How Many Auris Hybrids Have The 12 Volt Flat Battery Problem?

[RunningInPleasePass]

My 6 month old Auris Hybrid has gone back to the dealer for the second time today with a flat Battery.

As this problem seems to be occurring far too frequently perhaps we could try and find how many people have been effected by it.

I thought we could ask this site to pin a questionnaire to the forum, so people could vote if their car has had this problem, that way we could get some idea of numbers?

I know only a small fraction of owners comment on forums but I can't think of any better way to try and get a handle on the numbers?

[FROSTYBALLS]

I've gone back through the topics and posts on the Hybrid/Prius club, and the members who have had 12v Battery problems appear to be:

Lester69

Runninginpleasepass

geo13647

Recruiterdave

Bag4life

Dasbob

Jonesbach

Lester69 is from Dublin, so if anyone intends approaching Toyota GB using these figures, he would probably need to be discounted as presumably his Auris Hybrid was supplied by Toyota Ireland.

[RunningInPleasePass]

Thanks Mike, I suppose this number of failures is pretty small compared to the number of Auris Hybrids sold, just my luck to be one of them!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Haven't been able to determine approx how many have been registered since launch. The 'How many left' information seems incomplete as 1) they only list the T4 and T-Spirit as Hybrids (which were the first generation Auris), and 2) although they list the Icon VVTi CVT and Excel VVTi CVT, some of these may be the 1.6 petrol.

The percentage of people having problems may be higher than implied - if one were to look at the number of TOC members who own a second generation Auris Hybrid, and then work out the percentage of members who have had the 12v Battery issue (from the info in my post above). Though I'm not sure how we could determine the number of owners accurately and differentiate between generation 1's and generation 2's.

[RunningInPleasePass]

I can see it would be very hard to work out the number of Battery problems just from TOC member postings, it would be good information to have for prospective customers.

I would not have swapped my diesel Auris for a hybrid if I had known about this problem, and it looks like a problem that Toyota are not able to sort out.

[Devon Aygo]

I can see it would be very hard to work out the number of battery problems just from TOC member postings, it would be good information to have for prospective customers.

I would not have swapped my diesel Auris for a hybrid if I had known about this problem, and it looks like a problem that Toyota are not able to sort out.

As a warranty administrator at a Toyota / Lexus adding my observations/opinion, the the Hybrids actually suffer no noticeable difference in terms of 12V Battery issues than the non Hybrid range.

[geo13647]

Other mentions in the various forums, include 23 German owners and 7 Italian at last count.

I'm sure that there are quite a few that are not members of the various forums, or have not posted.

Also people that have had a Battery change, and no further issues yet! May not have reported.

Me, I'm on my 3rd Battery, recon I'll get about another 10 days before it's kaput too, but I live in hope...

G...

[FROSTYBALLS]

37 forum members that we know about across the UK, Ireland, Germany and Italy.

Think the hope was that we could estimate the number of TOC members having 12v Battery problems, together with the number of second generation Auris Hybrid owning members, and extrapolate the figures to estimate what percentage of second generation Auris owners in the UK may have 12v Battery issues.

Toyota GB, as the organisation responsible for selling Toyotas in the UK, could then be approached with the estimate of figures, and possibly have some pressure brought to bear to remedy the issue in a more timely manner than they appear to have currently..

In this scenario, German and Italian owners wouldn't be that relevant.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I can see it would be very hard to work out the number of battery problems just from TOC member postings, it would be good information to have for prospective customers.

I would not have swapped my diesel Auris for a hybrid if I had known about this problem, and it looks like a problem that Toyota are not able to sort out.

As a warranty administrator at a Toyota / Lexus adding my observations/opinion, the the Hybrids actually suffer no noticeable difference in terms of 12V Battery issues than the non Hybrid range.

Well I recall back in 2010 Toyota UK said there were no brake issues with the UK versions of the Prius. This was happening when I'd already reported mine for suffering from it, as had another member on this very forum.

So I'm sure your dealership may not have had any issues, but I'd take any dismissal from Toyota UK HQ with a pinch of salt. I would also stress to others reading this that large companies like Toyota do work at glacial speed, so it may take a while for any issues to work their way to the top.

Still recon you should post any issues on the priuschat forum (which also has an Auris section) as anything posted on there does appear to get acted on very quickly by Toyota - even if it applies here in the UK.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Just had a quick look at the Priuschat forums, and, for information, 'non-Prius Toyota hybrids' come under 'other cars'.

[RunningInPleasePass]

I can see it would be very hard to work out the number of battery problems just from TOC member postings, it would be good information to have for prospective customers.

