Does Avensis Need The Timing Chain Replaced As A Routine?

[spidey]

hi

I was wondering whether anyone is able to advise me as to the need for a 'Timing Chain' to be replaced in an Avensis after 100,000 miles. I have looked online and everyone says that a 'Timing Chain' is for life of the engine for most cars. Toyota Garages,Toyota UK ,Toyota Warranty, Toyota Tech website and their Tech helpline also confirm that they DO NOT have a policy for change as a routine and in general one does not need a Timing Chain replaced at all. But some Garages continue to do that as a routine quoting it as a Toyota Policy! :(

Has anyone come across any documentation to support this or have any views regarding this? Please help.

[igormus]

hi

I was wondering whether anyone is able to advise me as to the need for a 'Timing Chain' to be replaced in an Avensis after 100,000 miles. I have looked online and everyone says that a 'Timing Chain' is for life of the engine for most cars. Toyota Garages,Toyota UK ,Toyota Warranty, Toyota Tech website and their Tech helpline also confirm that they DO NOT have a policy for change as a routine and in general one does not need a Timing Chain replaced at all. But some Garages continue to do that as a routine quoting it as a Toyota Policy! :(

Has anyone come across any documentation to support this or have any views regarding this? Please help.

hello

my Toyota's mechanic told me in private (!) that both engine and chain serve the same time.

forget all doubts. it is self explained :)

cheers/Igor

[MW0ELC]

Are you sure your garage is not confusing chains with belts, as belts are changed at 100k ?

[cmia]

chains not replaced

other belts will need to be replaced

[Aamir2892]

Are you sure your garage is not confusing chains with belts, as belts are changed at 100k ?

I thought the belt gets replaced at 60,000 miles. Is anyone 110% certain that the chain never needs replacing. Some people say 100,000 miles and some people say never. What do you believe!!! I thought as its a metal chain why would it need replacing?

[moonstone mart]

Never changed a chain in nearly 6 years of working at Toyota main dealer.

Only time a chain needs replacing is if the engine is very poorly maintained and causes damage to the chain making the engine noisy.

Mart.

[Q.S.]

Never changed a chain in nearly 6 years of working at Toyota main dealer.

Only time a chain needs replacing is if the engine is very poorly maintained and causes damage to the chain making the engine noisy.

Mart.

Only time I have changed timing chains it has been either on a full engine overhaul or years ago on things like BMC engines or Ford engines (back in the 70's/80's) when the tensioners would wear and chain would become noisy. The only exception I can think of was a Mercedes 5 cylinder diesel (fitted to the 310D van if memory serves me correctly), they had basically added a cylinder to a 4 cylinder design and the chain wasn't up to the job. The extra load from the camshaft and fuel pump made the chain stretch, this was rectified by Mercedes under extended warranty with a beefed up chain.

[spidey]

Are you sure your garage is not confusing chains with belts, as belts are changed at 100k ?

Hi

Yes, its the Timing Chain itself! That's the reason I was floored by the need and obviously the price for a chain is far higher than a belt. Its just one way Garages get to take us on a real ride. I must confess I looked it up and investigated only after realizing the price for the same as I had even assumed belt/chain were the same! But I have now been educated and the said Garage have even agreed that they may have been misguided(!!!) and would stop doing the same in the future B) to other customers!

[King Nate]

On 5/21/2009 at 6:29 AM, Aamir2892 said:

I thought the belt gets replaced at 60,000 miles. Is anyone 110% certain that the chain never needs replacing. Some people say 100,000 miles and some people say never. What do you believe!!! I thought as its a metal chain why would it need replacing?

Belts get replaced at 60,000 miles or 10,000 km and timing chains are meant to be replaced at 100,000 miles or 161,000 km due to wear and tear like any chain.

[yossarian247]

3 hours ago, King Nate said:

Belts get replaced at 60,000 miles or 10,000 km and timing chains are meant to be replaced at 100,000 miles or 161,000 km due to wear and tear like any chain.

