Clutch Vibration/judder

[Simon G]

I've just bought a 2003 Avensis, T3-X D4-D, so far I love the car however I think there might be a problem with the clutch. When I lift the clutch to change gear I can feel a bit of vibration from the engine coming through the pedal. I can feel this vibration/judder in all gears, but its more prominent in 1st and 2nd. I've also noticed that sometimes taking the car out of first gear can feel a little rough. Any ideas as to what this could be? Any suggestions would be much appreciated, Thanks.

[bjw]

Hello and welcome to the Toyota forum

This link may be of interest I do not know if it relates to your car

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=68895

[05D45]

Hello Simon,

My 2005 2.0 D4D T3-S does the same thing - except I can feel a 'judder' in the car whilst driving in the 1400 - 1800 rev range as well as feeling this vibration through the clutch pedal. So far my car has been given a clean bill of health by two Toyota dealers in the Dublin area of Ireland and at this point I'm running out of places to turn.

I'm not a mechanic, but I am an engineer - so I do know that things aren't right. This started to happen about 700 miles after I bought the car which had 31k on it at that stage. The thing that bothers me is that I suspect that because this doesn't show up as a fault on the mystical, infallible "Computer", that's as far as diagnosis goes... I'm not really sure if any of these guys are trained in fault-finding by the old seat-of-your pants and elimination process - it certainly wouldn't appear that way (in Ireland at any rate).

I'll keep a good eye on your thread - if you have any more luck than me in getting a good diagnosis then I'd be very grateful if you'd post up the result. Maybe if I had something concrete to take to the technician I could get somewhere...

Cheers,

Dave

[Simon G]

Thanks for that info Dave. I bought my car from the Carshop and its going back in for them to look at on saturday so I'll keep you posted on what they say.

I noticed this morning that at the biting point this vibration is so much that it causes an actual noise too, does yours do this in any of the gears?

Also, just to check that we have the same problem, when your car is running idle, if you put your foot on the clutch slightly, can you feel the pulsating vibration of the engine through the pedal? And do you find because of this its more difficult to make a smooth gear change?

Sorry for all the questions!

Thanks,

Simon

[05D45]

Hi Simon,

I definitely have the same problem in that when I rest my foot on the clutch pedal when the car is in neutral and idling, I feel the vibration of the engine - the vibration corresponds with the idle noise I'm hearing.

I can't say that I noticed an actual noise at the biting point in any gear, but then I rarely drive without music or the radio. I'll drive back from work this evening with the radio off and see if I can discern any noise.

The gear changes can be a bit hit and miss - if I'm very careful then there's usually no problem finding the gear, but if I'm driving without concentrating on driving very smoothly then I find the gear changes a bit clunky at times.

I'll be interested in the opinion Carshop come back to you with. The (Honda) dealer that I actually bought my car from has been reasonable-ish about my car but is deferring to the result from both Toyota dealers that have had the car.

The first dealer initially found a buckled front alloy which was actually causing a bit of a judder at higher speeds - 60mph and above, but when the car went back again about the underlying problem in the lower rev range, they gave it back within a half a day and said everything showed up fine on the diagnostics.

The Honda dealer took it to a second dealer on my request, but I wasn't there to demonsrate the problem and, to be honest, it's not a real 'in-your-face' shudder and quite easy to accelerate past, but it is quite annoying when trying to maintain steady speed in 5th around 40/50 mph.

I'm going to take it to yet a third dealer, request that (and pay for) the service manager or technician comes out for a drive with me and see if they'll at least diagnose it. I'll post up what comes of that.

Cheers,

Dave

[cmia]

sounds like the clutch is not being released correctly.

pressure plate or release bearing.

[05D45]

Thanks a million cmia,

I'll add that to my repetoire when I go to see Mr. T.

Appreciate that.

Cheers,

Dave

[cmia]

have a read of the other thread as well..

edit..

what happens fi you rev the car sat in netural .. at 1400 with out touching the clutch pedal?

can you feel the juddering comming from else where ?

or is it only when u touch the cluch pedal ?

look through the service history .. has the clutch ever been changed.. or even better..

take your reg number down to a toyota dealer and ... get a print out fo the service history of the car..

i wonder if the clutch has been replaced before and its clutch slack/drag casuing the problem..

