2004 Toyota Ipsum (avensis Verso) Rear Differential Noise

[kiwitonita]

I've just imported the above car from Japan to New Zealand and am pretty happy with it except that it has a differential whine so that's taken the joy out of initial ownership. In order to get the service manual I subscribed for 3 hours to www.toyota-tech.eu and downloaded lots of useful info but there is absolutely nothing I can see about the rear differential on the 4WD model. It has a 2.4 litre petrol engine, 80,000km. From the cars specification label:

Model: CBA-ACM26W-ARSGK-W

Engine: 2AZ-FE

Trans/Axle: U140F -01A

On the toyota-tech site under the Avensis Veso is listed only the ACM20, ACM21 and CLM20 models, none of which are 4WD.

Does anyone know where to download information about the rear differential?

A friend is a mechanic at the Mercedes dealer and is keen to help repair it for me however we first need a workshop manual for the diff. We put the car up on stands today and narrowed down the noise to the diff, it's not the wheel bearings or anything else. The diff oil looked pretty good with no metal evident in the samll sample drained out.

After this is all fixed the next job is to update the factory Toyoata MultiAV system with an Android based GPS/DVD etc player so I'll be sure to add a post about that.

Thank you, Tony

[kiwitonita]

As I don't have a Europe VIN or number plate number I cannot enter the "Electronic Parts Catalogue" on the toyota-tech.eu site either. If someone would kindly let me know a valid Avensis Verso VIN or Registration Plate number that would be most helpful. Hopefully you can send a PM or if not, an email to kiwitonita AT paradise.net.nz Thanks again.

Since the initial post I've found some photos of the differential on a Russian site (use Google Chrome for automatic translation): http://toyota-club.net/files/2004/04-07-05_faq_atc.htm

[FROSTYBALLS]

As far as I'm aware the four wheel drive versions of the Avensis Verso and the Avensis were not officially exported to Europe, which presumably is why the Toyota Tech EU site doesn't list the four wheel drive variants.

[kiwitonita]

OK, thanks Mike. Unfortunately they were not sent to the US either otherwise the US site https://techinfo.toyota.com would be useful as well. I've asked Toyota NZ for advice on the service details. Another wee job down the track is the arrange another transducer / remote locking key for less that the NZ$250 quoted at a locksmith here. If succuessful I will post deatils here.

[TomdeGuerre]

Hi Tony, nice to hear from our Antipodean chapter. Never heard of that model you have but was having a trawl around just in case there's different Google results back here. Could your rear axle be anything like the Liteace four wheel drive as shown in he picture?

I also tried to include an overhaul doc for the U140F transaxle but upload file size is limited to 2mb anyway you may already have it. Just a word here, from what I read, these autoboxes need the fluid changed every 15,000 miles and they're finicky things. Given that you're having trouble with the other end of your transmission I think a full service of the tranny might be in order.

[kiwitonita]

Thanks Tom for the excellent advice. Yes, even though the auto trans oil looks and smells just fine I'll have the system flushed etc. I have downloaded the documents for that OK.

The rear differential is described on a Russian repair web site here: reduktor.nsk.ru/tojota/remont-reduktora-toyota-ipsum which translates OK if opened in Chrome then translated. It looks like there is an electric clutch in front of the differential.

They show a side view (reduktor-ipsum) as well as the electric clutch and 2 photos of my one are attached. Interesting to see the same white label with "91" on mine as on a Russian photo on their toyota-club.net site. I'll remove the propellor shaft input today and take it for a drive to see if this stops the noise. If not it will be the bearings (hopefully nothing else) in the diff itself.

[TomdeGuerre]

Just looking at the length of those studs (on the last photograph) for holding on the propshaft and I'll bet you five bitcoins you;ll have to drop the transfer box to get the propshaft off. I'm assuming there's a slider joint on the shaft but even so. I've dealt with some of these 4x4 set ups before and alls I;m saying is the guys that design these things never make it easy. They probably don't have big families because they'll likely do it standing up drunk in a hammock.

[kiwitonita]

You're right I'm sure!! Well I'm pleased to report that the rear half of the propshaft came off without any bother as there was a joint half way down the car (shown in the photo). There was just enough "slack" to remove it and leave the front half of the shaft unmolested. Took it for a drive on smooth seal near here (most NZ roads are course stone chip seal) and it was a lot quieter. So will arrange a drive later while I sit in the back and listen a bit more. The other day when I did that I took off the cover to the jack storeage area and the noise was suddenly louder.

