from the new situation where the pipe is mounted behind the catalyst.

So now all the sooth still clogs up the catalyst.....

Why should this be better..

I mean...there is no change in the burning of the fuel.... So..sooth should be the same...

Any ideas?

[neelix]

Peter, I don't know what is happening by changing the pipe to the lower part of the catalyst, but my car was very, very slow at low speed.

After changing the catalyst and this little pipe the power of the engine was normal.

The only thing what is happening now is a vibration at 2000 rpm.

I don't like that vibration but after 2100rpm it is gone.

Nice to hear something from you and yes a meeting in Holland again would be very nice.

But all the adresses are lost the only one I can write is Alfons.

[sweet-dentist]

Thanks Neelix... I only know RDW (Ruud)... and Barry.. two of all the members of the Dutch iQ-forum... :-(

The problem with my iQ is very very very little... I had it when I put the engine off at a trsffic light..but the traffic light would go green after 2 seconds.

I would start the car again (after 6 seconds after turning of).. at that point the car would just slightly pull a bit harder away the first 3 to 5 meters.

So..no big deal...

But tried the Toyota Dealer.... anyway I should have lied about this problem before the end of the warranty then?

It has happened 3 or 4 times during the last 9 months... and the car drives like a maniac when sprinting away... no complaints about power... :-)

About the soot buildup... any chance of getting less problems by burning V-power or Excellium or fuel like that???

I allways only put Shell V-power in the iQ or BP excellium... hope that this tempers the build up of soot...

I do remember that my iQ had a rather dark and black outlet on the exhaustpipe.... soot... there....so?

[davidgilmour]

Wow, this is nice evidence the way Toyota treats customers. The family members of the first IQ driver who will die in an accident because of this manufacturing fault will never have to work again when Toyota has to pay £ 100 million to them.....

[Jezport]

So if we had a manufacturer who could make an after market cat with the egr pipe from the other end this would solve the problem.

Am I correct?

I know a company that may just be able to do something but I need to know exactly what is needed.

[s44gtw]

Toyota know everything you need to know, have the parts to resolve the fault, have the car run properly, get it correct emissions to pass MOTS'. Just to sort the Fault they knew was there before Warranties Expired.

So really its all in hand.

So what are the other company going to do that is not readily available, and make a profit while doing something

that there are so few needing their services?

A Solicitors letter might be worth sending to Toyota UK saying that the car needs to be repaired to a suitable standard

owhere that the person that has not had a satisfactory job done by Toyota ,

this might get better results than someone spending money to have someone touching the ECU.

george

[davidgilmour]

We just need to wait for the first major accident to happen. Then we will see a few guys from Toyta HQ crying in front of national TV, making excuses that they failed. They will loose face in public! Maybe one of them will commit hari kiri as well.

TOYOTA HQ: don't let it come this far! Just make a recall, no problem! We won't tell everybody you screwed up and made a life dangerous car that could get people killed while the car stalls when crossing a conjunction!

[s44gtw]

Exactly the point some of us made over 2 years ago.

Corporate Responsibilitiy.

If the Models that have the problem had been sold in North America, (USA) then they would have taken action long ago.

Toyota only really react with any speed where lagal actions are taken against them.

Or the big hit will be in their pockets.

As much as they know of problems in the EU countries, they are only pushed into action where really they have to be.

It is bout time that the Motoring Press & Media in General are less up their backsides and get on with caring about the motoring public.

The attitude of some Forums, Moderators and those with vested interests and how they seem to excuse Toyota their pathetic customer services is actually disappointing.

It does not really matter how few are thought to have a problem, that is still Customers and forum members being treated badly,

and surely the right thing to do is assist and get Toyotas lack of action out there for more to be aware of.

george

[Jezport]

EGR valves are a pain in the but on most model. I have read about issues on fords fiats jaguars Suzuki etc.
They clog up, seize, fail electrically and mechanically.
There's only one thing worse than an EGR valve a nd thats a PDF. I know what these parts are meant to do but I know from experience that they are unreliable and likely to cause problems.