[Simon G]

have a read of the other thread as well..

edit..

what happens fi you rev the car sat in netural .. at 1400 with out touching the clutch pedal?

can you feel the juddering comming from else where ?

or is it only when u touch the cluch pedal ?

look through the service history .. has the clutch ever been changed.. or even better..

take your reg number down to a toyota dealer and ... get a print out fo the service history of the car..

i wonder if the clutch has been replaced before and its clutch slack/drag casuing the problem..

Cheers cmia, I havent tried the reving in netrual yet but I just contacted the dealership who did all the services prior to my ownership and they confirmed no work was undertaken by them on the clutch, so I guess that rules out a poorly put back together clutch (if thats what you mean?).

Keep me posted on your outcome too Dave and I'll let you know if the carshop tell me anything when I put it in tomorrow.

Anyone else out there with any ideas or similar problems then please add to this thread or even better, let us know how you fixed it! :D

[Simon G]

I've just had the car back from the garage and not really great news.

The mechanic must have thought that I just had a squeaky clutch pedal as he said he fixed that but said he didnt feel anything wrong when he took it for a test drive. So I went straight to the car, turned the engine on, put my foot on the clutch and guess what, yes the pulsing vibration from the engine was still there.

So I took it straight to their customer services department to say that it still wasnt fixed, the customer services manager tried the car himself, said that he felt a very slight pulsating in the clutch but that it was normal for a car of this age?? (60k 4 years old) And they wernt prepared to do anymore about it as what he felt was just normal.

So the only solution they found was to add lubrication, to be fair, it doesnt feel quite as rough now, but its definitely still present. So it looks like its something that I'm just going to have to live with. But in conclusion, they seem to think that its safe and that its not a sign that the clutch is on its way out.

Dave, let me know if you get any further with this and I'll keep you posted if things change on my side.

[Simon G]

An update on my problem so far: Since owning the car for about a month now, not only do I have the vibration through the clutch pedal but now I also have a loud squeak and creaking noise coming whenever I press the clutch down and back up again. Taken it to a garage who say that the squeaking is actually coming from the gearbox, and the solution is to open the gearbox up, give it a clean and put it back together again. The carshop have agreed to pay for the labour for this, but the mechanic told me that seeing as the labour is already paid for, then I may as well put a new clutch in myself, this will cost £275. Aparently this is a 6.5 hour job, so I'm glad I'm not paying for the labour costs.

Anyway, I'll let you know if a new clutch actually solves the problem of the vibration. And I hope the cleaning of the gearbox will get rid of my squeak as its driving me crazy!!!

[cmia]

An update on my problem so far: Since owning the car for about a month now, not only do I have the vibration through the clutch pedal but now I also have a loud squeak and creaking noise coming whenever I press the clutch down and back up again. Taken it to a garage who say that the squeaking is actually coming from the gearbox, and the solution is to open the gearbox up, give it a clean and put it back together again. The carshop have agreed to pay for the labour for this, but the mechanic told me that seeing as the labour is already paid for, then I may as well put a new clutch in myself, this will cost £275. Aparently this is a 6.5 hour job, so I'm glad I'm not paying for the labour costs.

Anyway, I'll let you know if a new clutch actually solves the problem of the vibration. And I hope the cleaning of the gearbox will get rid of my squeak as its driving me crazy!!!

wait..

I dont see how the vibration and the cleaning of the gearbox will cure the squeak...

If your changing the clutch.. the DUAL MASS FLY WHEEL will be the most culprate of the vibration..

the squeek is possibly the realse bearing..

[cmia]

Do me a favour..

Take your REG down to toyota.. and ask them.. to check on the system to see if the car

maybe in the recall list for dual mass flywheel faluire

Which garage is this simon that your taking your car to..

I am 99% sure that the problem is with the flywheel ...

(all ofyou)

[Simon G]

Do me a favour..

Take your REG down to toyota.. and ask them.. to check on the system to see if the car

maybe in the recall list for dual mass flywheel faluire

Which garage is this simon that your taking your car to..

I am 99% sure that the problem is with the flywheel ...

(all ofyou)

Hi cmia, Well its a small private garage that is doing the gearbox cleanup. They say that the sqeaking noise is actually coming from there and not clutch itself. So you saying that you doubt the squeak/creak is coming from the gearbox? And you think that the vibration is actually caused by the dual mass flywheel? So how much would one of those cost? The fact that I can feel the vibration, would this suggest that the flywheel is on its way out?

