Auris/yaris Mmt Query

[SUPERSKIB]

I have read all the posts to date on the MMT box and its problems

At Easter this year (07) I had a 48hr test drive in an Auris D4D MMT. I thought it was a real pig. As an IAM driver with 40 years experience at the wheel, in all sorts of vehicles from tractors to fine cars, I thought I would be able to get a decent drive out of the MMT box. I have driven several versions of the DSG box on VW/Seat/Skoda and all were so smooth as to be almost imperceptible. The Corolla Auto (torque converter) I drove in Australia was also pretty good. I tried all sorts with the Auris MMT – gentle, boy racer and just plain normal – it was simply JERKY!

At times it was very, very disconcerting, like when I was halfway past a long artic on a single carriageway A road, and when the gear change occurred it was like the engine had stalled, or the brakes had been applied quite firmly, just like somebody had grabbed my collar when running. Ditto pulling out of a side road onto a busy main road; when there was a safe gap I accelerated firmly to enter the carriageway and as soon as I was in the main stream again I thought it had stalled. Using the ES mode simply meant the heart stopper occurred at a different speed.

I was so disappointed that even though I was intent on an auto I settled for an Auris D4D 2.0 manual. If Toyota are really intent on using the electronic clutch methodology they should licence the twin clutch variant from Borg Warner (like VW's DSG). It is apparent that the current version has serious design flaws (I have just read through the Verso posts which are horrendous).

I am posting this because my wife has a hankering for a Yaris with MMT; does anyone have experience with this combination? Thanks for any advice.

[OldSkoO1]

Sorry i can add nothing to your thread to help but only to say i'm surprised it was that bad.

I drove an RAV4 Petrol auto and it was actually a very nice smooth drive apart from the lack of power when making progress. It was a big difference comparing to the T180. The auto box wasn't miles apart from my dads auto merc so i am suprised this MMT is so bad.

I would have thought toyota would have put so much into R&D on auto boxes that they would have come up with something special. Clearly not.

That said, i know that 2.0 diesel manual you have is a very good engine.

[bjw]

I drove the Volkswagen's DSG automatic gearbox and it was excellent .

I think the problems with the MMT are mainly on the larger cars ( Verso ) but I think there are some reports of problems with the Auris and Yaris but not as many yet ??.

I do think your comments about a design flaw may be true and I also do wonder if enough R+D was done before subjecting the this gearbox to the car buying public but as I have said before it is unlike Toyota to make this mistake.

I myself would not touch this gearbox with a barge pole in its present form I do not know what Toyota has got planned in the way of gearbox technology but it seems incredible with more and more diesels being sold that you cannot buy a larger engine Toyota diesel with a auto box but I believe Honda are the same

[Parts-King]

I can't understand how you found the Auris MMT to be a pig, I have had two and they have been outstanding, I am not an AIM member but do have 30 years driving/motorcycling experience.

IMHO, the Auris MMT is far better than the Yaris, much smoother and the paddle change is fantastic.

Please remember MMT is NOT an automatic, and cannot be compared to one, it's a manual gearbox clutch with electronic actuator. I think the reason they are being used is two fold, A: They are cheaper than an auto box, and B: The ongoing saga to reduce emissions and improve economy, both of which can be done with MMT. Also MMt seems to be a European thing, they use autoboxes everywhere else, maybe that will change over time, who knows!

Kingo

[konakid]

I have read all the posts to date on the MMT box and its problems

At Easter this year (07) I had a 48hr test drive in an Auris D4D MMT. I thought it was a real pig. As an IAM driver with 40 years experience at the wheel, in all sorts of vehicles from tractors to fine cars, I thought I would be able to get a decent drive out of the MMT box. I have driven several versions of the DSG box on VW/Seat/Skoda and all were so smooth as to be almost imperceptible. The Corolla Auto (torque converter) I drove in Australia was also pretty good. I tried all sorts with the Auris MMT – gentle, boy racer and just plain normal – it was simply JERKY!

At times it was very, very disconcerting, like when I was halfway past a long artic on a single carriageway A road, and when the gear change occurred it was like the engine had stalled, or the brakes had been applied quite firmly, just like somebody had grabbed my collar when running. Ditto pulling out of a side road onto a busy main road; when there was a safe gap I accelerated firmly to enter the carriageway and as soon as I was in the main stream again I thought it had stalled. Using the ES mode simply meant the heart stopper occurred at a different speed.

