Replacing 5Th Gear On 4.1 And 4.2 Gearboxes.

[anchorman]

I have repaired my 5th gear problem (it used to keep popping out). This involved replacing the sleeve and the actual 5th gear as well as the components that make up the synchronizer mechanism.

It is now extremely smooth - no rattles or vibrations - I think better than when I first bought the car..

I have also noticed that shifting into other gears especially reverse is now much smoother - without that notchy feeling. This could be down to the new gearbox oil that I put in.

On a scale of 1 - 10 this job is about 5 in complexity, and the only special tools I needed was a puller (I used a harmonic pulley puller) (like this - ancs; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRO-13PC-HARMONIC-BALANCE-GEAR-PULLEYS-PULLER-SET-FLYWHEEL-CRANK-SHAFT-PULLEYS-/180858460517?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2a1c011965) - though I had to buy the M8 bolts that attached the puller to the synchro hub. These are standard HT M8s with a standard thread pitch (I obtained these at Halfords).

The pusher (to push the hub back on) was fashioned out of a large socket - plus 2 ring spanners, a M12 bolt (100mm) with a fine thread pitch (1.5mm). The two spanners were used as spacers on the pusher as the M12 bolt's thread length was about 30mm only.

Total time to do this job was about 6 hours all in - could be done quicker I guess but this was my first time.

The information in R4W is valid for my model (RAV 4.2) - the gearbox looks identical.

The only brainy bit that I had to worry about was putting the synchroniser back together - I used the exploded diagrams of the gearbox components that anchorman kindly pointed me at to help me here.

When I looked at the replacement parts (Thanks Kingo! ) and compared them to what I pulled out of the gearbox the only visible difference I could see was between the gear teeth patterns on the 5th gear and the sleeve. These were quite different - and could be down to wear.

I dont believe the synchro hub was the problem here - the components (Rings springs etc all looked fine) - however I changed these as well.

I think I saved about £400 in labour.

I took some pictures (of my pusher) as well as pictures that look like those on the site above..I can post those as well if anyone is interested.

This is the parts list I used:

T08826-00090 C106 SEAL PACKING (gasket maker)

T33336-42030 N/STK FIFTH gear

T90364-28023 N/STK NEEDEL BEARING

T33397-28010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33396-28010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33395-42010 N/STK TRANS.HUB&SLEE

T90179-20012 N/STK NUT

T33398-12010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33393-42010 N/STK TRANS.HUB&SLEE

T33399-12011 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33392-12010 Q1074 SPRING, SHFTING

T33392-12020 Q1074 SPRING, SHFTING

-phil

Later, Chris (Tech01) added this information;

I've had the annoying gear lever buzz in 5th (only). It started about 18 months ago, and slowly became a hammering rattle, which no amount of light finger pressure on the gearstick would prevent. Following various folks' advice, I checked over the gearcables and their rubber bushing, and found no problem. I re-greased the gear lever's ball/socket and joint mechanism, and removed and greased up all the swivels and balljoints at the gearbox end of the shift cables (the bell-crank mechanism). This produced a small degree of muting, but no cure. The gearstick vibration continued, worst at full throttle and at 100-120kph (60-75mph), always and only in 5th.

I concluded that I had a worn Fifth gear (the subject of TSB WS-3002, Dec.2003), and last week replaced the complete 5thgearcluster. The parts list above was right for my 2003 4.2, except for the second item: 33364-42020, instead of 33364-42030. (Also, Nut 90179-20012, I found I didn't need, as it wasn't necessary to remove the layshaft-mounted gear.)

All in, about a four hour job, the only fiddly bit being the assembly of the synchro components. It is essential to make up a disc or plate puller, as suggested, to remove the gear assembly (after first tapping away the thick circlip on the shaft end). Do not try to use a hooked puller on the gear cluster assembly: it’s a very snug fit on the splined shaft, and you’ll break something if you try. Make up a puller, and use the three threaded holes with three suitable bolts. I know you’re going to replace all the bits, but, if they break up and fall out, you’ll never know what goes where. I speak from experience here!

Refilled the box with 75W-80 (has always worked for me, and far better changes than with 75W-90), and it drives and shifts like new. No vibration whatsoever, and a nice positively-located feel to fifth gear.

My local Toyota (main agent) mechanics (Malaga, Spain) say they have replaced countless fifth gear assemblies, on RAVs from late ‘90s onwards. New parts “always” cure the problem, they tell me.

Cost of parts was 658 Euro, plus vat.

It looks to me as if a buzzing gear lever is very likely an early-warning for a fifth gear wear problem of failure waiting to happen. By all means check the cable lubrication (both ends) and bushing, but don’t hold your breath.

Chris

I will add any relevant pdf's asap - ancs.

[Logie]

I have just done this job today using new parts suppied by my local toyota dealer. now my gearbox is JUST THE SAME yep still slipping out of fifth. I could cry. Could it be the gear linkage?

