Charliefarlies Guide To The Bsr System (Runflats )

[CharlieFarlie]

This guide is written to hopefully explain the BSR run flat system fitted to the Toyota Rav4 T 180 and SR180

Many owners have bought their cars without knowledge of this BSR system so here I will try to explain what it is and the options for replacing it..

What is the BSR system?

It’s a Run flat system that is different from other types where the sidewall of the tyres used is heavily reinforced so if a puncture or deflation occurs the car effectively rides on the sidewall

BSR (Bridgestone Safety Ring) is a system that employs a ring that is fitted inside the tyre around the rim. This is what the car rides on in the event of a deflation. The tyres are effectively a normal tyre. This is a development of a WW2 military vehicle.

There is also a lubricant inside the tyre that lubes the tyre and the BSR ring in the event of a deflation. Without this the friction generated would destroy both elements.

System is backed up by a TPMS (Tyre Pressure Monitoring System) that illuminates a warning light on the dash if a deflation takes place...

The pluses to this system..

It means that no spare wheel needs to be carried.. And... Err well that’s about it really..

The minuses..

The tyres have to be removed by a special and very expensive machine that only Toyota Dealers and a few independent Tyre Dealers have.

Only one type of Bridgestone tyre can be used with the BSR system. No other make or model of tyre can be used.

This makes for expensive replacements come time for new tyres and can prove very inconvenient in the event of a puncture.

Owners report very expensive costs for replacement or repair !

The options....

Well Owners can simply live with what they have and put up with the what is considered huge costs of replacement or repair.

Or

Remove the existing tyres and the BSR system completely. You can have the tyres removed by an Equipped Dealer as described above. Cost around £45 per wheel OR simply cut the tyres of and remove the safety inner rings with the aid of an angle grinder.

The TPMS system can be retained or removed and switched to prevent the light flashing on the dash..

See here.

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=130476

Once tyres and rings have been removed normal tyres can be fitted on a normal tyre machine by any Tyre Dealer and any brand can be used.

Insurance implications...

You should notify your insurance company if you remove the BSR system and fit normal tyres.

No extra premium is likely as the car will be as the latest spec SR Rav4. IE no BSR system and a tyre repair kit in the boot.

It is possible to have the tyres and the BSR ring removed then refits the tyres but this will invalidate your insurance because the tyres have a symbol on the tyre wall which designates them as Run flats. Which of course without the BSR rings inside they are not! This could mean that a Driver who does not realise this could run into problems if a deflation occurs and he or she carries on driving....

Ride Quality.

The wheels with the extra weight of the BSR system and lubricating gel is huge in comparison to a wheel fitted with a normal tyre..

The suspension has two elements to contend with..

The sprung weight. This is the weight of the Vehicle, Its occupants , Cargo ect ect.

The unsprung weight. This is the weight of the Wheels ,Tyres,Brakes ect ect.

Relieving the suspension of the unsrpung weight enables it to get on with the job of controlling the sprung weight. This adds up to a far far smoother ride without the crashing and thumping that the increased weight of the BSR equipped wheels give. Remember the tyre walls are Not reinforced..

The ride quality is MASSIVLY IMPROVED when the BSR is removed !!!

A consideration...

If Trading in a BSR equipped Rav to a Toyota Dealer one of the first questions asked will be does it still have the run flats?? Because if it does not the car has in their eyes been radically altered and cannot be sold under the Toyota approved car scheme.

Other Dealers may or may not ask depending if they know about the existence of the system in the first place...

Hope this helps.

Charlie.

[anchorman]

I'll think of a way of bunching these posts all together in the pinned section.

Good work Charlie.

[Andy Pigott]

Great job Charlie, I now get the problem and whilst I don't like run-flats it would not have stopped me buying a new RAV as I would have expected them to be the same as the BMW run-flat system that I have benefitted from in the past...they are clearly not as your post clearly shows.

A rare poor show Toyota, but love our 10 plate RAV SR and frankly just lucky that we are unaffected.

