Bg244

[Avalon]

I had an issue with hesitation/stutter and in the process of investigating it, it was suggested that running a treatment of BG244 may help. Now I'm a firm believer in using branded fuel, not because it's different (it's all essentially the same and from the same bunkers), but because the bit that is different (the additive package) is worth it. With my engine having seen the best part of 100k I figured the internals could do with a decent clean up rather than the progressive clean up of using high detergent fuels such as BP Ultimate to do the job gradually.

In the process of fault finding I'd done the usual service items including the oil/oil filter, fuel filter, air filter as well as checking the intake and vacuum carefully and the i'd also stripped/cleaned the EGR. With the benefit of all of this I hoped i'd see slight improvements anyway but I wasn't expecting miracles. Normally I'd have run a minimum of 3 brimmed tanks before hand, averaged the results so I had a base figure and then run the BG244 through to give an indication of what if any change I noticed. Given we're not too far away from winter fuel additive packages and colder weather and this will throw off any results more significantly than the likely benefit I decided against it, besides i'm impatient :D I wasn't expecting massive improvements and had a base figure of 36 mpg over the two previous tanks to go from, it was pretty consistent with only a fractional variance which seemed well within normal.

The tin arrived well packed in the stated timescale, included the cardboard funnel to make filling easier so I followed the guide, shoved the full tin into the tank and brimmed it with a tank of Shell Fuel Save. I figured Nitro was overkill as as by the time I add the BG244 the detergent level should already be high enough to do the job. The site suggests that you should give it about a week to work (soak time) and drive normally, in that time i'd expect the so I did a mix of 'normal' driving followed by a decent run this weekend of 80 miles each way. 300 miles later I'm down to 1/4 of a tank at which point it's suggested you brim the tank again, the logic is you get 3/4 of a tank at high dose and then the next tank at a lower dose.

So after 300 miles and a week of soak/running I'm expecting to be able to see some benefits, higher 30's seems reasonable? It'd be nice to get over the 40 barrier as my old 3dr Rav used to be capable of 43mpg averages when I was doing 100 miles a day. This is a little newer but also bigger/heavier and doing shorter runs so I'd be happy with high 30's at this stage.

I go to the same garage and brim it with the same fuel and put the details into Road Trip, while doing so I notice the trip computer is 3mpg higher with almost identical average speed, so if the actual data backs that up I'll be happy.... Road Trip and it spits out 36mpg. Thirty six miles per gallon, if you take it to two decimal places I've managed the grand total of a 0.12mpg improvement which is well within the margin of error based on conditions, filling irregularities etc.

So what has BG244 actually given me over this tank? Well, at best my engine may have sounded fractionally less agricultural, but that could equally be down to the oil change/fuel choice as Shell tends to run a little more smoothly anyway. Trying to be objective (and not feel like I've burned £22 on possibly sounding fractionally less like a tractor) it could be that it's done it's work over the last 300 miles and removed build up/deposits and if that's the case then I could see the benefits over the next tank, it could also be that my driving pattern/loading is different over the tanks but this will be minimal. I'll continue to run the tank through and see what the next week brings.

I'd be interested to know of others experiences with BG244, am I expecting too much too soon?

[dervdave]

I'd be interested to know of others experiences with BG244, am I expecting too much too soon?

Probably expecting too much full stop.... it sounds like you look after your motor and so will already be cleaner than a neglected one who would`ve definately seen some improvements.

Its good stuff BG244, I use it once a year even though I use Shell V-Power laced with AR6200 and Opti-Lube XPD

[Avalon]

You might be right Dave, if it's already reasonably clean then it'll show little/no improvement. The trip computer average is up to 41 on this tank (only 100 miles in) so i'll wait it out and see what the data shows. How do you find the AR6200? I used to run millers but although my 1.9 PD sounded smoother and returned slightly better mpg it was basically cost neutral by the time you factor in the additive cost. I'd looked at the 6400D as a possible next step considering the variable vanes issues some have.

[dervdave]

I do feel a difference using them but my findings are subjective, theres not a massive difference with using any additive in either my Hilux or A6 1.9 tdi but not expecting there to be either.

I feel better using using them and the cost is worth it to me for peace of mind but if I was to be totally honest the use of Shell V-Power diesel just about covers most things.

Slightly off topic but worth a mention for anyone who cares for their motor and keen on additives is the engine oil Lube Gard http://www.lubegard.com/C-208/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant.

I`ve used many many over the years but this is my favourite of all, it really smooths and quietens the engines cold starts, my previous go to was ZX1 which I religiously put in every vehicle new and old.

[sich1]

I'd looked at the 6400D as a possible next step considering the variable vanes issues some have.

do you not mean ar6600 turbo cleaner? have used it in mine,and it worked when i had sticky vanes.