[Simon G]

Do me a favour..

Take your REG down to toyota.. and ask them.. to check on the system to see if the car

maybe in the recall list for dual mass flywheel faluire

Which garage is this simon that your taking your car to..

I am 99% sure that the problem is with the flywheel ...

(all ofyou)

I contact Toyota Cardiff and they said that my car was not on a recall list for dual mass flywheel problems. Do you reckon that I should get one of these put in along with the new clutch?

[cmia]

Do me a favour..

Take your REG down to toyota.. and ask them.. to check on the system to see if the car

maybe in the recall list for dual mass flywheel faluire

Which garage is this simon that your taking your car to..

I am 99% sure that the problem is with the flywheel ...

(all ofyou)

Hi cmia, Well its a small private garage that is doing the gearbox cleanup. They say that the sqeaking noise is actually coming from there and not clutch itself. So you saying that you doubt the squeak/creak is coming from the gearbox? And you think that the vibration is actually caused by the dual mass flywheel? So how much would one of those cost? The fact that I can feel the vibration, would this suggest that the flywheel is on its way out?

Ok..

Squeaking noise from a gearbox, I doubt it very much,

Unless the gearbox's main shaft bearings are going, but this kind of noise will be apparent in every gear and not just when pressing the clutch down. in that case "cleaning the gearbox" isnt going to fix any thing

the 4d4 is a hydralic gearbox, which means Hydralics do all the work, No cables nothing. there are no "servicable parts inside" .. its simple chnage the oil... I have heard release bearings /thrust bearings making a really loud sequealing noise when they are on the last legs.

Things to try and report back

to rule out a fault gearbox.. turn the car off

1) push the clutch down.. did you hear any thing?

2) can you select all of the gears ? ie clutch down 1st, cluch up.. then .. clutch down neutral, then 2nd, etc

3) did the gearbox make any noises? Obviously you will hear clunk clunk.. when you will chnage the gears.

You also mention "clunky" gearbox - you cant cure it, ive had 3 avensis diesels all have same issues... Make sure you are in your power band.. Ie 1st gear 13mph, then chnage.. 2nd 25mph .. 3rd etc .. nice and slowly does it :D

Now on the squealing noise

1) Does the gearbox squeal when making any changes ?

2) Does the noise occure when you press the clutch in ?

3) Does the pitch of the noise chnage when you are standing still and press the clutch in?

4) is the noise always present ?

Would you class it as a WURRING noise ie metal to metal .. rather then squealing.

The DUAL MASS FLY wheel has always been a problem with these cars, 2003 models were effected however mr T should be able to look at the reg and tell you if the updated flywheel was installed.

Flywheel faluire occured near.. 100k.. but it all depened on how the car had been driven..

the flywheel noise is apparent when you lift up the bonnet.. you will hear tick tick tick.. maybe even knock knock .. depends how bad it is..

the flywheel is an expensive part..

do the baove and we can discuss it futher..

*could be worth phoneing a diffrent dealer ;) and giving your reg.. It wouldnt suprise me if.. certin branches would /are still trying to cover it up.

[Simon G]

Do me a favour..

Take your REG down to toyota.. and ask them.. to check on the system to see if the car

maybe in the recall list for dual mass flywheel faluire

Which garage is this simon that your taking your car to..

I am 99% sure that the problem is with the flywheel ...

(all ofyou)

Hi cmia, Well its a small private garage that is doing the gearbox cleanup. They say that the sqeaking noise is actually coming from there and not clutch itself. So you saying that you doubt the squeak/creak is coming from the gearbox? And you think that the vibration is actually caused by the dual mass flywheel? So how much would one of those cost? The fact that I can feel the vibration, would this suggest that the flywheel is on its way out?

Ok..

Squeaking noise from a gearbox, I doubt it very much,

Unless the gearbox's main shaft bearings are going, but this kind of noise will be apparent in every gear and not just when pressing the clutch down. in that case "cleaning the gearbox" isnt going to fix any thing

the 4d4 is a hydralic gearbox, which means Hydralics do all the work, No cables nothing. there are no "servicable parts inside" .. its simple chnage the oil... I have heard release bearings /thrust bearings making a really loud sequealing noise when they are on the last legs.