Why if it has no signs of wear? I've have known D-4D Avensis taxis with 350k+ miles on the clock and never heard of any needing a replacement timing chain. There is no fixed interval for timing chain replacement on these engines.

[rado_d9]

If there is no reason, no noise coming out then chain replacing is not justified. I would suggest to take an eye on it during v-belt, tensioners and water pump replacing. It costs only half an hour to get to the chain and check the loose.

Timming belts needs to be replaced of course, first interval as manufacturer says, later make it shorter and shorter like first 100k, then 80k especially when using parts other than manufacturers brand due to constantly lowering quality.

[avensis_2018]

Dont touch the timing, you dont neet to, in all toyota cars. 

This avebsis is the best reliable car.

[Konrad C]

11 hours ago, avensis_2018 said:

Dont touch the timing, you dont neet to, in all toyota cars. 

This avebsis is the best reliable car.

So long as the car is regularly serviced properly! The oil replacement service is very important, especially for engines with chain driven camshafts. Yes the Avensis is generally reliable, but there are the odd faults that can appear.

[rado_d9]

Proper oil changing intervals are very important. Do not trust the commercials that there is any longlife oil. Its bull...ts! Oils contains corrosions inhibitors which are there for acids neutralisation which are coming out with a small amout during the combustion process. There are two schools about timming chain changing. In my opinion: this is a moving part which makes a lot of revolution during its lifecycle. Wear and tear exists and noone can deny. I am going to check my timmingchain and if ill see an excessive loose: i will consider to change it.

Best regards

Rad

[avensis_2018]

No wear and no tear, dont need to touch it at all manufactor lifetime reliable,same as auto oil change, you just need to take it out of your head thats it. Just leave it, i know its a kind of "boaring car" that nothing brakes (i have already 2 avensis)you want to spend money on something, go put a new set of tyres, go to a good restorant, Enjoy from this car.

[TonyHSD]

17 hours ago, rado_d9 said:

Proper oil changing intervals are very important. Do not trust the commercials that there is any longlife oil. Its bull...ts! Oils contains corrosions inhibitors which are there for acids neutralisation which are coming out with a small amout during the combustion process. There are two schools about timming chain changing. In my opinion: this is a moving part which makes a lot of revolution during its lifecycle. Wear and tear exists and noone can deny. I am going to check my timmingchain and if ill see an excessive loose: i will consider to change it.

Best regards

Rad

If you haven’t got any rattling noises on cold start or while driving, no timing issues or valve train noises there is no need to change or inspect a Toyota timing chain. The chain itself has yellow marks and if on inspection turns that these marks has vanished then means the chain been overheated and possibly stretched and it is a good time to replace. If the engine is running fine best not to open it and touch it at all. Less you intervene without reason longer your car will last. Only repair or replace parts when faulty or broken. Regular service on time with genuine or high quality aftermarket parts is the key for trouble free motoring. 👍

[avensis_2018]

Avensis is the most reliable car that you don't need to do almost nothing except normal routine of changing oil\filter and you ask to mess with the timing .... 🙂

relax man. enjoy this.

[rado_d9]

?Who knows that sentence: "is essential trust, love and control".

I am not going to do anything witch timming without any reason. My 200k miles car works perfectly, no signs, no noises coming from timming so ill leave it for now.

[Seb_90]

On 5/11/2023 at 11:55 PM, rado_d9 said:

If there is no reason, no noise coming out then chain replacing is not justified. I would suggest to take an eye on it during v-belt, tensioners and water pump replacing. It costs only half an hour to get to the chain and check the loose.

Timming belts needs to be replaced of course, first interval as manufacturer says, later make it shorter and shorter like first 100k, then 80k especially when using parts other than manufacturers brand due to constantly lowering quality.

How do you get to it so quick? I thouught you would need to take the valve cover off?

 

[Guest]

If you're talking about the 1WW / 2WW, the tech documentation says "This is a chain driven engine and no replacement is required during normal service life".  So what is 'normal service life'?  