I would not have swapped my diesel Auris for a hybrid if I had known about this problem, and it looks like a problem that Toyota are not able to sort out.

As a warranty administrator at a Toyota / Lexus adding my observations/opinion, the the Hybrids actually suffer no noticeable difference in terms of 12V Battery issues than the non Hybrid range.

Well I recall back in 2010 Toyota UK said there were no brake issues with the UK versions of the Prius. This was happening when I'd already reported mine for suffering from it, as had another member on this very forum.

So I'm sure your dealership may not have had any issues, but I'd take any dismissal from Toyota UK HQ with a pinch of salt. I would also stress to others reading this that large companies like Toyota do work at glacial speed, so it may take a while for any issues to work their way to the top.

Still recon you should post any issues on the priuschat forum (which also has an Auris section) as anything posted on there does appear to get acted on very quickly by Toyota - even if it applies here in the UK.

Posted on Prius Chat, it's worth a try.

http://priuschat.com/threads/toyota-auris-excel-hybrid-uk-with-a-flat-battery-again.136658/

[RunningInPleasePass]

I can see it would be very hard to work out the number of battery problems just from TOC member postings, it would be good information to have for prospective customers.

I would not have swapped my diesel Auris for a hybrid if I had known about this problem, and it looks like a problem that Toyota are not able to sort out.

As a warranty administrator at a Toyota / Lexus adding my observations/opinion, the the Hybrids actually suffer no noticeable difference in terms of 12V Battery issues than the non Hybrid range.

Good point, and I think now that the batteries are not faulty, I have had the problem twice and George is on his third, it's impossible to believe in such bad luck!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I've noticed the posts on PC. It'll take upto a week to get a multitude of responses. I've also emailed a few of the engineers who know the Prius inside and out (the Auris uses something like 95% of the Prius hybrid system) so there should be a few good responses.

[kithmo]

Are all these failing batteries the same brand ?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

The Auris HSD has a 35Ah 12v Battery. The gen 3 Prius apparently has a 45 Ah 12v (see other thread).

The Prius has already had reports of suffering 12v failure if the car is left for about 4 weeks due to the drain of the keyless entry and the fact the hybrid system takes longer to charge up the 12v than an alternator.

If the Auris HSD has a 20% reduce capacity Battery, but is expected to run virtually similar items when parked, it's no surprise it can't handle it and the deep cycles will kill it very prematurely, causing all these failures.

Think we're getting to the bottom of this.

[RunningInPleasePass]

At least we are not alone with this flat Battery problem in the UK, over on Prius Chat the Moderator of the Italian Hybrid forum has had this problem and has also counted up to 36 reported cases across Europe.

http://priuschat.com/threads/toyota-auris-excel-hybrid-uk-with-a-flat-battery-again.136658/page-2#post-1948606

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Is it negligence on Toyota UK's part? Is it a design fault?

It's looking much more the latter or maybe both.

I'll quote Mr Wong from the PC forum who advised the following;

Thanks for posting the photo of the Auris 12V battery. As previously

discussed, that is rated at 35 Ah and happens to be the same Battery as

was installed in the Classic Prius (2001 - 2003 model years.) A

similar Battery was installed in 2G Prius without the Smart system.

That Battery was marginal for those installations and it is not

surprising to hear you are having trouble with that battery in the

Auris. A much larger battery sourced from Panasonic was subsequently

offered as a replacement Classic 12V battery, which required the battery

bracket and cabling to be replaced.


The 2G with the Smart system and 3G Prius use a 45 Ah, S46B24R battery

which is physically longer to provide the added Ah capacity.

Sounds like this issue has a history and Toyota UK didn't do their investigations correctly when designing the Auris.

Quite clearly the capacity was increased to allow for the higher drain of the keyless system, yet this has not been included in the
Auris.

Toyota are a UK success story but that doesn't give them carte blanche to not correct a clear issue. If they do the recall now, they'll keep their reputation. Delay or ignore it and it'll ruin their hybrid reputation across Europe.

Toyota UK, read these posts, pass them to the relevant department and get the issue sorted.

[FROSTYBALLS]

As far as I'm aware Toyota doesn't monitor these forums - so don't be surprised if the message doesn't get across.

It would probably be better to make Toyota GB (responsible for sales and marketing within the UK), Toyota Europe (the corporate organisation for Europe) and Toyota Motor Manufacturing UK (responsible for the European manufacturing of the Auris and Avensis) aware in writing simultaneously of the issue(s) and Mr Wong's response to the topic on Priuschat.

Contact details:

https://www.toyota.co.uk/contactus

http://www.toyota.eu/contact/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.toyotauk.com/other-information/contact-us.html

[Nozuka]

I'm surprised that this can happen nowadays, even if the Battery capacity is on the small side.