Things to try and report back

to rule out a fault gearbox.. turn the car off

1) push the clutch down.. did you hear any thing?

2) can you select all of the gears ? ie clutch down 1st, cluch up.. then .. clutch down neutral, then 2nd, etc

3) did the gearbox make any noises? Obviously you will hear clunk clunk.. when you will chnage the gears.

You also mention "clunky" gearbox - you cant cure it, ive had 3 avensis diesels all have same issues... Make sure you are in your power band.. Ie 1st gear 13mph, then chnage.. 2nd 25mph .. 3rd etc .. nice and slowly does it :D

Now on the squealing noise

1) Does the gearbox squeal when making any changes ?

2) Does the noise occure when you press the clutch in ?

3) Does the pitch of the noise chnage when you are standing still and press the clutch in?

4) is the noise always present ?

Would you class it as a WURRING noise ie metal to metal .. rather then squealing.

The DUAL MASS FLY wheel has always been a problem with these cars, 2003 models were effected however mr T should be able to look at the reg and tell you if the updated flywheel was installed.

Flywheel faluire occured near.. 100k.. but it all depened on how the car had been driven..

the flywheel noise is apparent when you lift up the bonnet.. you will hear tick tick tick.. maybe even knock knock .. depends how bad it is..

the flywheel is an expensive part..

do the baove and we can discuss it futher..

*could be worth phoneing a diffrent dealer ;) and giving your reg.. It wouldnt suprise me if.. certin branches would /are still trying to cover it up.

The carshop have said that they will pay for labour if I pay the parts as they say its not a mechanical failure, thats why I ask should I just put in a new fly wheel at the same time. The new clutch is going to cost £260 for the part, so how much do you reckon the flywheel part would be? I found a price online at around £270, would that be about right? If that was the case, the total cost to me would be just over £500.

From your description, the vibration through the pedal does seem to be the flywheel, will this get worse? Could it eventually fail? What is the actual job of the flywheel - is it to dampen the vibration felt?

As the for creaking/squeaking noise from the clutch, it happens when I press the clutch pedal when the car is on or off, no difference. It sounds similar to a creaking or squeaking door.

I can select all gears, reverse sometimes is a little tricky, but no abnormal noises other than the normal clunking gearbox noise. Personally, it sounds like the clutch so I couldnt understand why the mechanic was pointing the problem at the gearbox.

The noise to me comes from the clutch pedal, not the gearbox, im only going on what the mechanic told me by saying the gearbox. The creaking noise is always there when changing gear, but gets quieter now and again, but is generally always noticeable.

Sometimes when I hold the clutch at or near biting point, thats when it feels more like a wurring/metal to metal sound as you describe.

From what I gather this to me seems to be two separate problems, 1. the vibration felt is from the faulty flywheel and 2. the creaking is from a worn clutch component. Would I be correct in assuming this? If its costs me just over £500 as im only paying parts, is it worth my just changing both clutch and flywheel now?

[cmia]

The carshop have said that they will pay for labour if I pay the parts as they say its not a mechanical failure, thats why I ask should I just put in a new fly wheel at the same time. The new clutch is going to cost £260 for the part, so how much do you reckon the flywheel part would be? I found a price online at around £270, would that be about right? If that was the case, the total cost to me would be just over £500.

From your description, the vibration through the pedal does seem to be the flywheel, will this get worse? Could it eventually fail? What is the actual job of the flywheel - is it to dampen the vibration felt?

The flywheel basically bolted onto the engine,

It spins around at the rpm of the engine...

The flywheel is the bit where.. the clutch mates / Touches it for grip..

The dual mass flywheel has a tourqe convertor installed inside. this torque convertor can fail sometimes and what you have is a snapped flywheel. = your car is not going anywhere.

Now one of the possbilites could be that the flywheel and clutch are waraped ... = exsessive bashing, neglected car.

As the for creaking/squeaking noise from the clutch, it happens when I press the clutch pedal when the car is on or off, no difference. It sounds similar to a creaking or squeaking door.

with that symptom.. Iam guessing squeeking release bearing.. or sometimes the joint at the top of the clutch pedal (inside the car) may need to be greased.

I can select all gears, reverse sometimes is a little tricky, but no abnormal noises other than the normal clunking gearbox noise. Personally, it sounds like the clutch so I couldnt understand why the mechanic was pointing the problem at the gearbox.