[Avalon]

Dave i've used ZX1 before, it may be co-incidence but the first time I used it my engine blew shortly afterwards, I didn't blame the additive (small highly tuned petrol turbo - it wasn't unexpected) but i've left my oil alone ever since.

I'd looked at the 6400D as a possible next step considering the variable vanes issues some have.

do you not mean ar6600 turbo cleaner? have used it in mine,and it worked when i had sticky vanes.

Possibly, i'd re-read the blurb before ordering :D Trip computer figure is still up above 40 but as it was higher last time and the actual numbers didn't back it up i'm going to wait and see. End of the day I know the last 3 tanks have all basically been 36.xx mpg so quite consistent. Anything over that i'll take, in hind sight perhaps my expectations were slightly high - time will tell.

[Avalon]

Well the numbers are in, I brimmed the tank this morning. My previous tanks are all withing the 36.xx mpg range from 36.44 at the lowest up to 36.89 on the BG244 treated fill but the big question is what's it managed after the 1/4 tank refill? . The 1/4 tank refill was done with Shell Fuel Save and before I get to the results the car has just under 98k on it and i've stripped/cleaned the EGR, given it an oil/filter service, cleaned the IC/pipework etc. It's driven similar routes/distances all week with an 80+ mile run each weekend with 2 adults and two kids + a w/e worth of stuff so each tank is broadly comparable. The trip computer indicates i've averaged 28mph average on the last tank and 30mph on this one but the trip computer mpg has increased from 36.8 to 39.4.

BG244 treated tank:

Calculated mpg 36.89

Trip mpg 39.4

Av. speed 28mph

1/4 Tank refill tank:

Calculated mpg 37.53

Trip mpg 40.8mpg

Av. speed 30mph

That's an increase of 0.64mpg, but i've averaged a massive 2mph increase in speed. Personally I see that as well within the margins of fill error, driving style, route, service work done, either way it's pretty insignificant.

Trying to be objective (again) I could have a really well maintained engine that's been fortunate enough not to bog down with the normal deposits formed during the combustion process, and therefore any cleaning product would yield very minimal improvements because it's not got that much sludge/gunk to clean. The EGR wasn't pristine, but the build up was very minimal if i'm honest compared to what i've seen from others photo's. It could also be argued that any cleaning benefit may go unseen without a before/after pic of injectors and testing flow rates and spray patterns, tank pics and checking out the engine internals, which lets be honest most people aren't equipped to do so it may have worked.

My gut feeling is if you use decent quality branded fuels with a decent detergent package and regularly service your car I suspect you'll see minimal gains. I suppose the next question is would I recommend BG244 or spend the money on it again? No. I'd spend the money on running BP Ultimate/Shell Nitro for a few consecutive tanks.

Again i'd be interested to know if anyone has had different experiences with BG244 or any of the other similar products on the D4D range :)

[Avalon]

Tank data is in again, it's dropped all of 1.76mpg taking me back to where I was pre treatment. Now factor in I've run a tank of the cheapest diesel in the area, not done the normal 90 mile each way run on a weekend, we've got colder weather and winter fuel additive will probably have been introduced by now. I'll run back to back tanks of the good stuff now and see what happens - I've developed an occasional delay in turbo spool which I'm putting down to the variable vane system on the turbo.

Either way if you are looking for some sort of miracle cure then BG244 didn't do anything meaningful for my car.

[sich1]

not that you could see! think positive it may stop you having an injector problem or something else further down the line.

[dervdave]

winter fuel additive will probably have been introduced by now.

16th November

[Cljcars]

I have used this stuff on few motors with descent results. Mondeo 2.2 tdci, just ongoing yearly treatment. Stopped, for a time, some smokey start ups on the Mondeo.

Also used petrol equivalent in a 4.6 range rover with a stumble uneven idle. Did no harm, but the stumble was something else. Seemed to smooth out idle.

Had a friend who used it to aid clean out a dpf on Saab that was going into regen mode to often. It worked, he said very well.

[Avalon]

not that you could see! think positive it may stop you having an injector problem or something else further down the line.

Possible, but given my injector values are about the same as previously I'm not holding my breath. I see a few tanks of Ultimate being the next test, back to back tanks may help.

winter fuel additive will probably have been introduced by now.

16th November

Oh great, still got it to look forward to then, that said I seem to remember it varies by region? We've been as low as 4c and as high as 14c in the last few weeks.

[Heidfirst]

we've seen -5 > +21C in the countryside in the last few weeks!