Weird looking studs on the front of the diff. Two sizes of thread but only the smaller engaged with the nut.

Update: A ride in the back confirmed it's still noisy, though much less so and once familiar with the tone can be heard in the drivers seat.

[kiwitonita]

Good news, removed the diff today (very easy) and my friend separated off the electric clutch, then the circlips then eased the housing apart with 2 large screw divers. No press required. This enabled easy removal of a very rough bearing so hopefully will pick up a new NSK 6911V or equivalent (80mm x 55mm x 13mm) tomorrow. They are about NZ$45 here. Will load some photos afterwards.

[TomdeGuerre]

Are you talking pinion bearing or carrier bearing? Must say when I read your original post about getting a whine I thought you'd be lucky if it was a bearing because whine whether on drive or overrun usually means pinion and crownwheel engagement. No matter, hope you've cracked it.

Just a thought, given that your car has only done 80,000 kilometres and this bearing has gone you have to look for cause(s). You have an electric clutch which prompts me to ask if you have a seperate ground lead on the diff casing? Possibility if there's a faulty ground when the clutch is engaged there might be a magnetic field being created and there's nothing guaranteed to ruin bearings quicker (well, apart from no oil or sand / water in the oil!).

[kiwitonita]

The replacement of one worn bearing in the electric clutch went very well. We had no need to open the diff thank goodness. The NSK 6911 bearing was NZ$50. The other, larger bearing in the clutch felt perfect so was left alone. The worn bearing was removed and fitted without a bearing puller or press, though these items would make it a little easier. I guess it will happen again in another 80,000 km but it's only a half day job. Next time I will know here's no need to remove the entire diff, just the clutch on the front.

Removing and re-fitting the rear section of the propeller shaft is easier if the saddle bracket on the front end of it is removed so as to give slightly more play between it and the rear of the mid prop shaft. A few photos are attached in case they are of any interest.

I still have no English language text on this part of the car. The NZ Toyota people say there will be a complete Japanese language service manual for the whole car available but if I wanted any portion translated I'd have to pay. As if I'm the first English speaking person in the world enquiring?? If the 4WD model was officially exported to South Africa - in which case there would be an English version available.

Next job is to try out a OBD bluetooth device with Torque on the Android phone - the plug should be here tomorrow. Then find an Android Media Player that will connect at least one of the 2 cameras on the car. The existing factory Matsu****a 86120-44160 unit has a lousy screen, being very yellow. The FM band range for Japan is too low to get most NZ stations. The idea is to be able to use Garmin compatible open source NZ maps running on the android system.

Edit: Interesting to see the Japanese brand name of the media unit being "auto-censored" which is a shame for those using the full name as a search. If possible, can the moderator allow the full use of the trade name?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Matsushita was auto censored due to the last part of the name. Matsushita Electric Industrial is more commonly known as Panasonic Corporation and the majority of their products are branded as Panasonic.

[Tony Maskell]

Hi, I have an import Estima awd with the same rear diff, mine has the same symptoms and would like to pick your brains if I may? Here is a Link to the part number list for this diff. Could you let me know which bearing you changed? and where the circlips are situated?

Many thanks Tony 

[kiwitonita]

Hi, I think it is part 41201B .  Deep groove ball bearing, ID 55mm, OD 80mm, Width 13mm.   There are circlips but I cannot remember anything about them.  6th, 7th & 8th photos above partially show them. The parts page does not have the word 'circlip'.  I really should have added text labels to the pics - they are a bit useless otherwise. 

Odd though that the drawings do not show the electromagnetic 'coil' as a separate part.  Looks like if that goes open circuit then a whole new assembly is required.

All the best with your repair.  Hopefully post some more useful photos than mine

[Tony Maskell]

Thanks for your quick reply, i thought it was that one. I will be looking at it this week and will post a few more photo's to help anyone else. Did you have the car up on a 4/2 post lift or just jacked up and on stands? Thanks again :)

Tony

[kiwitonita]

Just used a small trolley jack to get the rear end up onto stands.  A couple of LED potable floodlights or the like is a big help too.  As the concrete driveway is not very smooth I find the use of large plastic 'corflute' sheets extremely helpful for easier moving around under the car.  Also keeps any oil drips off the concrete.  There's always acres of this stuff to be had free after the elections and of course real estate signs. 