Your gearbox is fine .. (they pulling your leg).

The noise to me comes from the clutch pedal, not the gearbox, im only going on what the mechanic told me by saying the gearbox. The creaking noise is always there when changing gear, but gets quieter now and again, but is generally always noticeable.

Iam sure you have some grease.. or wd40 (copper grease is better). get on your knees :D look at the clutch pedal.. and notice at the top you have a spring.. and a hydralic rod. Grease the spring at the top and its joint... Try to press the pedal in a few times, then regrease.

Sometimes when I hold the clutch at or near biting point, thats when it feels more like a wurring/metal to metal sound as you describe.

From what I gather this to me seems to be two separate problems, 1. the vibration felt is from the faulty flywheel and 2. the creaking is from a worn clutch component. Would I be correct in assuming this? If its costs me just over £500 as im only paying parts, is it worth my just changing both clutch and flywheel now?

I personally think, you have a problem with both components, Mainly due to the way the car may have been abused before ... Ie I think you may have a slightly warped clutch /flywheel which does not mate with each other correctly.

Now As i have said before ... , if the flywheel was on its last legs, you would hear a ticking or knocking noise on idle..

If you are looking at replacing... the flywheel and clutch..

you might as well do the release bearing and pressure plate..

How many miles has the car done ?

[Simon G]

The carshop have said that they will pay for labour if I pay the parts as they say its not a mechanical failure, thats why I ask should I just put in a new fly wheel at the same time. The new clutch is going to cost £260 for the part, so how much do you reckon the flywheel part would be? I found a price online at around £270, would that be about right? If that was the case, the total cost to me would be just over £500.

From your description, the vibration through the pedal does seem to be the flywheel, will this get worse? Could it eventually fail? What is the actual job of the flywheel - is it to dampen the vibration felt?

The flywheel basically bolted onto the engine,

It spins around at the rpm of the engine...

The flywheel is the bit where.. the clutch mates / Touches it for grip..

The dual mass flywheel has a tourqe convertor installed inside. this torque convertor can fail sometimes and what you have is a snapped flywheel. = your car is not going anywhere.

Now one of the possbilites could be that the flywheel and clutch are waraped ... = exsessive bashing, neglected car.

As the for creaking/squeaking noise from the clutch, it happens when I press the clutch pedal when the car is on or off, no difference. It sounds similar to a creaking or squeaking door.

with that symptom.. Iam guessing squeeking release bearing.. or sometimes the joint at the top of the clutch pedal (inside the car) may need to be greased.

I can select all gears, reverse sometimes is a little tricky, but no abnormal noises other than the normal clunking gearbox noise. Personally, it sounds like the clutch so I couldnt understand why the mechanic was pointing the problem at the gearbox.

Your gearbox is fine .. (they pulling your leg).

The noise to me comes from the clutch pedal, not the gearbox, im only going on what the mechanic told me by saying the gearbox. The creaking noise is always there when changing gear, but gets quieter now and again, but is generally always noticeable.

Iam sure you have some grease.. or wd40 (copper grease is better). get on your knees :D look at the clutch pedal.. and notice at the top you have a spring.. and a hydralic rod. Grease the spring at the top and its joint... Try to press the pedal in a few times, then regrease.

Sometimes when I hold the clutch at or near biting point, thats when it feels more like a wurring/metal to metal sound as you describe.

From what I gather this to me seems to be two separate problems, 1. the vibration felt is from the faulty flywheel and 2. the creaking is from a worn clutch component. Would I be correct in assuming this? If its costs me just over £500 as im only paying parts, is it worth my just changing both clutch and flywheel now?

I personally think, you have a problem with both components, Mainly due to the way the car may have been abused before ... Ie I think you may have a slightly warped clutch /flywheel which does not mate with each other correctly.

Now As i have said before ... , if the flywheel was on its last legs, you would hear a ticking or knocking noise on idle..

If you are looking at replacing... the flywheel and clutch..

you might as well do the release bearing and pressure plate..

How many miles has the car done ?

The car has done 61500 miles. Thanks for all your advice on this, I passed on what you said to the mechanic about the dual mass flywheel and they said they would check it out when they opened it all up. Its due in the garage on wednesday so I suppose I just have to hope that they know what their doing. I am skeptical about the gearbox being a problem too, but as I'm not paying anything towards that then I'm not too bothered.