Andy

[Hoovie]

I am curious to know if the Tyre fitted to the T180/SR180 is actually really identical to the tyre fitted to the SR150 save the BSR logo?

My RAV4 SR150 has the 18" Bridgestone Dueller H/T 687 Fitted, which I think is the identical designation to the tyre fitted on the BSR equipped vehicles.

Is the only difference in terms of Tyres the addition of the BSR Logo? In which case, why could not the logo (which I am guessing is raised rubber like all other tyre markings?) be ground away to remove it, changing it to the SR150 Standard, with no Run-Flat classification, and therefore allow the tyre to be re-used?

If the tyre IS actually different, Am I right in thinking that the Run Flat aspect is only ever brought into play in the event of a puncture and therefore in 'normal' use, works exactly like a conventional tyre, and therefore again, why cannot the logo be ground away to remove its Run-Flat 'status' and be reused?

I am just thinking that if seems a great shame that potentially hundreds of pounds of tyre may be thrown away when there is no reason if someone bins the BSR system?

If anyone wants to email me a hi-res pic of one of their BSR Tyres, I can compare it with the tyre my RAV4 is equipped with and see what difference there is in the markings.

[Big Kev]

14 out of 10 Charlie....will be very helpful to new member Hodgey I have been speaking to by PM recently....bought a T180 and very quickly binned The Flunrats.

Big Kev

[Davrav]

Removing the symbol has been mooted in the past Hoovie.

Problem with external visual comparison is that you cannot see the internal tyre structure. I, like you, suspect that the only physical difference is the symbol.

Only way to be really certain would be to either have a clued up mole at Bridgestone or cut up a couple of tyres I guess.

[Hoovie]

well, For that reason. I can see 100% why you would not want to use a NON-BSR logoed tyre on a BSR system. but the reverse surely must be ok?

[Big Kev]

Removing the symbol has been mooted in the past Hoovie.

Problem with external visual comparison is that you cannot see the internal tyre structure. I, like you, suspect that the only physical difference is the symbol.

Only way to be really certain would be to either have a clued up mole at Bridgestone or cut up a couple of tyres I guess.

I have the opening line of my letter requesting such clarification from Toyota and Bridgestone already written IN MA HEAD....." Dear Cartel Operating Bar Stewards....".

Such a pity that Bridgestone make such excellent tyres, but at the risk of repeating myself repeating myself, I will never purchase their car products (knowingly) again.

Still Angry Kev........

[Davrav]

well, For that reason. I can see 100% why you would not want to use a NON-BSR logoed tyre on a BSR system. but the reverse surely must be ok?

From a pure usability point of view I agree totally Hoovie. My personal concern would be in the case of an accident and the potential insurance nightmare should it come to light that the tyres had been 'tampered' with.

[CharlieFarlie]

I share the concerns over having tyres with altered designations..

Cutting grinding or polishing any part of the tyre could take some explaining in the event of brown stuff hitting fan blades

I looked carefully into whether or not a Dueller that has that designation is any different structurally to one that has none..

Answer was that there is no difference other than the complex set of numbers and letter on the sides.

One thing that did spring to mind though is that the BSR designated tyres have to be stretched over the BSR rings so I wondered if the tyre had to be constructed in a different way to be able to do this ? Again not sure..

BUT I have no concrete evidence of this so in all honest cannot say.. My strong advice is NOT to refit them.

[Manxrav]

Excellent post Charlie, I agree with you regarding the Symbol removal.It,s seems a good idea in principal, but is sailing a bit close to the wind ( to use a term)

Regards Clare

[Aycee]

Reading the above posts am I right in assuming my 2009 2.2 D-CAT SR does not have run flats. I was told by the previous owner it did.

I went down to Toyota today for the rear suspension recall and asked them but they didnt know "it probably has" was the response. According to the handbook there should be an "O" marking on the tyres if they are runflat but I can't see one. The tyres fitted at the moment are:

Rear Bridgestone Dueller HT687 235 x 55 x18

Front Bridgestone Potenza RE031 235 x 55 x 18

Is does have a tyre pressure monitoring system but is there any way of finding out without having the tyres removed?