Toyota's dealer / service system only goes up to 10 years / 125,000 miles so I would make the presumption this is what they deem the normal life of the vehicle, as at 10 they expect you to eventually be thinking about its replacement. 

At 10 years or 125,000 I'll be replacing mine - whether it's needed or not. Because in any case the chain, even the genuine one from Toyota, is going to be much cheaper than a new engine or car. We'll be doing it DIY. But I won't have kept it, servicing it twice a year / every 6,000 miles with the genuine oil to have the chain being loose leading to issues. 

Also, on the fraudulent BMW engines as mine that have somehow found their way inside Toyota's, they were known to have chain issues. Granted it was over a decade ago in BMW / Mini cars, and was apparently long resolved by later revisions... It's highly likely that Toyota took particular care to ensure any chain issues were solved before their 1WW / 2WW but with not much being said on exactly which changes they made, I would take no chances.

I think it speaks volumes that they 'require' the genuine oil 'for 1WW / 2WW' even ithe owners manual, whereas for petrol engines it says 'genuine or equivalent grade'. There is surely an additive in here which keeps these components happy. 

Perhaps if the instructions are followed to a tee, then this will indeed be a reliable and happy chain system. But nothing moving under pressure will last forever.

I remember my mums little 1.0 2004 Corsa that I drove for the first year after I passed, those things sounded like diesels 100,000 miles in because of the stretch in the chain that would constantly be shaking / loose. Of course, those things tend to keel over not long after that sadly haha 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, SB1500 said:

If you're talking about the 1WW / 2WW, the tech documentation says "This is a chain driven engine and no replacement is required during normal service life".  So what is 'normal service life'?  

Toyota's dealer / service system only goes up to 10 years / 125,000 miles so I would make the presumption this is what they deem the normal life of the vehicle, as at 10 they expect you to eventually be thinking about its replacement. 

At 10 years or 125,000 I'll be replacing mine - whether it's needed or not. Because in any case the chain, even the genuine one from Toyota, is going to be much cheaper than a new engine or car. We'll be doing it DIY. But I won't have kept it, servicing it twice a year / every 6,000 miles with the genuine oil to have the chain being loose leading to issues. 

Also, on the fraudulent BMW engines as mine that have somehow found their way inside Toyota's, they were known to have chain issues. Granted it was over a decade ago in BMW / Mini cars, and was apparently long resolved by later revisions... It's highly likely that Toyota took particular care to ensure any chain issues were solved before their 1WW / 2WW but with not much being said on exactly which changes they made, I would take no chances.

I think it speaks volumes that they 'require' the genuine oil 'for 1WW / 2WW' even ithe owners manual, whereas for petrol engines it says 'genuine or equivalent grade'. There is surely an additive in here which keeps these components happy. 

Perhaps if the instructions are followed to a tee, then this will indeed be a reliable and happy chain system. But nothing moving under pressure will last forever.

I remember my mums little 1.0 2004 Corsa that I drove for the first year after I passed, those things sounded like diesels 100,000 miles in because of the stretch in the chain that would constantly be shaking / loose. Of course, those things tend to keel over not long after that sadly haha 

For your bmw engine you will need to double check if it requires the engine and transmission out of the car and separating both to get access to the chain as many later bmw engines has a timing chain fitted on the clutch side between engine and gearbox. If that’s the case with yours then a diy job is more difficult and you will need a ramp and engine stand to secure it out of the car. , a garage too as I don’t see it like a driveway job tbh. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

For your bmw engine you will need to double check if it requires the engine and transmission out of the car and separating both to get access to the chain as many later bmw engines has a timing chain fitted on the clutch side between engine and gearbox. If that’s the case with yours then a diy job is more difficult and you will need a ramp and engine stand to secure it out of the car. , a garage too as I don’t see it like a driveway job tbh. 