I was so disappointed that even though I was intent on an auto I settled for an Auris D4D 2.0 manual. If Toyota are really intent on using the electronic clutch methodology they should licence the twin clutch variant from Borg Warner (like VW's DSG). It is apparent that the current version has serious design flaws (I have just read through the Verso posts which are horrendous).

I am posting this because my wife has a hankering for a Yaris with MMT; does anyone have experience with this combination? Thanks for any advice.

40 years experience is good, but the MMt is like a re-education, which for some people they dont want to do so give up on a car like this. I have have driven auto's ever since i saw the sence (12 years ) but got annoyed with the fuel bills..The reason Auto's are generally heavy on fuel and are not popular is that people drive them foot to the floor "cuz they can !! " but with an mmt you have to re-think your driving.. Im a month in as an MMt owner and its like a new discovery, now I test drove both the 1.6 and 1.4D and settle on the 1.4 as it felt like a heavier car and enjoyed the torque (plus with my new found mmt skils i can beat people at lights and on round abouts due to the slick hassle free change im getting). I am getting fuel economy of 43.2 mpg Urban, Extra urban and Rural which puts a big (if a little jerky when i forget im in am MMT) smile on my fuel efficient face..

If you wife is prepared to ditch 40 years of experience and learn how to drive a modern idea like MMt then she will love it, good luck

[bjw]

I have read all the posts to date on the MMT box and its problems

At Easter this year (07) I had a 48hr test drive in an Auris D4D MMT. I thought it was a real pig. As an IAM driver with 40 years experience at the wheel, in all sorts of vehicles from tractors to fine cars, I thought I would be able to get a decent drive out of the MMT box. I have driven several versions of the DSG box on VW/Seat/Skoda and all were so smooth as to be almost imperceptible. The Corolla Auto (torque converter) I drove in Australia was also pretty good. I tried all sorts with the Auris MMT – gentle, boy racer and just plain normal – it was simply JERKY!

At times it was very, very disconcerting, like when I was halfway past a long artic on a single carriageway A road, and when the gear change occurred it was like the engine had stalled, or the brakes had been applied quite firmly, just like somebody had grabbed my collar when running. Ditto pulling out of a side road onto a busy main road; when there was a safe gap I accelerated firmly to enter the carriageway and as soon as I was in the main stream again I thought it had stalled. Using the ES mode simply meant the heart stopper occurred at a different speed.

I was so disappointed that even though I was intent on an auto I settled for an Auris D4D 2.0 manual. If Toyota are really intent on using the electronic clutch methodology they should licence the twin clutch variant from Borg Warner (like VW's DSG). It is apparent that the current version has serious design flaws (I have just read through the Verso posts which are horrendous).

I am posting this because my wife has a hankering for a Yaris with MMT; does anyone have experience with this combination? Thanks for any advice.

40 years experience is good, but the MMt is like a re-education, which for some people they dont want to do so give up on a car like this. I have have driven auto's ever since i saw the sence (12 years ) but got annoyed with the fuel bills..The reason Auto's are generally heavy on fuel and are not popular is that people drive them foot to the floor "cuz they can !! " but with an mmt you have to re-think your driving.. Im a month in as an MMt owner and its like a new discovery, now I test drove both the 1.6 and 1.4D and settle on the 1.4 as it felt like a heavier car and enjoyed the torque (plus with my new found mmt skils i can beat people at lights and on round abouts due to the slick hassle free change im getting). I am getting fuel economy of 43.2 mpg Urban, Extra urban and Rural which puts a big (if a little jerky when i forget im in am MMT) smile on my fuel efficient face..

If you wife is prepared to ditch 40 years of experience and learn how to drive a modern idea like MMt then she will love it, good luck

I just wonder if the owners of Honda ,Mazda,Vauxhall or Ford have had to be re-educated on how to drive there automatic cars I do not think so ?? The drivers outside Europe will not have to be re-educated as I believe this auto box is not offered to them ;) .

While there has been some posts regarding the driving experience of the car the majority of comments have been that the car is allegedly unreliable( such as going into n mode in the 3rd lane of a motorway and getting stuck in this n mode ).You can have any amount of driving experience it will not help you in these situations.

Hopefully the MMt gearbox in time will have there problems ironed out and will prove to be an excellent alternative to a standard automatic

.

[don21]

I think in time Toyota will ditch this box.Salesman intimated as much to me when we bought our manual D4D Auris swapping our MMT rolla.Of course not all salespersons are always entirely honest but it seems there is no middle ground with the mmt.People either love or hate it.

Heard an awful lot of good reviews of the wv box and am surprised toyota are so far behind.