[Tony Maskell]

not a problem with the driveway as we have just had it redone (super smooth) plus we have a car creeper to wiz around on. Thanks again :)

Tony

[Tony Maskell]

Hi Tony. we are in the middle of changing the bearings and have hit a snag, could you tell me how you separated the magnetic guts from the housing?  see picture

[kiwitonita]

Sorry, I can't remember.  A friend who is a mechanic did that part after studying it and the drawings for a while.  I was with him in his rented home garage which has not got a vice, press or any special tools at all.  I think we just levered out with 2 large screwdrivers in the end.  I'll ask him if he recalls how but it will be about 8hrs before he can answer my message as he will be at work now.  I know we were very careful with the wires to the electromagnet.

These pages from the very helpful Russian http://toyota-club.net site were helpful too and should have been included earlier sorry.  These pages are in Engilsh:

Toyota all-wheel drive. ATC / DTC coupling

Toyota 4WD review (1)

Toyota ATC 4WD coupling repair

[Tony Maskell]

Thanks Tony. Very useful info there. We managed to strip it down as both bearings are shot. I will put a full write up on here when I get the new bearings in a couple of days.

Cheers Tony

[kiwitonita]

Excellent to hear and well done on getting it apart.  Luckily for me just the one bearing was shot, the other was deemed to be in really good order.  As this vehicle will be doing only about 5,000 km a year at the most hopefully it will stay that way for a while.

[Mr. Mike]

Greetings all,

I'm hoping this post remains active.

I have a US 2009 Pontiac Vibe AWD, 2.4 Liter, 4 speed auto, (Matrix without the lipstick), acquired used at 157000 miles.

The unit displayed a constant AWD lamp which on further inspection was an open circuit at the rear diff electromagnetic coupler wires broken.

The unit was removed by lowering the intermediate drive shaft mounts tapping the coupler lightly side to side.

I removed the snap rings and pressed the housing off the clutch assembly (larger output to drive shaft bearing removed) no problem.

Once benched and cleaned up it was evident the smaller input side roller bearing was shot.

Appears on drawings above in this post, there may be a gland seal further in, wrapping the main shaft internally.

There is a floating (tab pinned) Bearing retainer ring which appears to hold this bearing but also seems to carry the solenoid connector with it.

I detailed the image below taken form post above to demonstrate the parts involved.

My first question is if this unit is as it seems to suggest in post above, may be a "wet" clutch pack assembly inside?

And how do I disassemble the unit without damaging what seems is a suspended solenoid assembly captive to the bearing retainer ring?

I have typical garage / bench tools, can fabricate tools as needed and have a 3 prong puller or hydraulic press I can work with.

I'm amazed these units appear to be in use outside the US well before 2009 when they were included in the US mid 2008 Vibe/Matrix models.

There are 4 part number revisions on this particular clutch unit Toyota recognizes for US distribution.

The internals of the clutch however are NOT supported by Toyota US and so I must service the unit's repair / rebuild myself.

We have a spare coupler we installed but this too has a slight growl / whine on the larger output bearing to the drive shaft.

It will be serviced next after this one is done to swap back out.

I also noticed there is a tear in the Differential pinion output shaft seal I assume is a typical serviceable seal.

I would greatly, GREATLY appreciate any guidance.  I really don't want to damage the unit getting it apart.

The solenoid measures 2.1 ohms as it should and shows not to be grounded, so the coil is fine, the wires I can re-attach easily.

Thanks much for any suggestions / procedure.

Mike

Edited December 24, 2018 by Mr. Mike
Add image to post

[Mr. Mike]

Bump *

Not being impatient but having debated to re-raised an old thread I'd rather not duplicate to a new thread.

There must be a few die-hards hanging out who have seen further details on this clutch internals.

I don't speak Russian or Asian, but we see why this design went by the way side.

Thanks again,

Mike

[Heidfirst]

Hi Mike, welcome to TOC 🙂

a couple of things:

• this is primarily an UK based forum & I don't think that your vehicle was ever sold here hence very few will be able to offer advice
• I believe that it is against the forum rules to bump threads
• it is Christmas Eve here - many people are rather busy preparing for Xmas tomorrow ... 😜

Merry Xmas 🎅

[Mr. Mike]

Understood thank you.

The rear coupler in question is the same in UK as in other countries, simply to match the design shown is sufficient.

It was in use before 2004 in Japan, then Vibe / Matrix in US / UK after mid 2008- 2010.

Then upgraded to Rav4 style beyond that time.

I'll hope patiently for after the holiday or try to disassemble and hope I don't destroy it.  They are very hard to find in the US now after weeks to obtain a spare which also requires mild service.

My apologies for frustration after hours spent searching and thank you again for your understanding.😞

Mike