I've checked for this ticking/knocking noise on idle and while their may be a slight ticking noise I'm not 100% sure if thats just the normal noise from the engine. This is my first diesel car so I'm not sure if what I'm hearing is normal. Would you say its a very distinctive, "there is a problem here" type of noise? Or could it be slight in that it could be confused with the normal running sound?

Also, one other question. Do they need to remove the engine to replace the clutch? Its just that I need to change the timing belt and was wondering if it would be cheaper for me getting the work done the same time?

Cheers again for your continued help.

[cmia]

The car has done 61500 miles. Thanks for all your advice on this, I passed on what you said to the mechanic about the dual mass flywheel and they said they would check it out when they opened it all up. Its due in the garage on wednesday so I suppose I just have to hope that they know what their doing. I am skeptical about the gearbox being a problem too, but as I'm not paying anything towards that then I'm not too bothered.

I've checked for this ticking/knocking noise on idle and while their may be a slight ticking noise I'm not 100% sure if thats just the normal noise from the engine. This is my first diesel car so I'm not sure if what I'm hearing is normal. Would you say its a very distinctive, "there is a problem here" type of noise? Or could it be slight in that it could be confused with the normal running sound?

Also, one other question. Do they need to remove the engine to replace the clutch? Its just that I need to change the timing belt and was wondering if it would be cheaper for me getting the work done the same time?

Cheers again for your continued help.

If the flywheel is going.. it will sound like an extra injector that is placed out of tune with the engine. (begining symptoms)

the ticking will increase when you press the foot down on the gas, ofcourse the higher the revs the quicker the ticking..

about 2k of revs the noise should disapear.

Will be easier to tell on a cold morning.

The d4d engine should be quiet as a whispher.. especially at that mileage.

Now earlier in one of your posts, we talked about the wurring noise, (metal to metal) that would indicate that .. the flywheel is the problem, I did a very long post and topic about flywheel faliures in the avensis.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ind...v=i&t=43656

noticed yesterday a very unusual sound when pulling away in 1st and 2nd as well as reverse. It appears to come from the engine bay and is a sort of rattling/gringing sound

More extreme .. of the flywheel faluire..

This was another ... post in the rav forums..

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.p...=79&t=72085

Could be worth starting the engine of another diesel avensis.. and listing for the diffrence.

the engine will not need to come out for the timing belt or clutch..

according to some posts and information... warranty has been extended to 5 years or 100k

I would pester the local toyota dealers!

.. PS a cheaper kit is avalible .. from tyota

including

Pressure plate

Clutch

Release bearing

flywheel.

and all the new bolts required for it.

(best thing about it is.. if you get them to fit it.. its warrantied!) :D

[Simon G]

I would get this done by Totota as you suggest, but as I've only just bought it its still under a 3 month warranty from the carshop, so they've agree to pay for the labour but not parts. However, when they open the clutch up I'm going to ask the mechanics to look for a warped flywheel, and if it is then I'm going to try to get the carshop to pay for the new flywheel as that would constitute mechanical failure I would think.

As an update, I've tried to notice any ticking noises as you suggested. There is something slight there when the car is idle but nothing very noticeable, but as I accelarate I certainly can hear a ticking/rattling then, but only if I have the window open, with it closed you cant hear it, thats why I've not noticed that until now.

You mention to also change the pressure plate and release bearing at the same time, I take it these parts arnt included with a new clutch installation? Are these part expensive do you know? Something I noticed yesterday too, was that when I press the clutch down when it comes back up, just at the top it takes just a little while longer to fully return to its normal position, as if its not quite a fluid movement, could this be the release bearing?

Thanks

[cmia]

I would get this done by Totota as you suggest, but as I've only just bought it its still under a 3 month warranty from the carshop, so they've agree to pay for the labour but not parts. However, when they open the clutch up I'm going to ask the mechanics to look for a warped flywheel, and if it is then I'm going to try to get the carshop to pay for the new flywheel as that would constitute mechanical failure I would think.

- I would be indicated to tell the carshop to replace all the parts underwarranty. The problem is that they wont be able to tell if the flywheel is on its way out, or if it is warped, (unless the know of a machine shop).