Thanks

[Davrav]

If it has the monitoring system I believe it will have originally been fitted with the runflat system too. How hard have you looked for the symbol?

If it's really not on the tyres then it's possible that someone has either removed the support rings and fitted ordinary tyres or simply fitted ordinary tyres with the rings in place.

You could let a tyre down and see if it goes completely flat to the rim. If it doesn't then you probably have the support rings still.

Only sure way is to have a tyre removed and that can be quite a hassle and costly too.................

Big Kev could answer your initial question but he's made his last post on the runflat debacle ;)

Edited October 15, 2012 by Davrav

[Big Kev]

You will not find the Runflat symbol on your front Potenzas as they are not the originally "nominated" runflat tyres with said symbol.

They are ordinary tyres, and whether or not they have the BSR steel runflat rings fitted can only be ascertained by tyre removal I think. If the front Potenzas do indeed contain the steel runflat rings, it would really show Toyota up badly, as their main cartelling point....sorry....selling point was that one must only use the proper designated / logoed / peculiar Bridgestone DUELLER tyres.(with their grossly elevated pricing....)

The Potenza front tyres will still however support the Tyre Pressure Monitoring System with the sender units still in place and working, regardless of steel ring in place.....they monitor pressure....not pressure in a given volume, I understand.

Your dealer's reply of "it probably has the BSR system" is indicative of one main thing.....where is your NEXT nearest dealer.....? This one is a fudd.......

OH.....WOE IS ME....IT STILL GOES ON FFS !!!!!!

Withelded.......

[Aycee]

Thanks for the replies

I believe the front tyres were replaced with the Potenza's but the rear duellers are original. I will have a closer look for any markings in the daylight. If I let the air out of the tyre will it not activate the lubrication system ( if they are runflats) or does the wheel have to rotate?

Not sure what to do really, give the dealer £50 per wheel to check or just wait and see what happens if I get a flat. Knowing my luck it will be midnight on a country lane in Hampshire in the pouring rain!

[Big Kev]

Thanks for the replies

I believe the front tyres were replaced with the Potenza's but the rear duellers are original. I will have a closer look for any markings in the daylight. If I let the air out of the tyre will it not activate the lubrication system ( if they are runflats) or does the wheel have to rotate?

Not sure what to do really, give the dealer £50 per wheel to check or just wait and see what happens if I get a flat. Knowing my luck it will be midnight on a country lane in Hampshire in the pouring rain!

Wotsha Angelos,

The "lubrication system" as such consists of varying amounts of really messy grease slabbered all over your tyres inside and on the steel runflat ring (IF fitted....). Best to read all of Charlie's post and get rid of the bloody system altogether. Will also supply you a spare wheel (and tyre.....) to carry if you so desire.

Big Kev

[Aycee]

Oh, I see, I thought it might be some canisters which got crushed letting out the lubricant. I seem to recall a British Leyland car which had such a system in the 80's. I may just let a tyre down and see what happens. I've got a compressor so no problem pumping it up again. Keeping a spare sounds like a good idea though.

[Big Kev]

Oh, I see, I thought it might be some canisters which got crushed letting out the lubricant. I seem to recall a British Leyland car which had such a system in the 80's. I may just let a tyre down and see what happens. I've got a compressor so no problem pumping it up again. Keeping a spare sounds like a good idea though.

Never mind the 80's mateys.....it was / is a military application to continue travel after a sudden deflation (bullet.....that's what to give them.)

[Big Kev]

If it has the monitoring system I believe it will have originally been fitted with the runflat system too. How hard have you looked for the symbol?

If it's really not on the tyres then it's possible that someone has either removed the support rings and fitted ordinary tyres or simply fitted ordinary tyres with the rings in place.

You could let a tyre down and see if it goes completely flat to the rim. If it doesn't then you probably have the support rings still.

Only sure way is to have a tyre removed and that can be quite a hassle and costly too.................