[anchorman]

There are detent springs in the box and at the bottom of the gearstick. I'm surprised though as a good healthy gearbox would normally hold gears without them. Don't be offended but everything is assembled correctly isn't it?

[RAV4D4DXT2]

What years are affected by this 5th gear problem. If Toyota was aware of the problem at the end of 2003 when the TSB came out, does that mean 2004 MY cars onwards are unaffected. I'm thinking it may be better to replace the gearbox from a breaker rather than do a repair. Also will the 2.2 diesel gearboxes fit a 2003?

[Logie]

There are detent springs in the box and at the bottom of the gearstick. I'm surprised though as a good healthy gearbox would normally hold gears without them. Don't be offended but everything is assembled correctly isn't it?

No offence taken, Yep me and a friend both capable amateur mechanics (him more than me) did this fix and my rav is no better off. I wasn't refering to springs in the gearbox.. There is linkage CABLES running from the bottom of the gearstick to the gearbox, i was wondering if these could be to blame for my problem. I shopped around 3 different toyota dealers before ordering parts and each dealer gave me different part numbers for fifth gear. Im slowly start to go off toyotas.

[anchorman]

I was meaning that if the springs were weak or broken they may not hold it in gear so well.

[Logie]

I was meaning that if the springs were weak or broken they may not hold it in gear so well.

Ah right, sorry. Ive spent a fortune on the car and im considering getting rid as the problem cant seem to be fixed.

[Davrav]

What indication of wear, if any, was there on the parts you replaced?

Reason I ask is that, if little or no signs, then, to me, that would definitely point to another cause. That being said, the fifth gear issues are well known.

[Tech01]

I have just done this job today using new parts suppied by my local toyota dealer. now my gearbox is JUST THE SAME yep still slipping out of fifth. I could cry. Could it be the gear linkage?

Hi Logie,

The problem many of us have encountered is one of "gearstick vibration or hammering", when in 5th gear, which becomes worst at heavy throttle. This problem affected 4.1s and 4.2s, and ran from the late '90s until 2005-ish, possibly later. Toyota produced the TSB referred to above in 2003, and recommended replacing the fifth gear cluster with a list of parts (some of them modified). As far as we know, this overhaul is successful (no-one seems to have reported the problem resurfacing).

Intriguingly, the problem seems to have continued on vehicles manufactured after the publication of the TSB, by which time you would have expected suspect parts no longer to be fitted. However, fitting the recommended parts appears to clear the problem.

"Slipping out of 5th" has not been a problem which has been reported here as accompanying the vibration problem, although it is possible that severely worn 5th gear components might cause this.

In my opinion, "slipping out of 5th" is most likely to be the result of a badly set up or adjusted gear selector lever/cable/fulcrum, which does not allow the gear to be fully engaged. All these components are inspectable without the need to open up the gearbox. Anchorman makes helpful reference to the detent springs, which also help to locate the gear positively.

Chris

[Tech01]

What indication of wear, if any, was there on the parts you replaced?

Reason I ask is that, if little or no signs, then, to me, that would definitely point to another cause. That being said, the fifth gear issues are well known.

Hi Davrav,

We inspected the parts removed when we did the job here, but could not visually detect any wear. Not easy to pinpoint exactly what might have worn.

Chris

[Davrav]

What indication of wear, if any, was there on the parts you replaced?

Reason I ask is that, if little or no signs, then, to me, that would definitely point to another cause. That being said, the fifth gear issues are well known.

Hi Davrav,

We inspected the parts removed when we did the job here, but could not visually detect any wear. Not easy to pinpoint exactly what might have worn.

Chris

Sounds like very tight tolerance in that case Chris.

[Logie]

I changed the following... 5th gear 33336-42040, Trans hub&sleeve 33393-42010, Needle bearing 90364-28013 However all the old parts had NO signs of any ware or damage. Every other gear works perfect. I dont know what to do next apart from scrap it.

[sniper9652]

I changed the following... 5th gear 33336-42040, Trans hub&sleeve 33393-42010, Needle bearing 90364-28013 However all the old parts had NO signs of any ware or damage. Every other gear works perfect. I dont know what to do next apart from scrap it.

I took my 4.2 D4D (54) to a local g/box specialist and got the job done for £360 all in! They only replaced the parts that needed replacing and were more than fair with the labour charge!...3 months in now and not a sound out of the 5th gear AT ALL at ANY speed, in fact the car performs better than a 'hot hatch' I owned years ago!! My opinion is that some things on cars are 'specialist' repairs to be performed by specialists and IMHO the g/box is one of them! I bet the cost of your purchased parts were pretty close to my total payment? There is a previous post of mine regarding my problem and eventual fix!

Regards, Steve

PS: My vibration/rattle was very bad at about 60-70mph and was on the verge of popping out (or so I thought)!

[Logie]

I changed the following... 5th gear 33336-42040, Trans hub&sleeve 33393-42010, Needle bearing 90364-28013 However all the old parts had NO signs of any ware or damage. Every other gear works perfect. I dont know what to do next apart from scrap it.