On my current car every power consuming thing gets turned off one after another, when the Battery starts to get low to prevent this.

which happened once and surprised me a little bit, because the smart key wasn't working because of that. (only drove short distances for weeks and it was winter)

but then again its an overpriced audi. (with lots of other problems, which is why i am thinking about buying an auris this year.)

i can't wait to see what happens in august, when the first model year changes come along. maybe they'll change the Battery.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I'm surprised that this can happen nowadays, even if the battery capacity is on the small side.

On my current car every power consuming thing gets turned off one after another, when the battery starts to get low to prevent this.

which happened once and surprised me a little bit, because the smart key wasn't working because of that. (only drove short distances for weeks and it was winter)

but then again its an overpriced audi. (with lots of other problems, which is why i am thinking about buying an auris this year.)

i can't wait to see what happens in august, when the first model year changes come along. maybe they'll change the battery.

Because a traditional car with an alternator tops up the 12v within minutes of starting.

The hybrid system takes much longer to top up and this appears to have been the oversight by Toyota UK by using this smaller 12v Battery.

This issue has been known since the early days of the gen1 in 2001, yet Toyota have taken a backwards step with the latest Auris HSD.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Mr Wong (who knows the Prius inside out) has quoted the following too;

I understand that the Lexus CT200h uses the same 45 Ah Battery as the
current Prius: S46B24R. That Battery size is barely sufficient for the
Prius and there are many reports from US owners complaining about short
Battery life. Typically those reports come from owners who drive
relatively few miles.

It is not surprising that the Auris' battery with 20% reduced capacity
will leave even more owners dissatisfied with battery performance, even
those who log a "normal" amount of annual miles.

I suggest that Auris owners will need to use an AGM battery charger
periodically (2x per month for example) to keep the 12V battery
fully-charged. When the original equipment battery dies, see if a
larger battery can fit into the available space. It might be necessary
to modify or replace the battery bracket to make this work.

So it appears that even the CT200h which was based on the older Auris HSD also has the bigger 45Ah 12v battery.

[geo13647]

Mr Wong (who knows the Prius inside out) has quoted the following too;

I understand that the Lexus CT200h uses the same 45 Ah battery as the

current Prius: S46B24R. That battery size is barely sufficient for the

Prius and there are many reports from US owners complaining about short

battery life. Typically those reports come from owners who drive

relatively few miles.

It is not surprising that the Auris' battery with 20% reduced capacity

will leave even more owners dissatisfied with battery performance, even

those who log a "normal" amount of annual miles.

I suggest that Auris owners will need to use an AGM battery charger

periodically (2x per month for example) to keep the 12V battery

fully-charged. When the original equipment battery dies, see if a

larger battery can fit into the available space. It might be necessary

to modify or replace the battery bracket to make this work.

Yep, fair point, however, if I wanted to charge my car regularly, I would have bought a Nissan Leaf, Chevvy Volt, or a Tesla (if I could afford the $$$).

Someone at Toyota seems to have problems with simple physics.

A small bucket with a hole in it, with less water going in, than out, will soon be empty.

Every time the bucket is emptied, it is damaged, and holds less water, so empties sooner.

Mr T, is that so hard to understand?

G...

[FROSTYBALLS]

It is not that it is so hard for Toyota to understand, it is probably because Toyota don't monitor these forums, and thus have seen none of these topics and posts.

In the time I've been a TOC member I have never seen Toyota GB make a post against any topic raised on these forums.

If you want Toyota to take notice, see my suggestion at post 18.

[geo13647]

It is not that it is so hard for Toyota to understand, it is probably because Toyota don't monitor these forums, and thus have seen none of these topics and posts.

In the time I've been a TOC member I have never seen Toyota GB make a post against any topic raised on these forums.

If you want Toyota to take notice, see my suggestion at post 18.

Agreed, there's a few threads running on Prius Chat & others.

Even emailed Toyota Customer Services as well, naturally, they are sticking to the party line that all in the garden is rosy, and they have no issues with their cars, components or suppliers. It's all the customer's fault.

Now I know why they don't run a Customer Care program, because they certainly don't...

G...

[Grumpy Cabbie]

It is not that it is so hard for Toyota to understand, it is probably because Toyota don't monitor these forums, and thus have seen none of these topics and posts.

In the time I've been a TOC member I have never seen Toyota GB make a post against any topic raised on these forums.

If you want Toyota to take notice, see my suggestion at post 18.

They never respond but they DO read forums, at least the PriusChat forum and possibly this one.