We have a garage and a way of lifting the car or engine out if needed, but we don’t have unlimited height in the garage.  Hardest job we ever did was a gearbox out one on the Panda a few years ago.  I think I’ll definitely look into this. Maybe I’ll be lucky if it’s a lower end / more basic engine given it was the N47 / N57 from the Mini / 1 series and not one of the massive thirsty ones that fills up an engine bay (possibly why they did it like that?) 

is it safe to assume that despite what Toyota did / didn’t change, that they wouldn’t have changed it ‘that much’. Meaning if I find the N47 / N57 did require both parts out, then it will be the same with the 1WW/2WW?

[yossarian247]

Does anyone know of any cases of Avensis diesels, with either the Toyota or BMW engine, suffering from broken timing chains? I don't and there are some late BMW-engined Avensis around with well over 200k on the clock now. 

Frankly why worry about something that's never going to happen?

[Cyker]

Well it is natural to worry since a snapping chain will probably destroy the engine, but if it helps, in the time I've been here there have been so few posts about a chain breaking I could probably count them on one hand, and in all the cases I vaguely remember it was always down to negligence or abuse, usually something like the owner or previous owner not changing the oil for ages or using the wrong or poor quality oil, so if the car's being looked after and serviced properly it's very unlikely to happen.

With diesels it's even less likely - They run at lower RPM so the chain is under a less stress, plus with petrols, when petrol and PCV gasses get into the oil it weakens it, but since diesel is practically oil anyway it doesn't impact the oil's performance anywhere near as much.

[Guest]

On 5/16/2023 at 10:02 AM, yossarian247 said:

Does anyone know of any cases of Avensis diesels, with either the Toyota or BMW engine, suffering from broken timing chains? I don't and there are some late BMW-engined Avensis around with well over 200k on the clock now. 

Frankly why worry about something that's never going to happen?

The BMW N47/N57 (one that Toyota used and modified) certainly has scare stories of cars around the warranty end period snapping but it was early day of the engine and was long since sorted before Toyota and BMW worked together. For us, as buyers able to make the connection between the engines, I can only assume Toyota of all companies (so concerned about its reputation for reliability) would have opted for a different engine or partner if they believed the problems with the timing chain weren't solved by that time.  Though I'd really love to read a technical doc outlining exactly what Toyota changed.... but I do find it brilliant to imagine a bunch of Japanese engineers, taking the BMW engine and finding ways to 'improve' it, probably with their eyes closed! He he he...

As mentioned, and I can also see this, it's more scepticism about the BMW engine as opposed to anyone here whose truly had an awful experience with their Toyota with the 1WW/2WW.  I've tried to find and dig for as much info as I can on it as my Avensis has the 1WW. I'm one of those rare people who services the engine twice a year, using genuine oil and filters - so in the long term, years - maybe 10-15 years on the car, won't it be interesting to see how I fare versus others who use normal decent parts, versus those who will no doubt sign up and confess they have done zero maintenance and are paying the price?  

Older people around me have assured me that any engine realistically will last a long time if serviced well and not horsed.  I think the only people 'truly screwed' are the likes of those I saw on the FF with the Fiat TwinAir and of course, we've all heard about the Ford EcoBoost problems - these folks have been given numerous changed oil recommendations from the manufacturer and faced things like serious leaks from the first year.... I think if the 1WW / 2WW were the lemons we all fear, we'd have seen reports like this by now. 

I'd love to know more from owners of the 1WW / 2WW with 200k+ and what sort of issues if any they've had. Toyota's logic must have been something along the lines of 'the Europeans are the biggest fans of diesel in passenger cars so they probably know how to build one'.   I for one am glad they didn't partner with VAG on the horrendous TDI engines which seemed good up until about 2008 when they started making them complex beyond reasoning for emissions reasons. 

I suppose I'll see at the time when I get to 125k miles and if it's an engine out job, then maybe give it a miss unless we see scare stories by then. Otherwise I'd probably do it for the fun of it, assuming they don't want £800 plus for the genuine part.... lol