[dlwebb]

I couldn't agree more. All of the Toyota staff that I have spoken to have said that they dislike the MMT and some have implied that it will be replaced. I have just traded in my 5 month old Auris MMT for a Auris manual. It has cost me nearly £4,000 but was worth it for my peace of mind.

[SUPERSKIB]

I couldn't agree more. All of the Toyota staff that I have spoken to have said that they dislike the MMT and some have implied that it will be replaced. I have just traded in my 5 month old Auris MMT for a Auris manual. It has cost me nearly £4,000 but was worth it for my peace of mind.

This is really disconcerting as I am considering trading in my 9 months old D4D Auris manual for a Yaris D4D MMT in the new year. This is largely to satisfy my wife's wish to have an automatic as her left wrist has been weak after breaking it earlier in the year.

I am really in a quandary now!

[OldSkoO1]

//edited- text removed

[konakid]

I have read all the posts to date on the MMT box and its problems

At Easter this year (07) I had a 48hr test drive in an Auris D4D MMT. I thought it was a real pig. As an IAM driver with 40 years experience at the wheel, in all sorts of vehicles from tractors to fine cars, I thought I would be able to get a decent drive out of the MMT box. I have driven several versions of the DSG box on VW/Seat/Skoda and all were so smooth as to be almost imperceptible. The Corolla Auto (torque converter) I drove in Australia was also pretty good. I tried all sorts with the Auris MMT – gentle, boy racer and just plain normal – it was simply JERKY!

At times it was very, very disconcerting, like when I was halfway past a long artic on a single carriageway A road, and when the gear change occurred it was like the engine had stalled, or the brakes had been applied quite firmly, just like somebody had grabbed my collar when running. Ditto pulling out of a side road onto a busy main road; when there was a safe gap I accelerated firmly to enter the carriageway and as soon as I was in the main stream again I thought it had stalled. Using the ES mode simply meant the heart stopper occurred at a different speed.

I was so disappointed that even though I was intent on an auto I settled for an Auris D4D 2.0 manual. If Toyota are really intent on using the electronic clutch methodology they should licence the twin clutch variant from Borg Warner (like VW's DSG). It is apparent that the current version has serious design flaws (I have just read through the Verso posts which are horrendous).

I am posting this because my wife has a hankering for a Yaris with MMT; does anyone have experience with this combination? Thanks for any advice.

40 years experience is good, but the MMt is like a re-education, which for some people they dont want to do so give up on a car like this. I have have driven auto's ever since i saw the sence (12 years ) but got annoyed with the fuel bills..The reason Auto's are generally heavy on fuel and are not popular is that people drive them foot to the floor "cuz they can !! " but with an mmt you have to re-think your driving.. Im a month in as an MMt owner and its like a new discovery, now I test drove both the 1.6 and 1.4D and settle on the 1.4 as it felt like a heavier car and enjoyed the torque (plus with my new found mmt skils i can beat people at lights and on round abouts due to the slick hassle free change im getting). I am getting fuel economy of 43.2 mpg Urban, Extra urban and Rural which puts a big (if a little jerky when i forget im in am MMT) smile on my fuel efficient face..

If you wife is prepared to ditch 40 years of experience and learn how to drive a modern idea like MMt then she will love it, good luck

I just wonder if the owners of Honda ,Mazda,Vauxhall or Ford have had to be re-educated on how to drive there automatic cars I do not think so ?? The drivers outside Europe will not have to be re-educated as I believe this auto box is not offered to them ;) .

While there has been some posts regarding the driving experience of the car the majority of comments have been that the car is allegedly unreliable( such as going into n mode in the 3rd lane of a motorway and getting stuck in this n mode ).You can have any amount of driving experience it will not help you in these situations.

Hopefully the MMt gearbox in time will have there problems ironed out and will prove to be an excellent alternative to a standard automatic

.

BUT IT IS NOT AN AUTO !!!!! I test dove the Civic and while yes the interior was amazing the cost of the Ishift was a big premium as was the DSG.. second hand 2 year old DSG or ISHIFT = £14K - £17... 3 month old Auris £12K !!!! and the DSG i am told has been a real problem for VW for the first two years as they had a lot of re-builds.. The civic was exactly the same to drive as my Auris (honda dont sell many of them either) so i chose to be kind to my pocket and wallet and bank manager and went for the Auris... the real problem with the auris is that is too Cheap... as for ditching the box, well i doubt that as its cheap to add onto the manual (yes i said manual) gearbox and in Asia they love it !!!