[Aqualung666]

Shortly after I bought my Rav I had the EGR fault and kangerood all the way to the garage who promptly cleaned it out and charged me £60 for the pleasure. I'd read about BG244 and as I do mainly short journeys I thought it might be worth giving it a go. So about a year later I filled the tank up and added the BG244. I didn't really notice any significant improvement with MPG, but it definatley made the engine run a lot smoother and I've continued to do this on a yearly basis and the EGR issue hasn't returned since doing this...and by rights it should have considering the short journeys I do. So For the sake of £25 per annum I reckon it's worth it if you are only doing short stop and start journeys, justto avoid the EGR getting sooted up and I assume it's also cleaning out other parts of the fuel system.

[Avalon]

While I agree it sounds slightly less agricultural with BG244 added that's about all I can say for it in my case. If I run Shell Nitro I get the same sort of change, same with BP Ultimate or Millers Eco Max. I'd love to say BG244 is amazing, but for me with this car, on this occasion, it failed to produce the desired results, I can't say why, but it didn't.

[dervdave]

There won`t be much difference if the fuel system is already clean, how can you clean something thats already clean ?

[Avalon]

That's just it, engine has done 100k, has an injector slightly out of spec and judging by the state of the fuel filter it's far from clean on the tank side of things. EGR wasn't bad, but not pristine and I believe the VV on the turbo is suffering from buildup as every once in a while it'll fail to make boost for a few seconds then it kicks in and is back to normal for a week or two, so it's not as clean as I'd like. Perhaps I used the wrong tool for the job, my logic was to clean from the tank end first with decent high detergent fuel to breakdown any buildup in the tank/lines pre fuel filter, in my case this seemed to work as the filter had a decent coating of sludge when I swapped it out, the combined effect of high detergent fuel and BG244 should also remove buildup post injection. The hope was carbon scavenging would yield results as far as the turbo, but perhaps your right, a tank of ultimate may have done the majority of cleaning before the BG244 was added.

[dervdave]

I think your logic is just about spot on and could the car probably do with another BG244 to help get all the filth out the system, it won`t do much for your turbo issues though so would better off using a couple of bottles of Forte turbo cleaner or the better but more expensive Archoil AR6600 and continued use of Shell V-Power

[Avalon]

Well 10 months on i'm revisiting this issue.

Same car, 104k on the clock, lifetime mpg average 33.44mpg though the last tank (of BP Ultimate) was up to 36.79mpg after two decent runs totaling 190 miles. I'm running the latest tank (a mix of Shell V Power and BP Ultimate) through along with the usual dose of Millers then it's time to get to the bottom of this. My gut instinct is it's carbon build up on the control ring/variable vane assembly. Reasoning being it will hold boost once it kicks in (i've data logged it), SCV's have been done previously, injectors seem within spec, turbo compressor wheel seems to have no obvious play. The car drives fine 95% of the time, it's only issue is an occasional lack of boost which you can feel kick in 5-10 secs after it should. It doesn't do it all the time but it's seemingly more common when it's under load and/or in a higher gear. I've added Millers Eco Boost to every tank since October which seemingly has improved the engine smoothness and injector values (which seem now to be within spec now) and I can find no obvious issues with the injector seats or leaks in the boost pipework and it's had SCV's done previously. I'll be servicing the car fully in the next week or two, i've not pulled the schedule (yet) but I know the belt is due and on top of the usual checks and a few bits of trim/wrapping to do:

• Front/rear box fluids.
• Engine oil and filters +air filter
• Coolant (Toyota LL).
• PAS top up (i'll investigate if it's leaked into the gaiter etc. as it shouldn't be down and it is slightly though hasn't dropped over the last 12 months and concievably could have been that way for years).
• Full brake fluid change, rear disc's and pads as i'm sick of looking at the box sat on the shelf.
• EGR strip - as much to see what my diet of non branded fuel and Millers has yielded.

Depending on the state of the EGR (it was pretty clean last time) I may end up stripping the turbo to inspect the control ring. It'll likely turn a straight forward job into an all day job unfortunately as 10 years and all those hot/cold cycles won't do me any favors dismantling it.

Idle (hot) injector values:

1. -1.717
2.  0.003
3. -0.466
4. 1.722

From what I can tell #4 is always 'out' on the 2.0 D4D, but they're all within Toyota's spec, i'm debating if it's worth having them flow tested and cleaned ultrasonically.

Does anyone have any other suggestions other suggestions, a friend swears by Terraclean on his diesel, but as it's a highly refined fuel rather than a intake treatment i'm not convinced it'll do that much to the control ring issue and a can of Wurth's Turbo Cleaner/Revvive seem like a shot in the dark vs doing it 'properly'. Before I do this have I missed anything obvious? You know the kind of thing that'll have me crying like a girl when I pop the turbo open only to discover that it's clean and the control ring is fine?

Thanks :)