Why after all this time since EGR have been on vehicles have manufacturers not designed a reliable alternative?

[gabric098]

Hi all,

this is my first post on this forum. I just finished to go trough all the thread posts and I believe my Toyota IQ has the same exact EGR problem.

It's a 2009 1.0 CVT model and in the last 5-6 months I've noticed that sporadically even if I put my foot down on the accelerator, the engine gets no power at all. Every morning I have to climb a steep road to reach the main road and sometimes my IQ goes really slow (like 10Km/h) even with maximum acceleration. Yesterday I parked my car in front of a speed bump (15 cm tall), when I turned it on again I couldn't climb the speed bump, no power at all... scary!

Now, given that probably it's an EGR problem and given that I live in the very south of Spain I'm quite concerned about Toyota assistance. I've been a couple of times to the garage for the normal service and the only guy working there was quite amazed to see a Toyota IQ for the first time. I strongly doubt that he's reading Toyota bulletins, do you know what I mean...

Should I point him in the right direction providing him with the bulletin ID? Or should I buy it straight away (it's only 3 dollars)? What would you do in my situation?

I would avoid going back and forth from the garage because they cannot replicate the problem or spending extra money on it, the repair it's pretty costly itself!

Thanks,

Gab

[Jezport]

Hi all,

this is my first post on this forum. I just finished to go trough all the thread posts and I believe my Toyota IQ has the same exact EGR problem.

It's a 2009 1.0 CVT model and in the last 5-6 months I've noticed that sporadically even if I put my foot down on the accelerator, the engine gets no power at all. Every morning I have to climb a steep road to reach the main road and sometimes my IQ goes really slow (like 10Km/h) even with maximum acceleration. Yesterday I parked my car in front of a speed bump (15 cm tall), when I turned it on again I couldn't climb the speed bump, no power at all... scary!

Now, given that probably it's an EGR problem and given that I live in the very south of Spain I'm quite concerned about Toyota assistance. I've been a couple of times to the garage for the normal service and the only guy working there was quite amazed to see a Toyota IQ for the first time. I strongly doubt that he's reading Toyota bulletins, do you know what I mean...

Should I point him in the right direction providing him with the bulletin ID? Or should I buy it straight away (it's only 3 dollars)? What would you do in my situation?

I would avoid going back and forth from the garage because they cannot replicate the problem or spending extra money on it, the repair it's pretty costly itself!

Thanks,

Gab

I would take a copy of the bulletin from the forum, and explain that it is a safety issue. Are they toyota dealers? If they are tell them that you want it fixed at no cost to you as it was a manufacturing defect that their bulletin admits.

[gabric098]

Hi Jeremy,

thanks for the quick reply.

Yes, they are official Toyota dealers.

Can you post the link form where I can download the bulletin? I can only found the greek version in this thead.

Do you think it can be fixed for free even if my car is not any more covered by warranty? As far as I read here most of the people payed for get it fixed.

Thanks,

Gab

[Jezport]

Personally, I would speak to them and explain that your wife and children travel in the car and your wife is very worried because it has nearly lead to an accident. Explain that you would happily pay for a repair that was a result of a part wearing out or failing, however this fault is a severe safety risk and is not due to wear and tear it is due to a design fault which Toyota know about and can correct.

I took a copy of a picture of the two versions of the cat from their bulletin found here on the forum http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/128369-loss-of-power-on-acceleration/page-10#entry1289934

[gabric098]

Thanks Jeremy,

really appreciated.

I'll try to put it as you suggested and I keep you posted.

Thanks,

Gab

[sweet-dentist]

Hi all,

this is my first post on this forum.

Thanks,

Gab

Welcome Gabric098,

Nice to see you here... :-)

Peter / Holland

[gabric098]

Hi all,

this is my first post on this forum.

Thanks,

Gab

Welcome Gabric098,

Nice to see you here... :-)

Peter / Holland

Thank you Peter,

I'm glad to have joined this community

[sweet-dentist]

Pffff...