I took my 4.2 D4D (54) to a local g/box specialist and got the job done for £360 all in! They only replaced the parts that needed replacing and were more than fair with the labour charge!...3 months in now and not a sound out of the 5th gear AT ALL at ANY speed, in fact the car performs better than a 'hot hatch' I owned years ago!! My opinion is that some things on cars are 'specialist' repairs to be performed by specialists and IMHO the g/box is one of them! I bet the cost of your purchased parts were pretty close to my total payment? There is a previous post of mine regarding my problem and eventual fix!

Regards, Steve

PS: My vibration/rattle was very bad at about 60-70mph and was on the verge of popping out (or so I thought)!

I wish it was that easy but for a Mk1 RAV you neeb to take the front drive shafts and front sub-frame off then lower the engine and gearbox down through the car just to take the gearbox off. I know this because I bought a used low milage gearbox at first to do this fix then found out whats needed to change it. So its looking like eBay (spares or repair) for my RAV.. shame I really enjoyed driving it esp in the snow.

[Parts-King]

From my experience people try and keep the costs of the fix down by not fitting the parts listed as per the TSB, they want to cut corners and not fit all the parts. I am asked weekly what the fix is, prices etc, and when I get back to them, they only want to part order.

The 4.1 fix will cost about £400 delivered, the parts are 5th gear, hub, sleeve, bearing and retainer, whenever these parts are fitted, in my experience, it is fixed in every case. The only time it goes wrong is when corners are cut

Kingo

[Logie]

From my experience people try and keep the costs of the fix down by not fitting the parts listed as per the TSB, they want to cut corners and not fit all the parts. I am asked weekly what the fix is, prices etc, and when I get back to them, they only want to part order.

The 4.1 fix will cost about £400 delivered, the parts are 5th gear, hub, sleeve, bearing and retainer, whenever these parts are fitted, in my experience, it is fixed in every case. The only time it goes wrong is when corners are cut

Kingo

Thanks Kingo, Yep i bought all the above named parts apart from retainer, I was never trying to cut corners,i was just told that these were all the parts i needed. I also think i was sold the wrong FIFTH GEAR according to a member in another Forum. I was sold T333336-42040 were as i think i should have been given T333336-12060. Im scared of buying more expensive parts only to find that i still have the same problem.

[Parts-King]

You were sold the CORRECT gear

These parts have been superceeded a few times, the current part numbers are

33393-42010

33395-42012

33336-42040

90364-28023

33151-28020

Kingo

[Logie]

Could you PM me a price for items 2,4&5 on that list. Your correct i have the correct gear and Trans Hub&sleeve (1&3) hopefully this will solve my problem. Many thanks Kingo for your time and patience.

[Parts-King]

Will do but it will be later today as I am out of the office this afternoon ;)

[RAV4D4DXT2]

Can anyone help with my gearbox fault? The well documented vibrating gear stick when in 5th which I know about and hopefully how to cure. The problem is apart from the vibration and noise 5th is fine, it always engages and never pops out. When the gearbox is cold everything else is fine, but when it warms up I have problems getting 3rd when going from 4th to 3rd and less often when going from 2nd to 3rd. When in 3rd the box is noticeably noisier. Could this be related to the 5th gear fault or is 3rd gear synchro shot. Any pointers would be helpful, thanks.

Oh, and has anyone upgraded to a 6 speed box. There seems to be loads in breakers but not many diesel 5 speeds.

[Tech01]

Hi Rav4D4DXT2...

It's possible you have a problem with worn synchromesh, but this isn't often reported here.

A couple of easy things to try first:

- Check the free play and adjustment at the clutch pedal, to make sure the clutch is disengaging properly; and don't hurry the gear changes - rapid changes never were this box's forte!

- If you have 85W-90 oil in the box (or aren't sure what is in there), refill it with 75W-80 gear oil. This makes engagement of gears easier at all temperatures.

Can't help you with 6-speed advice, but I'm sure someone will!

Chris

[RAV4D4DXT2]

Thanks Chris

I think the way forward for me is to change the box. I just need to be patient and find the right one, ideally from a 2004-2005 d4d.

Jim.

[anchorman]

I fancy the noise problem is "suck it and see".

Forget about the 6 speed box.

[archie104]

Hi all,just been following this topic with interest as my 2005 rav4 has just developed the dreaded fifth gear pop out,

does anyone have a currrent parts list and price for these parts they could post on here,my car is a

2005/55 plate D4D diesel,i am going to attempt the repair myself following the excellent guides.

thanks in anticipation

[Tech01]

Hi Archie,

Take a look at the Pinned technical article at the top of this RAV4 forum:

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/136334-replacing-5th-gear-on-41-and-42-gearboxes/

Not sure where you are located (your Profile needs filling in!) - if in the UK, then Kingo here (Parts King) will be able to help you with the genuine Toyota updated and replacement parts and prices.

Chris