[Phil0600]

Despite my many earlier (& serious) criticisms of the multi-mode variant, with an open mind, perserverance & common sence (regarding the price of possible alternatives) it is possible to grow to really like & value this car!

Phil

[moonstone mart]

I also didnt like driving an MMT when they were first released. But after driving many i have come to find its not that bad at all. As people have said above and also what alot of people dont understand is that MMT is not an AUTO box. if im driving an MMT and want to overtake i usually knock it into 'M' mode and shift the gears i need at the time (this way it will not change up/down halfway through an overtake) then simple knock it back into 'E' mode. I also find that when shifting through the gears its smoother to come off the accelerator and back on when its engaged.

Did take some getting used to and obviously it still has some probs on the Verso burning clutches and locking into N.

But again MMT IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC 'BOX!

Mart.

[auris2008]

I also didnt like driving an MMT when they were first released. But after driving many i have come to find its not that bad at all. As people have said above and also what alot of people dont understand is that MMT is not an AUTO box. if im driving an MMT and want to overtake i usually knock it into 'M' mode and shift the gears i need at the time (this way it will not change up/down halfway through an overtake) then simple knock it back into 'E' mode. I also find that when shifting through the gears its smoother to come off the accelerator and back on when its engaged.

Did take some getting used to and obviously it still has some probs on the Verso burning clutches and locking into N.

But again MMT IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC 'BOX!

Mart.

hi Mart.

YOU ARE RIGHT - MMT IS A MANUAL GEAR WITH A COMPUTER-CONTROL-CLUTCH

I drive 99% in Manuel-Mode.

It is the best mode , and more , because you can also use the Padels in the wheel, like a sporty car.

1. Did you have any problem with the "going down to 1st gear" when you slow down below 20 KM ?

see the post before:

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=73878

2. Did you ever try my tip about starting in the 2st gear " the snow mode" ?

see there:

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74076

please reply

[SUPERSKIB]

I UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMENT THAT IT IS NOT AN AUTO BUT YOU ARE WRONG

So why put an auto facility in the box - because that is what E drive is. It is an automatic box in E. The word automatic means just that . The OED defines it as "working by itself without direct human control, self regulating"

IT IS A MULTI MODE IE manual and auto. It is just another type of auto - electronic cluthch as opposed to an oil bath torque converter. When it is in E drive it changes gear automatically – that's what autos do !!!!!!!!!

I also didnt like driving an MMT when they were first released. But after driving many i have come to find its not that bad at all. As people have said above and also what alot of people dont understand is that MMT is not an AUTO box. if im driving an MMT and want to overtake i usually knock it into 'M' mode and shift the gears i need at the time (this way it will not change up/down halfway through an overtake) then simple knock it back into 'E' mode. I also find that when shifting through the gears its smoother to come off the accelerator and back on when its engaged.

Did take some getting used to and obviously it still has some probs on the Verso burning clutches and locking into N.

But again MMT IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC 'BOX!

Mart.

hi Mart.

YOU ARE RIGHT - MMT IS A MANUAL GEAR WITH A COMPUTER-CONTROL-CLUTCH

I drive 99% in Manuel-Mode.

It is the best mode , and more , because you can also use the Padels in the wheel, like a sporty car.

1. Did you have any problem with the "going down to 1st gear" when you slow down below 20 KM ?

see the post before:

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=73878

2. Did you ever try my tip about starting in the 2st gear " the snow mode" ?

see there:

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74076

please reply

[Parts-King]

IT IS A MULTI MODE IE manual and auto. It is just another type of auto - electronic cluthch as opposed to an oil bath torque converter. When it is in E drive it changes gear automatically – that's what autos do !!!!!!!!!

That still does'nt make it an automatic, it's more another type of manual, as that is how it works, the clue is in the title MMT multi mode as you rightly pointed out, in my world, I would describe it as a semi automatic personally. Whatever you call it, it will never function like an Auto and there is no point in making a fuss about that, it's fantastic in the Auris, there would be no point in putting a fully auto box in one, the MMT is just as smooth with better fuel economy, that's a result for me! :D:

Kingo

[SUPERSKIB]

I realise you are a Toyota person and as such trying to put a positive gloss on any comments. It may come as a surprise to you that as Jesus cannot rewrite history, neither can Toyota rewrite the Oxford English Dictionary. You can call it what you like MMT, semi-auto or even electronic manual BUT; it has 2 positions in one the driver manipulates the sequential gearbox by moving the lever forward or back whilst the electronics operate the clutch THAT is a SEMI auto if you like (the driver does a bit/the computer does a bit.