Got a call today from the Toyota dealer. The one who had checked my car and the same one I was not happy about how they communicated....

And guess what... It is done without any costs.... + a free car for the day... How about that?

My last letter I wrote to Toyota Holland..I argued that this fault was due to a production error, that was resolved in 2010 July...and aldo talked about liability in case of accident. Toyota would be to blame if anything happened to me or others in case of an accident due to this problem....

About 1 hour later, after this mail, I was phoned by the dealer...they had done another talk with higher up... and.... all is done with no costs...

So this is done 4 months after my 3 years warranty...and in the 2 years extra warranty that does not pay for this problem.

:-D

The old catalyst and the EGR valve are to be replaced... confirm the Toyota guidelines on this issue...

Peter

[Jezport]

Why shouldn't the 2 years extra warranty cover it?

[s44gtw]

Well done.

That is them meeting their Corporate Responsibility, if they just get on with proper & updated Technical Bulletins to all their European Dealerships then they will be some way towards meeting the correct actions they should have taken when they were first aware of their design fault and possible resulting problems to drivers of the vehicles that can be effected..

george

[johnan]

The old catalyst and the EGR valve are to be replaced... confirm the Toyota guidelines on this issue...

Peter

Does "EGR valve", mentioned above, mean only the offending pipe, that gets blocked with soot, or that pipe plus the actual EGR valve itself?

I thought it was established that only the pipe and catalyst are changed?

Just wondering.

John

[sweet-dentist]

The extra 2 years does not cover any "exhaust" part.
Further...the pipe is connected to the first catalyst and this whole thing is replaced by the one with the pipe "after" the catalyst part. It is one part...
The pipe from this... goes to the EGR, which regulates the exhaust-gas re-intake.

This also HAS to be replaced, due to different measurements.

I understood that the EGR valve is cause of soot buildup in the off-coming pipe of the first catalyst. So both are replaced....plus a lot of rings and stuff that holds it together.
In Holland they have done it so "cleverly" that the Toyota dealer is the one that communicates with "higher up". Toyota Holland say to me that the dealer is the one that does the decisions (?).
Every car(owner) HAS to communicate with there own dealer about this.
I was told that I could move to any other dealer to have it done / with a lot of paperwork. The new dealer has to ask permission again, about the decision your dealer has already made.

Every dealer had to ask about this separately, strangely enough.

Here the old and new Exhaust Manifold:

and the EGR...sitting on the Air Intake Manifold.

On this model we see the "improved" exhaust manifold.... in the front/left you see the new pipe...

[gabric098]

The extra 2 years does not cover any "exhaust" part.

Further...the pipe is connected to the first catalyst and this whole thing is replaced by the One with the pipe "after" the catalyst part. IT is One part...

the pipe from this goes to the EGR, which regulates the exhaustgas reintake. This also HAS to be replaced, due to different measurements.

I understood that the EGR valve is cause of soot buildup in the ofcoming pipe of the first catalyst. So both are replaced....plus a lot of rings and stuff that holds it together.

in Holland they have done IT so cleverly that the Toyota dealer is the one that communicates with "higher up".

Every car HAS to communicate with there own dealer about this.

I was told that I could not move to any other dealer to have it done. Every dealer had to ask about this seperately, strangly enough.

I don't like to think that they do it maliciously but Toyota seems to act very bad. If everyone has to deal with his own dealers there are good possibilities that some of the clients accept to pay for the repair. Let me explain better. Say that me and you live in the same area but we have two distinct dealers. You go to dealer A, explain the problem and, after a lot of discussions, he manages to get from Toyota the approval to fix the EGR free of charge. Now, if I had the same problem I can't go to dealer A which already knows that he can fix the problem for free, I have to go to dealer B which possibly doesn't know the problem and follow the full process from zero, if I don't read the forum it's very likely that I end up paying for the repair and Toyota doesn't lose money.

I bought my car in Italy and now I live in Spain, my dealer is 2000km from here... it really doesn't make sense

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that everything has been sorted out with no extra costs for you