Big Kev could answer your initial question but he's made his last post on the runflat debacle ;)

Abbalootly, Davrav....you will not hear from me on this subject....rehab on NHS very scarce....

[CharlieFarlie]

David.. It is not possible to fit any other tyre to the wheels with the run flat rings still in place...

There is ONE make and type of tyre only and that as Kev says is the Bridgestone Dueller so the Potenzas cannot and will not have the runflat rings in place. It is however very likely that the TPMS valves have been retained on all wheels as the OP has not got the warning light on the dash flashing... OR of course the TPMS system may have been switched or disabled.

Running a mixture of run flat tyres and normal tyres will very likely raise insurance issues as the vehicle would now be classed as altered / modified and therefore not as it left the factory..

Insurance would argue that an owner would/could think they have the safety of the run flat system in place and carry on driving.....

I found that carrying a spare was a real pain when I removed the run flats. So carried a repair kit (SLIME) And a separate kit with those strings that will plug a larger hole ! So two kits in all . Slime is water based and is the only repair solution that does not render the tyre unrepairable..................

[Big Kev]

David.. It is not possible to fit any other tyre to the wheels with the run flat rings still in place...

There is ONE make and type of tyre only and that as Kev says is the Bridgestone Dueller so the Potenzas cannot and will not have the runflat rings in place. It is however very likely that the TPMS valves have been retained on all wheels as the OP has not got the warning light on the dash flashing... OR of course the TPMS system may have been switched or disabled.

Running a mixture of run flat tyres and normal tyres will very likely raise insurance issues as the vehicle would now be classed as altered / modified and therefore not as it left the factory..

Insurance would argue that an owner would/could think they have the safety of the run flat system in place and carry on driving.....

I found that carrying a spare was a real pain when I removed the run flats. So carried a repair kit (SLIME) And a separate kit with those strings that will plug a larger hole ! So two kits in all . Slime is water based and is the only repair solution that does not render the tyre unrepairable..................

Point made well which I had totally forgottened about.....the insurance implications of mixed tyres....gotta fix that, Angelos.

Big Kev

[Aycee]

Got me worried now, will have to sort this out. Didn't get a chance to look today to see if the duellers had any runflat markings. What a pain!!

[Aycee]

Well don't know if this is good or bad news! Looked for any markings on Duelers but couldnt find any. I let the tyre down and it went totally flat so theres no ring inside. I did some research on the Bridgestone runflat site and it doesnt even list the 235x55x18 Duelers as having a runflat version.

Reading back through the posts #2 says "You should notify your insurance company if you remove the BSR system and fit normal tyres.

No extra premium is likely as the car will be as the latest spec SR Rav4. IE no BSR system and a tyre repair kit in the boot."

Does this mean I my car is the latest spec SR, its says SR in the service book and its just 3 years old. If so I need the repair kit, what exactly is it as I have nothing in the boot apart from a jack and locking wheel nut key?

Thanks for all the replies.

Angelos

[CharlieFarlie]

Firstly. Its good news that you have the run flat system removed from both front and rear axles...

The mention of the latest SR refers to the cars that were Not fitted with the run flat system and has a tyre repair kit instead. These cars have the 150BHP engine .. All SR cars with the 180 BHP engine and the T180 cars were fitted with the run flat system...

It is possible that your tyres (Rear) ARE the run flat variants but with the BSR rings removed.. This can be done but Will cause problems as the symbol on the tyre Will indicate that the car has the full run flat system in place where in reality it does not..

It has in the past been suggested that an owner could have the tyres removed.. Then remove the BSR rings and refit the tyre AND THEN FILE AWAY THE DESIGNATION MARKS.................................................... Dont do it !

Whatever.... If your car has the BSR rings removed it has been altered from its standard for IE when it left the factory/dealers. So You must inform your insurance company.. Failure to do so COULD invalidate your insurance if the s hit hits the fan.....

In my case there was no extra premium required......

[Davrav]

I'm starting to get a vision of Big Kev twitching like Inspector Dreyfus in the Pink Panther series...................