no acceleration, idle high but stalls, which sensor??

[dei9]

Hi all,

Just a quick one really. I have a 1.4VVti 2001. I think it's been wrapped in cotton wool a bit so need a bit of TLC as it's not been exposed (driven over a decent rpm range).

Anyway it's new to me and it runs like a pig: Idles high 1100, but seems to fluctuate and settles at over 1000rpm, the idle drop a lot and sometimes stalls before settling after dropping the clutch coming to a junction.

It's drivable but it has no life, you just know it could freely accelerate at any point but chooses not to, it's not nippy in any sense of the word, my gf has a yaris 1.0 with an obscenely loose timing chain and that could run rings around this one easily. My car doesn't seem to have a loose rattle chain. It also burns oil a lot, and I would put this down to it running rich and the oil being diluted and burned off with the fuel when I drive it hard.

Diagnostic check comes up with a P1346 (VVT sensor, Camshaft Position Sensor, Circuit Range, Performance Problem).

I've read about the VVT filter and this other filter, can anyone point me to a guide somewhere? Would a slick cleaner before an oil change start loosening things up until I can get the VVTI solenoid out? I also remember reading about some other solenoid somewhere? Which one is it again?

That's it for now, I'll wait for some suggestions, thanks.

Dei

[dei9]

I had a go at removing the VVT solenoid yesterday, it was stiff to come out, so time ran out and I put it back in. This morning it's running better, so I guess it's related to that.

I did have a go at spraying intake cleaner down the intake last night too and topped the oil up. I don't think the intake or (MAP sensor is the issue tbh). So I'll have a go at solenoid again later on.

What are your opinions on Wynn's Engine Flush? I'm thinking to do it before an oil change. Which brings me to the oil. I use the Magnatec 5w30 (can't remember the variant as such, possibly C5), Halfords  suggest the Edge 5w30 (C3?), which is £46 for 5 litres. Shall I just go for that and see how I get along? It can't be worse than whats already in it now right.

Thanks.

[oldcodger]

When you say it  " burns a lot of oil "  do you mean it used  eg 1 ltr per 1000 miles or its smoking a lot ?

Have used Magnatec 5w/30 which is fully synth without problems typically 500ml per 10,000 miles.

Would Edge make any difference, think its really aimed a higher / harder working performance motors ?

Used to used Wyns engine flush on my old high mileage Avensis 1.8 and it did seem to clear things out, making it run quieter on start up etc. -seems it the kind of thing that get so many divided opinions, just follow the cans instructions.

The intake flap could affect your running, so another clean might make it even better.

No mention of changing /checking the air filter or spark plugs, both could seriously reduce performance.

" I've read about the VVT filter and this other filter "   you have got me there... ??  Air filter, oil filter , pollen filter and fuel filter in the tank  , don't know of any others that are user changeable ?

 

[dei9]

there is a gauze filter inside the vvt solenoid apparently and one in the oil control valve on the right hand side...

currently doing a flush and oil change, but its 10w40 instead of 5w30, not sure if it will make much of a difference to be honest. Either way it's getting clean oil and a new filter.

 

I'll report back on the outcome though, thanks 

[roks]

There is ocv filter by the alternater, its by itself a 12mm bolt I think abd the filter issitting in there, long nose pliers helps.

Also, be careful when removing the ocv, keep it square to the engine....ie pull straight out dont bend it. Its stiff by the o-ring so be careful not to damage o-ring if you are going to wedge it out.

The oil I use is 5w30 A1 or A5 for petrol...the C varient is diesel I believe. 

[oldcodger]

52 minutes ago, dei9 said:

there is a gauze filter inside the vvt solenoid apparently and one in the oil control valve on the right hand side...

currently doing a flush and oil change, but its 10w40 instead of 5w30, not sure if it will make much of a difference to be honest. Either way it's getting clean oil and a new filter.

 

I'll report back on the outcome though, thanks 

Not aware of any reference to a filter within the solenoid or if its even a serviceable item, the ocv filter yes.

Your 10W40, is that full or semi synth ?  - general forum comment , moving from full to semi can cause problems, plus if 5w/30 full synth is the recommended type for your engine, that is what the vvt assembly is designed to work with.

[dei9]

well it's running on 10w40 now as per Eurocarparts recommendation, they were willing to sell me 5w30 at my own risk.

It's a bit more responsive but the flat spots are still there. I had more joy movings the vvt solenoid last night, it idled bettet this morning until I floored it after which it came back to its old self of idling high again.

I am sure there is a blockage in the oil channels of the camshaft timing sprocket thing which is fed by the vvt solenoid. I feel the sprocket is such that its out of time at idle and stuck as of its on cam if that makes sense.

[oldcodger]

What about a faulty solenoid itself ?

[dei9]

Possibly, when I pull it out i'll connect 12v to it and see/hear if it clicks.

To anyone who's got it out before, does it just come out after removing that bolt which holds it in place?

Oh forgot to mention that the plugs and air filter are new.

Thanks

Edited June 7, 2016 by dei9
wanted to add fact that plugs and air filter been changed by me

[dei9]

So I took out the VVT solenoid, its snapped inside, I got most of it out but there is a bit that it still stuck inside.