HOWEVER when the lever is moved to 'Easy Drive' (just like you do in a torque converter auto) then the computer takes over and makes all the gear changes. Whether you like it or not that is AUTOMATIC. YOU MAY BE IN DENIAL ABOUT IT BUT AUTOMATIC IT IS.

IT IS A MULTI MODE IE manual and auto. It is just another type of auto - electronic cluthch as opposed to an oil bath torque converter. When it is in E drive it changes gear automatically – that's what autos do !!!!!!!!!

That still does'nt make it an automatic, it's more another type of manual, as that is how it works, the clue is in the title MMT multi mode as you rightly pointed out, in my world, I would describe it as a semi automatic personally. Whatever you call it, it will never function like an Auto and there is no point in making a fuss about that, it's fantastic in the Auris, there would be no point in putting a fully auto box in one, the MMT is just as smooth with better fuel economy, that's a result for me! :D:

Kingo

[konakid]

I realise you are a Toyota person and as such trying to put a positive gloss on any comments. It may come as a surprise to you that as Jesus cannot rewrite history, neither can Toyota rewrite the Oxford English Dictionary. You can call it what you like MMT, semi-auto or even electronic manual BUT; it has 2 positions in one the driver manipulates the sequential gearbox by moving the lever forward or back whilst the electronics operate the clutch THAT is a SEMI auto if you like (the driver does a bit/the computer does a bit.

I hope your not offend by us defending a car we have now all driven for more than 24hours and gone past the initial frustration to find a joy but please could i point you towards this website.. forget the Oxford Dictionary as there are probably more bikes there than cars.. Its a manual, with a clutch, with a computer !!! You can even hear it change when not inside the car which made my mate chuckle due to the slight delay!!!

http://www.carbibles.com/transmission_bible.html

interesting browse on the whole gearbox idea... as mentioned before my previous car was the 1.8 Avensis "SEMI auto" which was classed as a sequential and my big issue was alarming amount of Tesco's club card points i was earning at the petrol station rather than the food area

THERE ARE SMOOTHER AUTOs/ Semi's/Seqentials, just find me a real green one that gives me 40+ mpg in the lazy boy E mode im quite liking as well now i take my foot of the peddle more... lol

[Parts-King]

HOWEVER when the lever is moved to 'Easy Drive' (just like you do in a torque converter auto) then the computer takes over and makes all the gear changes. Whether you like it or not that is AUTOMATIC. YOU MAY BE IN DENIAL ABOUT IT BUT AUTOMATIC IT IS.

No need to shout, get yer caps lock off, I can read suprisingly well in lower case

In denial, Hmmmm could be in denial about a lot of things but believe me, MMT is not one of them, I'm not trying to defend or explain how MMT works, it has been done to death, I just smile to myself at your automatic mode and how wound up your getting, maybe you should devout a little more time to driving an MMT, you would then feel the benefits of driving a manual car with automatic type features, and you would also feel the difference in your pocket with the suprisingly less fuel you would use over a full automatic. You just had a bad experience with a car you were not used to driving, get over it and move on

PS I have had a word with the big man upstairs, and your right, history can't be re-written, funny that you thought that I thought it could..........

Kingo

PPS. Its still a manual, of sorts

[konakid]

HOWEVER when the lever is moved to 'Easy Drive' (just like you do in a torque converter auto) then the computer takes over and makes all the gear changes. Whether you like it or not that is AUTOMATIC. YOU MAY BE IN DENIAL ABOUT IT BUT AUTOMATIC IT IS.

No need to shout, get yer caps lock off, I can read suprisingly well in lower case

In denial, Hmmmm could be in denial about a lot of things but believe me, MMT is not one of them, I'm not trying to defend or explain how MMT works, it has been done to death, I just smile to myself at your automatic mode and how wound up your getting, maybe you should devout a little more time to driving an MMT, you would then feel the benefits of driving a manual car with automatic type features, and you would also feel the difference in your pocket with the suprisingly less fuel you would use over a full automatic. You just had a bad experience with a car you were not used to driving, get over it and move on

PS I have had a word with the big man upstairs, and your right, history can't be re-written, funny that you thought that I thought it could..........

Kingo

PPS. Its still a manual, of sorts

HERE HERE PARTS KING.... (sorry forgot i had my caps on then, lol) oh and as dealers go i take my comments back about trusting them in your case , you sound like a rear honest ish one and you certainly a font of toyota knowledge.. that toyota god everyone keeps mentioning on here must be looking down on you...

HAPPY 2008 everyone..