As an update, I've tried to notice any ticking noises as you suggested. There is something slight there when the car is idle but nothing very noticeable, but as I accelarate I certainly can hear a ticking/rattling then, but only if I have the window open, with it closed you cant hear it, thats why I've not noticed that until now.

I would say if the rattling and ticking is present.. their is a fair chance you have a problem with the flywheel..

Best way to find out is..

One cold moring.. drive up a hill, slow rpm's put your foot down.. resonably hard (plant it down) and listen..

Then let the car warm up, and do the same.. Listen and take note if the tone of the noise is diffrent, ie from cold.

You mention to also change the pressure plate and release bearing at the same time, I take it these parts arnt included with a new clutch installation?

Depends on the KIT some include it, others dont, I hope your getting a TOYOTA one, simply becuase other cheaper kits are known to "slip" whenunder full load.

Are these part expensive do you know?

For the flywheel, pressure plate, release bearing.. and clutch plate, be perpared to spend 670>800£ ish, depnding on

1) where you get the parts

2) if they are genuine toyota parts

3) if MR T dealers is in a good mood.

Something I noticed yesterday too, was that when I press the clutch down when it comes back up, just at the top it takes just a little while longer to fully return to its normal position, as if its not quite a fluid movement, could this be the release bearing

That could be eighter the pressure plate or release bearing.. but the likley culprit would be the pressure plate,

If you want my personal Opinion...

I honestly think you are been taken for a ride by incompetent garage staff, which has sold you a car with a mechanical problem.

The warranty should cover every thing.. not just the labour, They cant sell you a bad car and then decide.. " well pay for the labour, if you pay for the parts".. that is self is an admision their is a fault somewhere.

If the garage is unable to.. Diagnoise where a squeak is comming from, i doubt very much they will be able to take apart an

gearbox and "clean" it or manage to change the flywheel/clutch.

Their are no servicable parts within the gearbox... well nothing they can clean.

I would stay away from them.

On a side note..

I would seriously recommend that, you pop down to your local Toyota dealer, explain the problem to them. Tell them you suspect a bad flywheel and get one of the garage staff to have a listen.

Its a very common problem, they will be able to tell.

Thanks

Any time.

[Simon G]

To update on my problem with this. The garage checked out the flywheel but said it was ok, so they went ahead and only replaced the clutch. I was dreading getting the car back to put my foot down on the pedal and still feel the vibration of the engine, but to my surprise it was fine. Not only has the vibration and any juddering gone, but the pedal is so much lighter. I read somewhere else on this forum about people complaining of a heavy clutch on the avensis and being told this was normal, well I can assure you now that with my new clutch its as light as any other car I've driven and thats including my other car a 2000 1.2 fiat punto.

However, the pedal still squeaked when I pressed it. But this was fixed simply by applying some WD40 to the components just above the pedal. So it turned out I had a number of squeaks, one was probably due to the clutch being on its way out and the other was simply a part needed a little lubrication.

Thanks cmia for your continued help and patience on my problem here.

[cmia]

Good to hear you got it sloved!

Happy driving :D

[tomekpel]

To update on my problem with this. The garage checked out the flywheel but said it was ok, so they went ahead and only replaced the clutch. I was dreading getting the car back to put my foot down on the pedal and still feel the vibration of the engine, but to my surprise it was fine. Not only has the vibration and any juddering gone, but the pedal is so much lighter. I read somewhere else on this forum about people complaining of a heavy clutch on the avensis and being told this was normal, well I can assure you now that with my new clutch its as light as any other car I've driven and thats including my other car a 2000 1.2 fiat punto.

However, the pedal still squeaked when I pressed it. But this was fixed simply by applying some WD40 to the components just above the pedal. So it turned out I had a number of squeaks, one was probably due to the clutch being on its way out and the other was simply a part needed a little lubrication.

Thanks cmia for your continued help and patience on my problem here.

Hi, I would not like to spoil the good mood but... I had similar problem on previous avensis. I had the clutch replaced and it was ok for a while. But after couple of months the ticking and knocking started to appear. Eventually I had to replace the flywheel. What I was told is that the new, 'strong' clutch may have caused the already weak flywheel go.

The thing is I bought used (new shape) avensis just few months ago and I am already getting kind of clutch vibration you have had. Could you let us know if your problem developed the way I described or was it solved once and for all, please? I would like to know what I need to brace myself for.

Thanks

Tom