So does anyone have any ideas on how I can get the other piece out through the hole? I can start it off by pulling the other end (the one with screw like end) out with long nosed pliers but there is a lot of resistance.

Can I get to it if I take the valve cover off or does timing chain covers need to come off too. Would it catch on the chain if I leave it in?

Also I plugged the solenoid with 12V it doesn't move much, so I think it's broken.

So any ideas on how to remove this broken part from the engine?

Thanks 

[oldcodger]

Ouch, that really is a bummer !  

If you look on the web ,seems they do break, though is it the force of removal or  its normal operation thats fractured them ?

Would be interesting to see a pic of the part removed; how much of the actual central piston is left in.

The obvious way to get it out would seem to be inserting a suitable tap and try  ''!Removed! " out , though the remains of the piston may need drilling out to allow the tap in.  However all the swarf created by doing that , assume some would find its way into the block / oil ways which is even more of a problem, major engine strip down i would assume !

Wonder if quickly running the engine for a second or two, the oil pressure  would blow the broken half out ?

Can you get some suitable  pliers to hold the end of it ? perhaps just rotating it along with some  penetrating fluid might loosen it enough to withdraw it ?

If no one comes in with a proven removal method, then it might be worth speaking to your local Toyota service dept and see what they say.

Also Parts King aka Kingo , a Toyota dealer who frequents the forum and supplies parts to members, he might have heard of this problem and if its possible to remove it , so worth a PM to him if he does not see this post.

 

 

[dei9]

There it is... The only thing I've tried is pulling it with pliers, but the slip and it flicks back and then I got to root for it again. I want to be able to drive it from Wales to Liverpool tomorrow :-s If I can just get it out, plug the bigger part back in and see if it's drivable. But I think i explains the odd clacketing I kept hearing. It must have been loose or cracked for a while (I think), I don't feel like I broke it when removing it.

Oh I managed to get the spring from the end too before it falls and disappears.

But i'd be interested to know if its possible to push it out with the valve cover off only.

Thanks.

[oldcodger]

Afraid have no idea of the oil ways for that part or if there is an opening at the bottom end ?

This is where you really need someone who has worked on one of these damaged units.

Just wonder if somewhere on the remaining part there is a opening in its case that you could get a hook or something like id calipers into and pull it out that way ?

 

[dei9]

I guess good alignment, persistence and penetrating oil will help a lot.

From what I gather, I could still drive around with this part loose inside because it doesn't appear near the timing gears or chain not does it appear near the valves, it seems to be inside an oil channel (other than blocking it). So I could put the other part in just to seal it until I get back. But to crank it by hand to listen that it doesn't hit anything.

Update: So I put it back together making sure to line up the broken inner part with the broken part I would insert. The broken part "seems" to not go in too far if pushing inward (but it can disappear down the side if you flick too much). SoIt started, but VERY roughly, idles lower (400rpm) and smokes oil badly. I drove it up the road and ir drives REALLY well, albeit with smoking oil from behind. I guess the broken part is loose and floating around the oil channel hence letting too much oil up or down. So based on that idea, it may fix high oil consumption for my particular car.

Got a new solenoid ordered though, but had to leave the car in Wales. Be back on the weekend to get that broken part out. So I'm open to any suggestions.

Thanks for your support oldcodger. Could do with some suggestions off others if anyone has any ideas.

Thanks 

Edited June 9, 2016 by dei9
Update and edit for more relevance to oldcodgers suggestions

[dei9]

Ok, so I managed to get the broken part out. I tapped it with a thread cutter and by chance it gripped into it, and I pulled it out. New one in and now it works well. Today I cleaned the OCV filter. It's still burning oil badly. The funny thing is, the error code still comes up. Sometimes the oil doesn't burn much, other times it's quite bad, it doesn't seem to be burning oil at a consistent rate, other times there are big puffs of smoke. I wonder if the OCV is getting a faulty signal and oil is forced to the wrong part or collects somewhere thus has to be burned off? 

Anyway, any replies would be good. Thanks

[oldcodger]

Glad you got the remains of that valve out without too much more trouble  !

Have to ask, but assume you have cleared the old error codes ?

How does it drive now , is it still slow as you mentioned in the opening post ?

 

Oil burning can be many things and quiet a few causes in this US link might be of interest.

Valve stem seals could be the cause, if little used they could have perished though lack of lub. They typically give a bust of whitish smoke when you acellerate after a long downhill stretch where your foot has been off the gas.

 A cylinder compression test should show up faulty piston /rings /bores or valve seats

Not too dear, £10 + on eBay or £20 from Screwfix/ECP etc

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Discussion-c3596_ds482220

[dei9]

Yea, I check for codes and clear every few days. I haven't checked it since I cleared it after I cleaned the filter today.

I drives MUCH better now, it's surprisingly quick. I has an even constant torque all over the engine range and comes on cam quite hard at about 4700rpm.

I'll check that link out, thanks for that. I've seen that post on toyotanation forum for the oil consumption fix where the guy replaces the piston rings, valve stem seals, bearings (if need be), I can do the work, but can I be bothered? If it passes the MOT in august (which I am not sure it will given the oil consumption), I'll do the work, otherwise I'll scrap it.

As for compression test, I was meaning to do it, my dad has lost my compression tester. So thanks for reminding me.